Loxone Beginner

[Dara]

Hi All,

I'm a former electronic engineer and now an IT worker.

I am building a new home and would like to use Loxone. I'd like to install myself along side an electrician.

Why don't Loxone have a configurator where you say what you want in each room and it tells you what parts you need?

Where is best to understand how cabling should be done? Are there any sample schematics? I see some people saying do everything in 24v and just use cat7 for lights etc. Where is best to get guidance on this?

Would like to buy an mini server along with some bits and pieces to get learning, what should I be looking at buying?

Thanks in advance

Dara

[Andrew B]

I think Loxone is promoting their training courses in lieu of having a "configurator".  Besides which, such a configurator would be a lot more limited than all the wild possibilities that the miniserver supports!

As for cabling, I used normal gauge house wiring rather than trying to power lights over cat7.  Even with LEDs, that's a lot of power to put through cat7 and the voltage drop across the width of a house is going to be significant.  Regular house wiring has the benefit of being cheap.  Plus you could switch to using mains voltage in the future, if it becomes necessary for some reason.  I did use cat6 for the wall switches, however, because only a 1-2 cat6 runs are required to each wall box (depending on how many buttons and whether you have indicator LEDs).

[Markus Freese]

Hi Dara,

Loxone does have a planning spreadsheet that might get you some of the way there. You can download the "Loxone Project Planner" at the bottom of this page https://www.loxone.com/enus/support/downloads/. As Andrew mentioned, you still have many different options, so you will have to make a few decisions along the way (Air vs Hardwired, DMX vs Tree Dimmers, Line voltage vs low voltage lighting, etc.)

As for wiring, there is some info on their site as well to get you started: https://www.loxone.com/enus/?s=wiring.

To start learning, you could pick up one of their demo cases: http://shop.loxone.com/enus/demo-case.html

[Dara]

Great thanks for the info. I am going to use Loxone for lighting and security to begin with.

Have you configured it for controlling your heating? I will be installing an air source heat pump with UFH.  

Also what happens when the mini server fails? Do people buy 2 and keep a spare?

[Dara]

That's excellent, thank you very much.

I presume I can just take the mini server from the case and install in my house when ready?

There really are endless decisions and possibilities.

[Andrew B]

Having a spare is something I haven't bought yet, but will eventually. For all the devices in my system. If you don't have a spare, loxone and FedEx will work together to get you a replacement (at a cost, obviously).

I use mine for lighting and HVAC. Eventually I may use it for interfacing to things like solar pv, EV charging, and standby generator management.

[Seb]

Hi Dara, it is strongly recommended against using cat7 for lights. Just use normal twin and earth or 5 core if doing RGBW spots. Also don't forget about voltage drop over distance http://www.solar-wind.co.uk/cable-sizing-DC-cables.html

[David]

Hi, yes you can take the bits from the demo case and use in your set up. Just compare the cost of buying the components you will use individually to the cost of the case.

Agree with all others use mains cables to lights, and cat cable to switches.

Have fun

[Kevp]

In the UK you should use minimum 1.5mm2 cable for 24vdc lighting.

[Peter]

Why 1.5mm

[Andrew B]

See the calculator link above in this thread. If you're using 12-24 DC and up to about 6A and your distance is only a few meters, it'll tell you to use AWG17-18 (about 1.5 mm^2). If your runs are longer, it'll tell you AWG 14 or thicker (2.5 mm^2 or more). Wire that is too thin has too much resistance and causes a significant voltage drop (and generates more heat). Since efficiency is the goal, more copper is a good thing. I used standard AWG14/2 mains wiring so potentially using it for normal mains voltage AC in the future is possible, it's cheap and plentiful, and it minimizes voltage drop. My downlights supplier has a nice system of clip connectors and AWG18 which I used between the lights on a single circuit (14/2 back to the driver board), and that worked out well.

[Kevp]

Why 1.5mm, It's electrical regulations in the UK, and like Andrew says you won't get far with small cored cable.

It is really worth working out each lighting circuit current draw and specifying the correct cable.
I also concur with Andrew with using 6242Y cable for lighting as then you have the option of returning to 230v if it is ever required.

On another note... How is the project coming along Dara?

[Peter]

Kev.
I ask because 24v wiring was discussed at length on another thread (mostly because I was asking daft questions). This is the first time anyone has stated 1.5mm is required by UK wiring regs. Can you quote the reference from Part P regs please? 5 core 1.5mm wire?
I would argue that as long as you've done the calculations you can use whatever is suitable. As suggested by Duncan I've moved my power supplies closer to the actual lights to resolve the current conundrum.

[Kevp]

In the 17th edition,

Reg: 715.524.201: The minimum cross-sectional area of the extra-low voltage conductor shall be:

(i) 1.5 mm2 copper, but in the case of flexible cables with a maximum length of 3m a cross-sectional area of 1 mm2 copper may be used.

So yes minimum 1.5 mm2 unless all your entire house lighting is located in your plant room!

What is your question regarding the 5 core 1.5 mm2?

[Simon Still]

I considered carrying a spare miniserver (in fact on my original order I ended up with two by mistake) but in the end thought it wasn't worth tying up the money. (Touch wood) I've yet to hear of any miniservers failing. Most issues seem to relate to SD cards.

I think one of my extensions has a digital input that doesn't work but I didn't bother doing anything about it - I'd got enough spares i just left that one unused.

[Simon Still]

Re Loxone for controlling heating. Lots of people do this. However, my assessment was that it was a lot of work and expense to get a system that would still not any better (and quite possibly worse) than a manufacturers own.

Worth remembering that the aim is home *automation* not home control - getting to a place where a system works with only rare or minimal human interaction rather than something you adjust 3 times a day but from your smartphone rather than a control on the wall. We've just gone through our second winter in my newbuild and this year the extent of my interaction with the heating system was to switch it on in October and off in March.

I'm guessing you area either building a house from scratch or doing a major renoavation if you're talking about UFH and heat pumps. It makes sense to insulate and airtight to beyond building regs in which case your heat requirement becomes minimal and you can take an unconventional approach (for the UK, though common in Europe). My (Viessmann, gas) boiler is controlled solely by a 'weather compensating' controller with a single extrernal temperature sensor. This varies the flow temperature to the UFH based on the outside temperature (when it's colder outside the house needs more heat input) with the UFH circulating water continuously (actually it shuts down if its over 13C outside). The UFH water is only ever a few degrees above the room temperature - I think it gets to about 27C when its sub-zero outside. This means you get a very even inside temperature without overheating.

There are only two heating zones - downstairs with concrete floors and upstairs with wooden floors (so needs slightly higher flow temp), There are no motorised valves and no room stats. It's working well though I've actually turned off the flow to the bedrooms as they stay warm enough without extra heat input.