Loxone Tree (and their strategy)

[Simon Still]

An interesting product release - there is now a (proprietary) bus topology to add to the original simple star and (proprietary) wireless device options.  

Loxone's product strategy seems to be shifting again - what do other people think?  In the wake of the Revolv shutdown http://www.siliconbeat.com/2016/04/05/google-reaches-out-and-shuts-off-customers-home-products/ I've been thinking about this again.   I'm also planning another install at the moment and undecided as to the best options. Loxone's unclear future direction and expanding product line makes me wonder whether any of their current products will be dropped at some point.  

Original

- Star wire to central point

- switch 24v (so compatibility with generic switches, third party 24V sensors etc

A key advantage for me was that this offered a (relatively) easy migration path in the long term future.  No company or technology line lasts forever and this meant Loxone could be removed and replaced with something else without too much disruption.

Air  

I can see how this enabled them to enter the retrofit market and it also offers easy expansion on a wired install - I've used an IO Air in one place, a few Air sockets and an IR Air.  If Loxone became unavailable these wouldn't be huge loss.  

Tree

I can see it would make wiring a good deal simpler but relies entirely on proprietary Loxone products.  Would the wiring topology be easily migratable to KNX?

[smartbusinesstools.be]

Hi Simon

I was just writing this when I saw your post about the same subject, so I'm pasting it here:

Loxone has introduced their new Tree bus system. My first thought is that it likely uses the same protocol stack and mesh routing as Air, which is based on 6LoWPAN, but wired vs wireless. 

It offers a similar tree wiring topology as KNX. Since many Loxone customers are using KNX as the standard bus to interconnect light switches and a wide range of devices (with Loxone as a central controller for easy configuration, integration and visualization), many people will wonder whether Loxone has plans to remove the KNX interface in future versions of the Miniserver or continue to support it as is.

The main advantage of Tree is that it is easier to configure in the Miniserver. You don't need ETS to configure the devices. The is bus is faster, but I don't think speed has been an issue with KNX. Unlike the KNX bus, the Tree bus does not supply power to devices, so it requires 4 wires (vs 2), unless devices have a local power supply.

The major disadvantage is that it's a proprietary protocol at this time, resulting in vendor lock in, limiting the devices to a single vendor, and making it harder to change. I hope this will change in the future, and Loxone can/will adapt their implementation of 6LoWPAN and this wired version to be interoperable with other vendor's products.

If they continue to offer a KNX interface, then we are happy with the new bus for now, possibly adding more/better functionality.

[smartbusinesstools.be]

Tree

I can see it would make wiring a good deal simpler but relies entirely on proprietary Loxone products.  Would the wiring topology be easily migratable to KNX?

You can use the tree wiring topology for KNX, but it might be expensive because you would need to replace all devices on the bus with KNX devices.

My bet is that there will be an IoT wired (over 2 wires) and wireless de facto standard in a few years that many vendors will support, with mesh routing so a tree topology.

For any new houses and industrial buildings, we always choose KNX as a long term solution, with (we think) a migration path.

For very small installations we might as well use the Loxone Tree bus and devices now for simplicity and lower upfront cost.

[smartbusinesstools.be]

Talked to Loxone about it and this is what they say:

- the KNX interface is here to stay: Loxone wants to be 'open' to offer integration with other protocols and their devices

- the Tree bus is an addition to offer a simple solution (consistent with Air), with easy installation and configuration, and a more complete closed loop e.g. with a consistent mechanism for (alarm) status messages from devices, and with encrypted communication.

The Tree bus is based on the CAN bus.

Cheers