LED Spot RGBW Tree UK

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Seb

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Apr 6, 2019, 6:51:29 PM4/6/19
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Hi,

Having just laid the new "tree" wire for a kitchen I thought I would wire up a couple for the new UK RGBW tree spot [1] to gauge how many I would need. I purchased 12, expecting to use 9 in a ~4m x 6m room with 2.6m ceilings. However, I received one hell of a shock, as the beam is too narrow (38 deg) and they are far too dim! Considering what they cost I am severely disappointed!! Has anyone else used them?

The only reason I went fo the RGBWs over the WW [2] was to play, but looking at the spec the WW may be no better. I have 6 of the PWM RGBW [3] Spots in a room and they are great and have ave 120 deg beam and a way brighter than the new ones. But the tree version of those are £90 each - and that is a rip off!

So having played (spent too much), it seems that Loxone are not suited to affordable and useful lighting, as those spots are not, as they say, "Exceptional colour and warm white light" or "Perfect in any room" unless you have 3m+ ceiling and one spot every 1m! - which is a real shame. I think will be doing the rest of the house will be 3rd party WW spots at 240v (~£10 each with a fire rated hood) and putting the RGBWs in the kids rooms. sigh

If anyone has recommendations, that would be really useful before I start cutting holes :o)

[1] https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/led-spot-rgbw-tree-uk/
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Peter

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Apr 7, 2019, 3:21:10 PM4/7/19
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Wow thanks for sharing Seb, was considering using Tree spots for our own kitchen. Your kitchen is in a very similar state to our own, even down to the lath nails in the joists!!
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David Wallis

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Apr 8, 2019, 3:43:26 AM4/8/19
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Be interested to know what you end up using as I am still unsure whether to do 240v or 24v - 24v seems non existent in the uk with conventional size spots.. I 'think' i'll probably just use DMX dimmers on 240v - I have actually got one, but never tested it.. probably should!

David

On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 11:51:29 PM UTC+1, Seb wrote:

RSinn

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Apr 9, 2019, 2:35:23 AM4/9/19
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Spots are exactly that, they give a spot of light and aren't really intended for spreading light... despite the fact that everyone uses them for that! The smaller angles are good for effects like washing down walls to give triangles of light - all my spots are 300mm from a wall and mix them with pendants and led strip. The really wide angles will give a washed out lighting design. Try using different lights to create an impactful lighting design. Perhaps led strip uplight onto the ceiling which turns a big block of ceiling effectively into a downwards diffused floodlight, then some spots for task lighting over the sink, hob and prep area. Add a couple more spots washing the fronts of some kitchen cabinets. Think about stratification. 4-5 levels in height. Ceiling uplight, spots on walls, led under wall hung units, floor standing lamp, led under plinths etc.

If you really want to play with it get dialux software to give you an idea.

FWIW I went for 230v dmx because of the larger number of bulbs that fit a GU10 (cheers Duncan!)

Rob_in

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Apr 9, 2019, 3:19:53 AM4/9/19
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Hi,

IMHO that is a bad idea. Why try and control a 240v AC supply when controlling a 24v DC supply is so much easier (ie. likely cheaper and more efficient)?

We have 24v EldoLED LIN180D DMX dimmers driving Votus LEDs that fit in standard spot holders. We chose 60 degree, 2700k LEDs which are warm, but not overly so and produce a nice spread - very happy with the light they provide. Voltus now do RGBW and tunable colour temperature in the same form factor.

As our house is small I installed the dimmers in the cabinet and wired to lights using screened, 5 core 1.5mm2 cable. This way an upgrade to RGBW, running DMX or other bus on some of those, or even going back to 240v would be possible. That said, the drivers are designed so they can be installed in-ceiling/wall if that's what you want.

HTH,

Robin

Andras

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Apr 9, 2019, 7:50:03 AM4/9/19
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I have gone down this thought road as well when planning my solution. I ended up using central power supplies and Loxone RGBW dimmers with Voltus spots and LED stripes. Wanted to avoid side effects of 230V dimming. For me the +15-20€ price delta was worth is for the simplicity and robustness (eg: uncertain future of DMS with Loxone) of the solution and also for really nice colour temperature controlled lights.

John Verdicchio

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Apr 9, 2019, 1:02:18 PM4/9/19
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Voltus 36€ per bulb! + the transformer. People must have money to burn. Or £3 for a dimmable GU10 240V. Have I missed something?

Rob_in

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Apr 10, 2019, 1:45:21 AM4/10/19
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How much is a 240v AC dimmer versus a 24v DC dimmer?

David Wallis

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Apr 10, 2019, 3:40:37 AM4/10/19
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Duncan

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Apr 10, 2019, 4:16:45 PM4/10/19
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I’m sticking to my dimmable gu10 bulbs which I can afford to replace as technology for SSL improves. I’ve just replaced some gu10s with Philips latest bulbs which have a cri of 97 and r9 of 70 for around £7.50 each with a wide range of angles and K, and their dimtone bulbs have a cri of 90 and 2700k dim to around 1800k for £5 each I did dump my mains dmx dimmers though because of regular but unpredictable failures and used Knox dimmers at around £50 per channel.

Rob_in

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Apr 11, 2019, 2:07:36 AM4/11/19
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While I don't mind buying non-mission critical, low voltage stuff from AliExpress I certainly would not trust a 240v dimmer from there. For our main install I wouldn't buy anything that couldn't be ordered from Europe. I also think it's crazy to dim a 240v AC supply. Personal preference, it's OK to disagree with that.

The solution I described works perfectly for us and I'm very happy with it. When I was pricing things up DMX extension + ELDOLed dimmers plus 24V Voltus LEDs compared favourably with a non-dimmable solution using a Loxone Relay extension just switching a standard 240v circuit with regular 240v LEDs. Of course I never considered anything ordered direct from China.

If you want to do something different that's cool.

David Wallis

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Apr 11, 2019, 2:43:31 AM4/11/19
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Agreed, I will probably go with KNX dimmers for anything 240v - I just bought a 4ch dmx and a 2ch mains to have a look at them and test, the quality inside the mains one isnt too bad either - however component quality could be suspect - or it could be just off the same production line as anything else made in china but sold in europe.. 

I don't mind the thought of using low voltage and agree around the efficiencies of dimming low voltage - its just a bit worse in terms of cabling - unless all led and the lack of 24v LED GU10s sized bulbs (I know GU10 is the mains version, I just cant remember MR?) is a sticking point as I am then limiting the choice of light fittings that the wife can look at, hence is prob going to have to be mains.. 

David

nick@UniQhome

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Apr 13, 2019, 6:12:21 AM4/13/19
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I have used these in a couple of rooms and do not find them dim at all, I can’t look at them directly and I certainly wouldn’t call them dim. They appear to be at least as bright as the Pwm spots. The dimming performance is really good. And I really like them, the warm white is a lovely colour temperature and of course you can adjust this, they don’t suffer from the slight strobing effect that the Pwm ww spots as the Pwm frequency is 400 Hz. I haven’t noticed the beam being that narrow as a problem but this widens to 120 degrees using rgb. We don’t have any 230v spots upstairs it is entirely 24v and will in time replace all 230v gu10 spots downstairs with these.

Seb

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Apr 25, 2019, 5:46:32 PM4/25/19
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So I’m three lights and a 10amp psu down, but when I get it working I will drop a post, looks quite good so far.

However, there does look to be a build issue with the lights. Of the 12 I ordered, 5 had a green mark around the face. Managed to clean 4 of them, but one I just can budge the last bit. Loxone are replacing it, but suggest you check them.

Also, if you have fat hands like me, a 76mm hole works with them.
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