NFC tags - game changer?

[TomM]

Having just received the marketing email from Loxone re the new NFC smart tags, is this a complete game changer for things like basic access control? http://shop.loxone.com/enuk/nfc-smart-tags.html

The major drawback I can see thus far is that configuration is client side only, I assume this may well change in the near future though.

Any other drawbacks that I should be aware of?  I have ordered a pack of them so look forward to playing with them asap.

[I don't consider being Android compatible only a drawback as we're fully invested in Android and not Apple but other's may well be in a different position]

[smartbusinesstools.be]

I just updated the app on my HTC One phone and Nexus 9 tablet and did a few quick tests using a Mifare Classic 4K card.

Some things to consider if you want to use this as your (only) access control system: 

• you have to switch on your phone first for NFC to work
  
• you have to unlock your phone first for NFC to work, unless you activate the Android Smart Lock. (This seems not to be working on my HTC One. It does work on the Nexus)
  
• it works fast if the Loxone App is active or running in background with an established connection to the Miniserver. If not, it takes about 5 seconds after reading the token before the action is executed.
• everyone who needs to be able to unlock the door (the kids, the cleaning lady, colleagues, guests?) must have
• an NFC enabled phone
• a network connection to your Miniserver (i.e access to your LAN via Wifi ,or remote access from the Internet)
• an account on your Miniserver
• the miniserver and you do not know who opened the door: the tag is associated with an action that you have selected in the user interface (similar to the task recorder). It's a shortcut to opening the app page and pressing a button.
• there is some security risk: anyone has access to the tag and can read it using an NFC enabled phone. Another tag can be written with the same information and used with your phone at a remote location to unlock it and open your front door

Also the tag created by the app on my phone was not accepted by the app on my tablet. Not sure is this is a security measure or a problem, or because I'm using a Mifare rather than an NTAG tag.

On Monday, January 18, 2016 at 5:35:w2 PM UTC+1, TomM wro

[sk]

Why would you want these bright green tags on your walls? A smart home is one that is subtle with technology in my opinion, not an advert for loxone.

Here is my list of waiting extra items that would have been more useful than smart tags.

1. Loxone air Wireless window contacts for heating and rain protection.
2. Geofencing in the app. Enable lights as you drive home, enable heating when you leave work etc. + family members notification e.g. When they are home.
3. Customisable iOS and android notification screen shortcuts
4. Weather compensation from weather service direct to heating controllers. E.g temp drop in an hour increase heating

[smartbusinesstools.be]

Some more things to consider if you want to use this as your (only) access control system:

• you won't be able to open the door when your phone battery is empty.
• you would either need to obligate everyone in your family (or employees at work) to only purchase NFC enabled Android phones in the future, or later-on replace you access system with a self-contained system. Note that only about half of the Android phones have NFC and there is no guarantee that the technology is here to stay. My wife e.g. just got a One Plus 2. It has high end specs but it does not support NFC, so she would have to purchase another phone.

I only see this as adding convenience to a backup solution: if you have a badge reader on the wall and forgot or lost your badge, then you can still open the door using the app on your phone. The 'Smart Tag' just speeds up this process (and adds a show element), so some people might use it as their primary method to open the door. That might work for yourself if you live alone, but would be difficult to impose on others. A 'smart home' does not mean you must do everything with a 'smartphone', but it should make things simpler and automated.

Now for any other function inside the house that does not require authorization, for which you would put a tag on the wall because you need that function fast and frequently, like selecting a light scene, it would be more convenient to add a push button, which does not require an Android phone to trigger the function, just a finger. It could however by useful for any function that requires your authorization via the app, e.g. like switching on the TV so kids can not watch when you don't want them to: this would add speed and convenience.

[Simon Still]

I'm struggling to see any use or benefit for this myself (pretty much why NFC hasn't taken off in any significant way despite the tech having been around for years).  

It feels like it's something pretty cheap and simple that the Loxone dev's played with that they've put on the market. 

Presumably for Access control purposes you'd also need to have reliable Wifi outside your house - my newbuild with foil backed insulation and some steel framing is very good at preventing any wifi leakage.  Even immediately outside the front door appears to be a deadzone but even if it wasn't there's a bit of a delay in picking up your LAN when you arrive.  

[sk]

I think the assumption is that where you don't have wifi you would remote connect via the external link.

[Anders Windsor]

I can see NFC being cool for some things, but can you use any NFC-tags for this? The bright green ones are a bit extreme.

[TomM]

Good to hear everyone's opinion on this.  I haven't been able to test yet as my existing MiFare tags aren't write compatible so I'm still waiting for the 'bright green' loxone versions.  I'm actually not that bothered by their appearance as I plan to make then as discreet as possible by hiding behind keypads, inside cupboards etc but here's the plan thus far for their usage:

1. Behind each keypad to provide quick access to room screen

2. one on the rear of the TV remote which will set the room lights to 'TV mode' as we're forever changing to that and working through the app is usually slower that walking to the KP (and i don't want to get up from the sofa!)

3. One by the front door (painted over to match the frame) which will switch the lights on inside (useful until geofencing is available - which I'm convinced will be).

4. One discreetly placed to provide access through the garden gate and activates external lighting - will be interesting to see if this is quicker than using the current MiFare / 1-wire solution

5. Possibly I'm going to use a series of tags inside a kitchen cupbaord that will allow instant switching of AV in the most popular ways (e.g. radio to TV etc.

Now, there is no doubt that all of these could be achieved using a keypad or similar however as we've minimised keypads and number of buttons on keypads these are useful to provide similar functionality in locations that don't already have keypads or aren't suitable to have them.

As soon as I have some experience with using them (including the family's feedback) I'll report how we get on.

[Simon Still]

>2. one on the rear of the TV remote which will set the room lights to 'TV mode' as >we're forever changing to that and working through the app is usually slower that ?>walking to the KP (and i don't want to get up from the sofa!)

I like this idea...

>3. One by the front door (painted over to match the frame) which will switch the >lights on inside (useful until geofencing is available - which I'm convinced will be).

I've been working on this today.  Do you have a sensor on the front door?

I've set up the hall light switch (near the front door) as a multi click.  Triple click sends 'all lights off' and switches the Operating Mode to 'All absent' (ventilation system on low, hot water recirc off).  This has a 10 second delay do that you're not plunged into darkness before you leave.

Quad click does this but also enables presence simulation

Opening the front door switches the house mode back to 'at home' and, if it's dark, switches on the hall lights. 

(the signal from the front door is disabled for 30 seconds after movement is detected inside the hallway so that opening the door to leave is ignored).

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[TomM]

Simon,

I don't have a sensor on the front door (original 100+ yr old door and frame that I don't want to mess with and don't want wireless bulk on it).  I do have PIR immediately in the hallway but we have found instances where the PIR takes 5s to trigger lighting in the hallway (this is a PIR design feature as a Pet tolerant device) so i want a method to get lighting on asap.

With regards to use-cases that I'm getting real life usage from, the NFC sticker on the rear of the remote has been used several times over the weekend and has been approved as a 'nice feature' by the wife.  No further use-cases have been implemented thus far.

Question: does anyone know if there are any non-Loxone NFC stickers available out there that are compatible?  i.e. is there a more cost effective way of purchasing this tags

[Bayden]

On Tuesday, 19 January 2016 11:18:54 UTC+13, sk wrote:

Why would you want these bright green tags on your walls? A smart home is one that is subtle with technology in my opinion, not an advert for loxone.

you can use any NFC tags, in any colour. you can also paint over them 

[Peter van Es]

Any MiFare Ultralight NFC tag using the NXP NTAG 216 would work. In small quantities however (<500), they'll always cost around €0,80 - €1,50 each. The cheaper ones are paper stickers. The app programs a short URL into the tag when you configure it. 

Op maandag 25 januari 2016 14:14:31 UTC+1 schreef TomM: