Motorised Roller Blinds

[Robbie]

Hi All,

I've only just thought to ask about this here.

I'm looking to add some large roller blinds over our rear sliding doors (4.5M x 2.7M of glass). These doors only have 20mm between each pane of glass, so I would ideally like a gap of less than 20mm between each blind - which is challenging to find.

The obvious choice would appear to be Loxone SOLIDline Air tubular motors inside some custom made blinds. So far I've only found one place here in the UK that have experience of building these motors in to blinds, Cassidy Sunblinds. But they tell me that the SOLIDline motors extend quite a bit, meaning 30mm from end bracket to blind fabric edge - effectlively giving me a 60mm gap between blinds.

Luxaflex tell me that they can offer motorised blinds with only 23mm bracket to fabric edge at the motor end and only 11mm bracket to fabric edge at the non motor end (allowing a gap of only 22mm). They offer the following suitable control options:

• 24vDC motors, direction controlled by switching polarity. - I already have twin CAT5 in place from the Miniserver to the blinds location.
• 230vAC motors, one input for up, one for down. - I could use a Nano IO Air to switch each blind.
• "PowerView system can work with a remote control and/or a hub linked to you WiFi router that then allows you to control the blinds from an app on you phone or tablet. The Loxone system can be linked to the  PowerView hub using http API. See attachment." (Which I'm totally confused about, but could be the best option.)

Has anyone else added motorised roller blinds to their Loxone system, or know of blinds that allow a very small gap.

I'm interested in any suggestions, advice, or observations on the above.

Robbie

[Duncan]

how many panes make up the full windows/door? im guessing that you could use 2 blinds with the motor wider brackets at the outsides, recessed into the window reveals if necessary, leaving the non-motor brackets to meet in the middle back to back.

ive done this with a pair of 2.4m wide by 2.5m drop blinds over a 4 panel glass opening - 2 outer fixed pieces and 2 inner opening doors.
some of mine have a slight gap but for downstairs sun screening this doesnt really represent a problem and when the sun is at an angle to a window he light goes through the tiniest of gaps anyway.  in the bedrooms i recessed the brackets into the windows reveals at both ends to get a good light seal and used blackout blinds to make sure the bedrooms get dark enough

i used a welsh company called decorquip who custom make everything to your measurements (so its your responsibility when it goes wrong!) you will have to make your own calculations about the blind width and how much to allow for the brackets.

they do blind material with a variety of light transmission but high heat blockage, so i have used 5% light transmission and it screens effectively but still allows me to see features of the garden/view

they are cheap, robust and well make and i used their 240v motor which has included wireless remotes and a 4-wire low voltage control - this can be controlled from loxone but requires 3 relay/switched outputs per blind and a 240v feed and 4-core or more cable to each blind motor.

[Robbie]

Hi Duncan,

Three panes, each approx. 1.5m wide. So the ideal is three blinds, but the centre blind motor will widen one of the gaps.

I have considered two blinds (a 1.5m & a 3m) so that the one gap can be the only no motor ends.

I have run 2x CAT5 to the shadow gap above the doors, as well as a 13A socket  in the shadow gap. So 4 wire low voltage control is useful, but needing 9 relays rather than 6 is a pain (would prefer individual control).

Since I posted, I have found that Duette blinds are only 5-6mm from the fabric edge to the bracket, allowing a gap of around only 11mm, but they are considerably more expensive than rollers (and don't look as minimalist as a plain flat roller blind). Something else for me to consider.

[Duncan]

i was committed to my blinds at the design stage due to the massive cost savings, wired and wireless interfaces and wide range of blackout and light permeable material, so incorporated appropriate wiring at build stage.

i have used dmx relays for the blinds - each dmx block has 12 x 2a relays - perfect for signal control and only around $30 for each block of 12.

[Keith Emerson]

Hi Robbie,

I have two Louvolite blinds on my rear patio doors. The fabric gap in the centre is 30mm (see pic). You might just be able to squeeze that down to 20mm by pushing the rollers in to the limits of the spring plungers but this may make installation more difficult. At the two motor ends there is a gap of 25mm from the edge of the bracket to the fabric but you could reduce this by chasing the bracket into the wall a little. The Louvolite blinds are very quiet (in my opinion) and the roller diameter is smaller than that required by the Loxone ones. With the size of your blinds you may require the torque provided by the Loxone ones. I belive that their motors are designed more for shutters rather than blinds but I could be wrong.

Keith

[RSin]

I haven't installed yet but came across these guys

http://www.beckermotors.co.uk/

motor only so you have to find fabric and something to weigh down the bottom

got quoted ~£200 for 5500mm x 2300mm drop

[RSin]

@DUNCAN
Is it the voluto blind motor you used? Why did you choose this over the mechanico?
Also I'm struggling to see the benefit of the 12v dry contact separate cable compared to running 240v 4 cores ( or 2x T&E). Is it because the amps are so low you can get away with a CAT cable, and serve 2 blinds? What current does the dry cable pass?

Cheers
Richard.

[Duncan]

Yes it's the voluto. You can't use cat cable for mains power so each blind needs a permanent 240v supply. The 240v motor contacts are not directly usable so you need cat cable or similar to control the blind using the dry contacts.

[RSin]

sorry Duncan I've mixed my wording. What I mean is the mechanico (£40) has 1x4-core cable control. The voluto (£70) has 1x4-core cable 12v control plus 1xT&E power i.e. 2 cables. So what's the benefit of the voluto? Easier install? Cheaper on relays? Its quieter? What am I missing?

also I ask about the amps in the 12v cable because I know when I looked at the tech data for my rooflight 24v control I calculated that I needed 0.6mm2 which is more than a cat cable, 0.25mm2 in my case. I guess the point is that if the cat cable is man enough then you can run 2 blinds worth of dry contact from 1 cable making the cable run easier. Is that the only reason to choose voluto over mechanico?

cheers again

[Duncan]

the mechanico would be the obvious choice for loxone but:

you need a 55mm tube diameter miniumum - which may be far too big for small-ish drops - i had built-in recessed blind casings designed around the 45mm tube/100mm overall diameter
because
its very noisy compared to the voluto

i bought samples of both and tested before completing the build

the voluto control isnt 12v though -  its a true dry contact system which has 4 cores - a common, up, down and stop

each function has to be connected to the common as an impulse to work, so connect the up to common to go up briefly, but it will keep on going up until it hits the end-stop or you connect the stop to the common. there seems to be no way to override this functionality, ive asked the company and experimented with keeping various of the cores connected but it doesnt work any other way.

in practice this means you need 3 relays per blind to give full control, 2 for just fully up or fully down. i used very cheap dmx 12v 2a relays as i didnt have enough loxone relays available for my 14 blinds.

[RSin]

Great. cheers duncan.

FYI Mechanico Motor is 64dB.  The Voluto Motor is 55dB I've just found out. 

[Duncan]

the mechanico has a lot more vibration as well as noise