Presence Detection

[Ewan Tait]

Is anyone using the Presence Detection function block?

I have started using it as the desktop app can be used to keep it active. Handy when I'm working from home. However, it doesn't consistently turn the light on if presence has been active for a long period of time.

Presence has been active in the room since 13:17, but despite the light level dropping, the light won't turn on automatically. In instances where presence has not been active for such a long time, the light does come as the light level drops.

Cheers,

Ewan

[Rob]

I suspect it may be to do with one of the timing parameters of either the motion sensor or the presence block.

Curious as to why you have connected Mv to the IAct input as that's generally for "non-Loxone" type inputs, like standard door contacts. The usual way to use the motion sensor in the presence block is to link it within the block itself by going to the assign objects "cog" on the bottom right of the block.

Incidentally, Hugh has a short explanation video on YouTube on how to configure presence using the presence block.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTvh3c6TAFI

[Ewan Tait]

[resending to the group rather than just replying to Rob]

On 24 Feb 2021, at 17:48, Rob wrote:
>
> I suspect it may be to do with one of the timing parameters of either the motion sensor or the presence block.
>

In the Family Room, where I have a similar setup:

Presence was active from 15:58 on Sunday and the light came on automatically at 16:57. MT and TH are both set to 1800s. The QPr output was on constantly.

On Saturday, Presence was active from 12:17, and at 15:25 the light level dropped below the Alb value and fluctuated in a general downward trend until about 16:40 when I gave up and turned the light on manually. The QPr output was similarly on constantly.

> Curious as to why you have connected Mv to the IAct input as that's generally for "non-Loxone" type inputs, like standard door contacts. The usual way to use the motion sensor in the presence block is to link it within the block itself by going to the assign objects "cog" on the bottom right of the block.
>

When I was setting up a presence sensor in the Family Room a few months ago, I initially configured it as you suggest above. However, I had a whole host of problems as I want to reset Presence when turning the light off, and ended manually configuring the sensor into the inputs. Just re-tested by assigning rather than using the inputs and the problem I thought I had at that time seems to have disappeared.

> Incidentally, Hugh has a short explanation video on YouTube on how to configure presence using the presence block.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTvh3c6TAFI

Thanks; I hadn’t seen that.

Cheers,
Ewan

[Ewan Tait]

I now have the motion sensor assigned to the Presence Detection function block. I've also connected AQPr output to P input instead of QPr (the documentation shows PBin in the screenshots, but there's no PBin output, and the video showed the live preview with an analogue output as per AQPr).

Presence was active from 12:00 and the light didn't come on despite the P input showing as "On" as per the live view below.

If I do a simulation, it all works fine.

 

Cheers,

Ewan

[Jonathan Dixon]

Hi Ewan

Did you make any further headway on this? I've started adding Presence blocks to rooms to manage other automations (blinds, heating, music..) and trying to hook them into the lighting controllers does seem to have some weird edge case behaviours. (I upgraded to v12 during the rework so now of course not entirely sure which change was due to which).

What I'm finding is the if P (Presence) is already high when DisP (Disable Presence) goes low, the fact there is already presence active is totally ignored and the automatic moods don't take effect until the next fall and rise of P. i.e., we have to leave the room for TH seconds and re-enter for the lights to come on.

Worse: it also seems that if an automatic lighting mood was already active (e.g. if DisP previously went low for a short time then high and is now falling a second time) the falling edge has the exact opposite of desired effect and actually turns the lighting controller to its OFF state, rather than allow the existing auto lighting state to continue or selecting the appropriate new auto state.

 I see you used QPr rather than AQPr to drive P. Any specific reason? My impression was the AQPr is the most powerful/flexible so I've been using that by default. (Per docs "This output can be used on all presence and motion sensor inputs of other blocks" - and it encodes more state so seems to give other blocks the most to work on).

Be interested if anyone has had more success with this, before I revert back to exclusively using the Mv input on lighting controllers

Cheers

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[Ewan Tait]

Jonathan,

The problem I detailed in this thread was an issue with my coding. I have code to turn the lights off when the light level increases above 35lux (so I don’t have to turn the lights off manually in the morning through winter!), but if the lux dropped below 35lux level, then increased above 35lux, it sent a pulse to the R input on the Lighting Controller, and if P was active, it would no longer switch the light on when the light level dropped back below Alb (more of an evening problem in the inclement weather we’ve seen recently). Not entirely dissimilar to the issue you described below. I fixed it by only allowing P to be active on the Lighting Controller if the light level was below 35lux.

I’ve just posted on Loxone’s own forums as I still can’t get Presence to work as I would expect.

https://www.loxone.com/enen/question/presence-sensor-and-lighting-controller/ but copied further down.

I’ve gone back to basics to try and figure out how to turn the lights off and then re-enter the room. Not as straight forward as you might hope!

First of all, I setup my family room as recommended by Loxone:

When I come into the room, the light comes on as expected. When I leave the room I can double-click the switch to turn the light off. However, presence remains active for the full TH value (currently set to 900s) so if immediately I come back into the room, the light won't come on.

It makes no difference if the Touch is assigned to the Presence function block or not.

So to work round this, I am triggering the reset on the Presence function when the light turns off:


However, the Presence Sensor itself sometimes (but not always) remains active. And if it remains active, then motion won't trigger the Presence function block and the lights won't come on. I have also tried the RQ output to the R input and that doesn’t help.

If I connect the Presence Sensor Motion and Volume inputs to the IAct and IExt inputs rather than linking the device to the function block, then resetting it works consistently. But that then begs the question as to what's the point in assigning the Presence sensor to the function block as recommended by Loxone.

It didn’t seem to make any difference whether I used the QPr output or AQPr output to the P input. The P input is digital though, so I’m not sure why Loxone suggest connecting an analogue output to it.

I can't decide if I'm missing something, or if Loxone are assuming that you never turn your lights off and then immediately re-enter the room!

I would go back to Mv, but I wanted noise to keep the lights on, as otherwise they go off when watching TV.

Cheers,

Ewan

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[Ewan Tait]

On Wednesday, May 26, 2021 at 9:24:41 PM UTC+1 Joth wrote:

What I'm finding is the if P (Presence) is already high when DisP (Disable Presence) goes low, the fact there is already presence active is totally ignored and the automatic moods don't take effect until the next fall and rise of P. i.e., we have to leave the room for TH seconds and re-enter for the lights to come on.

 I decided to test the latest Beta, 12.1.5.20, and if P is active and DisP is active, then if DisP goes off as P remains active, the light will come on.

Cheers,

Ewan

[Jonathan Dixon]

Hi Ewan

I keep meaning to say thanks for sharing this as I'm looking forward to exactly this fix.  I've been holding off on getting into Beta testing at this point, hoping that 12.1.5.20+ will graduate to general availability soon, but no sign yet. Does anyone have an idea what the lead time usually is for the beta->GA release process?

Aside- I had my first SD card failure yesterday - it was the original 4+ year old Loxone card, very strange failure mode, I changed IP DNS settings (to enable my Tempest weather station as the weather forecast source via Loxberry - really nice integration that by the way) and it strangely lost ability to set the correct Timezone -- it  kept defaulting back to Vienna. I tried a bunch of different measures to correct it, but in the end restoring a backup to a new SD card did the trick.

Anyway, point being I'm now more hesitant to get into beta testing on my live system, having felt the slight panic that I had anticipated I would when the whole system needed restoring

Cheers

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[Ewan Tait]

On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 2:23:48 PM UTC+1 Joth wrote:

Hi Ewan

I keep meaning to say thanks for sharing this as I'm looking forward to exactly this fix.  I've been holding off on getting into Beta testing at this point, hoping that 12.1.5.20+ will graduate to general availability soon, but no sign yet. Does anyone have an idea what the lead time usually is for the beta->GA release process?

They've moved to Beta 3 now, but I can't help with lead time to final release of 12.1.

Going back to my previous problem:

If I reset the Presence function block, the P input from the Presence Sensor remains active and the Presence function block won't reactivated. I've had a chat with Loxone support via their Helpdesk and it seems that this is working as designed. As such, I'm using the Mv input to IAct and the Vma input via a greater than to the IExt on the Presence function block instead of assigning the sensor. That does what I want it to do! Namely, if I leave the room and turn the light off, I can reset the Presence function and then if I return to the room, the lights will come on automatically without having to wait sensor to time out.

Cheers,

Ewan