Loxone : DMX vs KNX

563 views
Skip to first unread message

Alex501

unread,
Jan 20, 2021, 9:49:23 AM1/20/21
to Loxone English
Very confused at the moment and would like to know what others on the board think. 

Option 1 : Loxone miniserver : knx switches / sensors : Dmx relays 230v dimmers : low voltage cc and cv dimmers

Option 2 : Loxone miniserver: knx for everything else !

Problem with Option 1 is it brings the cost down but most kit Chinese and from what I can tell with mixed results. House installation needs to be as stable as possible and in the event you move out can be run/serviced by a knx engineer. 

Also Option 2 provides a migration pathway out of Loxone if Loxone becomes more closed.  

any thoughts appreciated.
Alex

Jonathan Dixon

unread,
Jan 20, 2021, 12:06:40 PM1/20/21
to Alex501, Loxone English
A few quick thoughts-
Option 1 and 2 both provide a migration path out.

I started out with cheap chinese DMX dimmers, they're OK but just before starting commissioning I found the http://www.whitewing.co.uk 16 channel  DMX dimmer and 2 of these are making me really happy.

Also, in the very end I have a bunch of constant current LEDs that work well with DIN mount dimmers 

An alternative to KNX sensors/switches is to use Loxone Tree (or cheap momentary) switches, but design your wiring that it could be repurposed to other protocols if needed in the future. I used CAT6A specifically so I'd have spare cores everywhere, and I'm very happy with the result.






--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to loxone-englis...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/320656d5-4fc6-48e9-9463-20c10fa2589fn%40googlegroups.com.
Message has been deleted

Duncan

unread,
Jan 20, 2021, 3:00:28 PM1/20/21
to Loxone English
how have the whitewing dmx dimmers been ? can you answer the following please ?
how are they with gu10 bulbs? 
any problems with low loads eg 1 or 2 bulbs?
how low can the dimming go and with which make of bulb?
how smooth is the dimming? eg any flicker

thanks
duncan

Alex501

unread,
Jan 20, 2021, 4:49:57 PM1/20/21
to Loxone English
The whitewing dmx dimmers are available now  http://www.whitewing.co.uk/acdim.html not sure re pricing tho. I think Joth got a bit lucky there. 

I guess Option 1 gives you a knx > dmx gateway pathway. Adds 1 more layer of complexity but something you can live with. 

@Joth which constant current Leds and din mount dimmer did you go with.  Ive spent a good chunk of today trawling though the net to put this together


Duncan seems to have tried most of them.  

Jonathan Dixon

unread,
Jan 20, 2021, 5:36:34 PM1/20/21
to Alex501, Loxone English
I'm using 2x D4C-L (3x 350mA CC). I should have gone for their D4C DIN mount version had I realized they existed.

I also have 2x 24 channel 24V constant voltage dimmers for  LED strips etc.


Unfortunately with covid limits and decorators everywhere I've only had very limited chance to really test things like fade rates and bulb compatibility on the mains dimmers, but we'll be in in a month or so and get more real feel for it all then.
 


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/baffff71-38d1-40a2-87b2-95fde72dbc9cn%40googlegroups.com.

Rob_in

unread,
Jan 21, 2021, 1:43:50 AM1/21/21
to Loxone English
On Wednesday, 20 January 2021 at 15:49:23 UTC+1 Alex501 wrote:
Option 1 : Loxone miniserver : knx switches / sensors : Dmx relays 230v dimmers : low voltage cc and cv dimmers

We have a DMX extension controlling EldoLED Lineardrive drivers with 24v LED spots (MR16 form factor) from Voltus. Very happy with how all this works. Flicker free dimming right down to zero.

Most of our outside lighting (garage/driveway/floods) I didn't bother making dimmable so just ran relay controlled 240v LEDs.

IMHO you shouldn't bother trying to dim a 240v lamp. Make anything you want dimmable low voltage.
 
Option 2 : Loxone miniserver: knx for everything else !

If you have the $$$... sure, why not?

Although there should be more DMX hardware options for lighting control than KNX. If you ever migrated away from Loxone, DMX is it's own separate standard so say you end up with a KNX logic controller to replace a Miniserver... you'd just get a KNX -> DMX gateway. Or if you ever end up with another type of logic controller it would be the same story.

Robin

Alex501

unread,
Jan 21, 2021, 4:37:23 AM1/21/21
to Loxone English
Hi Robin which eldoLED drivers are you using they seem to come up between 50 and 70 £ each on google. Also with the MR 16 spots is it 1 channel per spot or can you connect them in series. 

Duncans idea of DMX cv drvier > SSR >  240v  seems quite elegant. But from all the rest of the Loxone kit the relay extention is one of their more affordable units.  Which relays did you use ?

SRS lighting dmx relays coming in at around £15 per channel. They have NO / NC variants. 

PXM.pl have a lot of nice dmx gear including dimmers but no idea on pricing.  Made in Eu (poland) so hopefully should be quality gear.

KNX ... I was surprised but the actuators are not that expensive. Haven't  looks at ETS yet .

8 channel meanwell from voltus £150 = £18 per channel 


TheBen do a nice 240v dimmer too £50 per channel range.

Have not looked into the KNX stuff much yet but these were just the things that popped up.

Duncan

unread,
Jan 21, 2021, 5:05:35 AM1/21/21
to Loxone English
the only reason i suggested the dmx>SSR (zero crossing) is to avoid damage to the loxone relays, particularly switching led lamps due to the high inrush currents - you could of course use external coupling relays but they are bigger and noiser when specced for the right inrush current

when i bought the SRS dmx relays they were only £130 each but quite expensive now - i used them for 240v manifold actuators centrally but if i was doing it now i would use CV dmx dimmers directly driving 24v actuators, one channel driving a 240v SSR for the motorised valve/pump and another dmx>0-10v for the manifold blender control (all local to the manifold)

Flux

unread,
Jan 21, 2021, 7:09:45 PM1/21/21
to Loxone English
I agree with @Rob_in, I have exactly the setup ,   DMX extension controlling EldoLED Lineardrive drivers with 24v LED spots (MR16 form factor) from Voltus, powered by Meanwell Contsant Voltage 24v supplies.
 The downsides being that the mr16 spots from Voltus are imo expensive, and I have to date yet found a suitalble cheaper  replacement. (help)

 Saying that the first test spot I bought six years ago is going strong, and i have yet to replace any other bulb

Flux

Rob_in

unread,
Jan 22, 2021, 1:24:27 AM1/22/21
to Loxone English
On Thursday, 21 January 2021 at 10:37:23 UTC+1 Alex501 wrote:
Hi Robin which eldoLED drivers are you using they seem to come up between 50 and 70 £ each on google. Also with the MR 16 spots is it 1 channel per spot or can you connect them in series. 

They are LINEARdrive 180D. TBH, we could have got away with a 100W version as the max calculated load on any one of them is 90W. Dunno why I didn't do that, maybe the 100W variant is new or couldn't find it.

Anyhow, yes, you can connect strings of spots in *parallel* on each channel. As we have single colour spots that means 4 rooms per dimmer, each room having between 2 and 6 spots in it.

 

We have KMTronic Modbus relays. I paid 38EUR each so that's 4.75 per channel.

KMTronic are based in Bulgaria and these modules have performed flawlessly (this says they are 12v, but if you ask, they will tweak them for a 24v supply):

https://sigma-shop.com/product/153/rs485-8-channel-relay-controller-modbus-rtu.html

KMX and DMX relays are all over AliExpress & co. for peanuts pricing if you don't mind cheap Chinese relays.

TBH, if doing this again, I really like the look of that Weinzierl 570 multi IO KNX which can be used to drive din rail relays:


Robin

Alex501

unread,
Jan 28, 2021, 8:37:57 AM1/28/21
to Loxone English
The Voltus  Constaled look good but are BUX! i saw some phillips master MR16 24v but cant find them online again . Did you try any other ? 

There are a lot of Led downlights on the market right now even in screwfix / toolstation  but a lot of these work @ constant current . There is a really nice one from BB light English manufacturer and also fire rated . But runs at 350mA @ 9 watts so a voltage drop across each is about 25.7V  ... 6 spots in a room and you have 154VDC  and i cant find anything that drives that much voltage.  Might open another thread re that  

I had seen the Weinzierl 570 mini and really like the concept / architecture. Also the blind actuators .  But the relays are expensive 40£ ish so would add up quite quickly. Also looked at Birkoff and Wago ethernet I/O but came out of that rabbit hole LoL ... at least with DMX and KNX both solutions are tried and tested in the loxone community. 

Rob_in

unread,
Jan 28, 2021, 11:10:47 PM1/28/21
to Loxone English
On Thursday, 28 January 2021 at 14:37:57 UTC+1 Alex501 wrote:
There is a really nice one from BB light English manufacturer and also fire rated . But runs at 350mA @ 9 watts so a voltage drop across each is about 25.7V  ... 6 spots in a room and you have 154VDC  and i cant find anything that drives that much voltage.

Drive them in parallel. No way you want high DC voltage in your design.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages