Whole home lighting with DMX?

[Skarsol]

Is that possible? Seems the vast majority of the available DMX lights are fancy stage lights or LED strips. Are there just standard 6-8" downlights that could be DMX controlled?

[BartVB]

First hit in Google for 'DMX downlight':

http://www.coloronix.com/1/product_cat/recessed-rgbw-lighting-downlights/

:)

But I don't know if affordable is also a requirement? I'm planning on using 24V DMX constant current dimmers with standard 24V LED downlights, that seems to be a much cheaper (and easier to maintain) solution. But you need to be able to place the dimmers, preferably somewhere close to the LEDs.

[TomM]

Hi, DMX lighting isn't as complex as it may first seem - all you need to do is adjust your thinking slightly.

DMX does not control "lights" as such instead, what is really does is control dimmers and relays which can have any suitable load connected to them.  All lighting in my house is DMX controlled, including 240V LED downlights, normal pendants & chandaliers and 12V RGBW LEDs - it all works fantastically.

You can run any DMX controlled dimmer unit, wire back standard 240V lighting and connect from there.  Personally I have 2x 12/4 NJD 12 channel 240V dimmers running the lighting that I want to be reliably dimmed (because its a good quality dimmer with a reasonable dimming curve) and a bunch of Soundlab 4 channel dimmers running lighting that I never want to dim (e.g. the utility room, downstairs toilet etc) - this is because this particular dimmer has a terrible dimming curve but are cheap as anything.

With regards to RGBW LED lighting, you can buy the dedicated stuff from Loxone which is good quality but expensive or you can buy any RGB or RGBW LED strip from China via eBay and connect it to a DMX RGB LED controller (again from china/eBay).  You can connected LED strips remotely, really easily using Cat5/6 cable from the controller to the strip - i have some running over 50m away from the controller via a cat6 cable, no problems whatsoever.

Now, here comes the really interesting bit.  Why not start to think laterally about how to use DMX controlled dimmers and relays?  They are just sources of power (dimmers) and switches (relays) after all, so I have a whole bank of DMX relays running my heating for example.  e.g. a pair of 12 channel relay runs all the motorised valves, manifold actuators, UFH pumps, boiler switch line and even a coupled high rating relay runs the immersion heater in my system.  I also have extractor fans run by dimmer channels (regulate air flow in the bathrooms based on temperature & humidity) and electronic locks given 12 volts off a spare channel from the LED controller.

DMX is a highly robust control protocol that was designed for stage lighting but there's no reason not to use it for domestic lighting and additional control.  Compatible equipment is very affordable, especially on the second hand market so get stuck in - once you've got your head around the concepts its pretty straight forward.

[Skarsol]

Yeah, those Coloronix units are the only ones I've been able to find, but I don't really need full RGBW and I'm kinda scared to call the "local" distributor in CA for pricing. :P

Thanks for the writeup Tom, that helps a good bit. So pretty much any load can be DMX controlled, but I'm still kinda stuck on sourcing LED downlights that are bigger than like 2" though. I did find these guys (http://www.ledwaves.com/products/pr15-ultra-thin-led-recessed-light?variant=1156190004) and I've sent them an email to see if they'll sell the light without their driver, and then I presume I can wire them up to a DMX dimmer and be good to go. I think. :P The 12" limit between their driver and the light worries me though, are those wires 40 gauge? :P

[TomM]

Skarsol, just use a standard 240V GU10 fitting and then buy a good quality dimmable LED bulb.  Connect this (or mutliple of these) back to a DMX dimmer and you've got yourself a DMX controlled lighting channel.

(you;'ll notice I buy everything from either eBay or Amazon - low risk, good prices)

dimmer = http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191691482108 (anytronics is a high qaulity dimmer)

dimmable LED GU10 bulb = http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281689008531 (i have these - they're ok but you get what you pay for, you can pay up to £15-20 for a high quality dimmable LED bulb, all down to your personal price sensitivity of course)

GU10 fitting = literally anything as long as its fire rated!

[Skarsol]

So there's no benefit to doing all the 240->LV conversion in one place instead of doing it at every bulb? I figured it would be more efficient/cheaper, but I guess that's not the case. Thanks! :)

[TomM]

I hope not - we've just installed 120 GU10 fittings across the house!  (maybe someone with more in depth electrical knowledge would be able to advise though)

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 8:58:02 PM UTC+1, Skarsol wrote:

[Duncan]

in theory there is value/logic in doing 240v to lv at one place (efficiency for one) but then all your wiring has to carry much higher current, require expensive power supplies and currently there is a severe lack of good low voltage house lighting that is not rgb(w) and very little of it is interchangeable without messing up your ceilings

integrated led fittings are quite expensive and you cant separate the light source from your choice of fittings - you would have to have a stock of spare light fittings because you are unlikely to get an exact replacement in 2/3/5 years when one or more fail.

240v leds are improving so rapidly that it makes sense to dim the 240v via dmx or loxone dimmers centally (or partly distributed at several points), and use standard light fittings with your coice of retrofit dimmable bulbs - as technology develops you can replace the bulbs cheaply and easily whilst keeping your fittings for the life of the property.

the currently bulbs around 400-600 lumens have good colour rendering ra>80, reasonable dimming (most of them anyway) for £5-10 per piece. Even the most expensive soraa gu10 with a ra of 95 is currently only £25-30 each and is likely to have significant competition in the coming years or so.

[Duncan]

unfortunately the 12/4 NJD 12 channel 240V dimmers are no longer available in the uk - i  have 4 and they are faultless, but the importer wont order more despite me nagging them , and wont give details of their supplier for me to go direct to the manufacturer in china.

im currently using some 3 channel 1A trailing edge 240v din rail dimmers from china that work well, and at 220w per channel are fine for groups of led lighting , they can be got from around $45 per 3 channel unit but not easily in the uk

[TomM]

ha!  I too have contacted NJD about this and know a couple of others who have as well.  I cannot believe there isn't enough demand for them to import another batch?!  Just have to keep an eye on eBay.

I have a 12 channel Soundlab dimmer that i'm going to test out sometime soon - 19" rack case and all - reportedly much better than their cheapo 4 channel dimmers which are useless as dimmers (fine as switches though).  I'll report back findings when I get a spare few minutes.

Otherwise there's always an assortment of second hand DMX dimmers on eBay, you just need to choose the right ones to bid for.

[Klaus Rosenkilde]

Hi
I am also looking into start using DMX to control Led rgbw lights.
I currently have x10 dimmers for all lights, but my current x10 dimmers can handle led lights.
With DMX control there seem to be of the shelves controllers pc programs that can control everything my question is what can I use for normal operation without a compute or Wi-Fi remote, like normal switches in each room by the door eg. to turn on the lights

[Duncan]

Klaus
im not sure what you are asking - dmx devices need to be controlled by a dmx controller - in our case that would be loxone with a dmx extension, but otherwise it would be a stage light controller (standalone device) or computer controlled such as dongle on a pc, or other computer device with programming software that connects inputs/switches to dmx commands, like openhab

i use a standalone lighting controller with sliders to test my raw dmx installs which cost around £40 - connect the controller device to the dmx bus /wiring and select which channel to dim, then sliders will dim the lights so its a quick and easy way of testing the dmx addressess, wiring, dimmers/drivers and light fittings. once everything is tested then reconnect the dmx bus back to the loxone dmx extension and test your configuration

ive got 4 njd 12/4 dimmer blocks spare - they are new but unboxed, and 1 used but working one as well if anyone is interested
duncan

[jackal077]

Hi Duncan,

Do you still have the Njd 12/4 dimmer blocks? what is your asking price? Are they din rail mountable?

Regards,

Pat

[Duncan]

Pat,
yes i still have them - there are 4 of the flat rectangular box versions, and 1 of the hex profiled version.

they are quite large and suitable for wall mounting, but are not din mounting and are too large for an enclosure, but each one is a compete enclosure in itself with multiple cable in/out points

someone has more than 10 new ones on ebay for £230 each inc postage,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NJD-DPX12-4-Wall-Mount-12-Way-DMX-DJ-Performance-Club-Stage-Lighting-Dimmer-Pack/332032339136?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41415%26meid%3Dbf224c12ffcb48b1af09ba49b5c24fb2%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D9%26sd%3D131258158735

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NJD-DPX12-4-Heavy-Duty-Wall-Mount-12-Way-DMX-Dimmer-Pack-NJ942/371744708041?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41415%26meid%3Da814986612ff44e2a8e8f44efc7a6cff%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D332032339136

make me an offer

duncan

[jackal077]

Duncan,

Sorry for the late reply. I was looking more for din rail mountable. Do you have any din rail mountable in stock? 

[Duncan]

njd didnt make any din mountable dmx dimmers

they can be found, but i dont have any other than my reserve supply of the chinese 3 channel ones such as:

http://ledlightingsave.com/index.php/leynew-dmx302-triac-dimmer-3-channel-led-controller.html

[Alan]

Hi

I've been considering my options regarding lighting and dimming for a little while and really like the flexibility that DMX allows (along with the dmx extension), I was just wondering how a unit like the NJD would fit into a 'normal' home electrical installation. Is it stand alone? or is it protected by the Consumer Unit first? Would I simply run a single circuit, say for the living room back to this DMX unit and another for the hallway...etc etc. I'm thinking in terms of a standard consumer unit and how you'd protect the various independent lighting circuits to comply with UK regs? 

Thanks

Alan

[Duncan]

each njd dimmer is a freestanding box (wall mount) that would have a single 240v feed from a circuit breaker (rcd protected with current uk wiring regs) in the consumer unit - it then has upto 12 outputs, each of which feeds a separate lighting circuit so for example 3 circuits for the lounge, 3 for dining room etc etc

more than one dimmer block could be fed from a single consumer unit rcd circuit if required, and there are other wall mount dmx dimmer packs available since the njd is difficult to find now

there are 2 drawbacks with the njd - 1) its physically big, has its own case and is not din mounting, 2) its only leading edge dimming, so doesnt play nicely with some dimmable 240v leds

i agree fully that whole house dmx makes a lot of sense but its not that easy to find 240v trailing edge dimmers,except for that cheap chinese 3 channel model i linked to earlier

an alternative is knx dimmer blocks which run in a very similar distributed bus way, but cost at least £60 per channel, or using 24v dmx (loads of dimmers, but very little choice in affordable high quality 50mm light modules or complete 24v downlights)

[Alan]

Thanks Duncan

Very informative as usual. It really is a conundrum, based on your comments though perhaps some of the cheap leading edge DMX dimmers would be worth a try initially. 

Cheers

Alan

[Duncan]

the cheap chinese dimmers (3 channel) are trailing edge, so play nicely with dimmable led bulbs, and they are small and din rail mounted so fit into your cabinets. they do have a relatively high rate of initial failure (the internal dc power supply fails), so its worth ordering some extras to keep as swap-outs, but once you get past the inital failures they seem to be fine.

[Stefan L]

Hello,

Thanks for the tips...
Exactly what I am thinking of doing as I want to run a little music / stage corner and outdoor lighting combined with the home system. DMX is more cost efficient anyways so why not use it everywhere.
Two Challenges
1. What App is best for home use? Like for wife and kids. (I may integrate to Elan as I got my hands on some Elan HW)
2. How do you solve the need for (cheap) switch panels in each room. Just forget about it? I looked into using the 1006 from pathwayconnect.com but I am not sure it will work they way I like. Also it seems you have to set what value as to what controller get priority instead of the value from the most recent input... Is that correct?

[Duncan]

for the app, i assume you are talking about controlling the loxone install - in which case use their own app, and use appropraite users and groups so when they are logged in not as admin, they only see the controls to adjust lights etc rather than the full system. my default user login can adjust lights and blinds and use a heat boost function, but cant changed the heating schedule etc

a separate config user sees the stuff that might be set up by a new house owner such as heating and vent schedules and some of the more detailed stuff, and finally admin gets everything.

i dont understand your question regarding 'cheap switch panels' - do you mean an interface for rooms, or actual switches?

as for the pathway stuff im not sure you really need any of it - the 1006 appears to be a 0-10v to dmx converter which you wouldnt need

 for dmx whole house loxone control, you only need appropriate dimmers for your lights and 1 or 2 dmx extensions (depending on the size of your install) and depending on how distributed your dmx dimmer are, a dmx splitter

i have 1 dmx extension doing the mains dimmers and dmx relays for heating and blinds, and a 2nd doing the low voltage stuff, including all the external garden lighting. - i use a dmx splitter so each dmx cable going outside has its own separate cable from the dmx splitter - that way you can have a branched system and each garden branch wont effect the others if it gets damaged or fails.

[Stefan L]

The idea was to use DMX directly (No Loxone) and use the Pathway bridge to enable control from regular wall switches or any switch (not the 0-10V)
Also an APP on DMX like http://vibriolighting.com/

I now see that the Loxone (Touch) switches are not that expensive at €46
So for lighting with DMX what you need from Loxone is
Miniserver 500
DMX Extension 276
A Number of Touch at 46 ea
Thats is it? Maybe a power supply?

I wish the Elan system had some affordable switches as I have some Elan audio gear I want to use...

Thanks again for the advice! Stefan

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 9:58:02 PM UTC+2, Skarsol wrote:

[Duncan]

i think you will run in to difficulties having 2 dmx controllers - the loxone server and local dmx master switches - i would suggest that you just use loxone and its dmx extension with whatever switches you fancy.

the problem with switches is that they are very subjective, and in the case of loxone ideally need to be retractive.

im not a fan of their switches, particularly where there are multiple buttons that have no icons or labels - there are altneratives that are prettier and can be engraved such as the tap-5 ones with built-in temperature sensor
https://www.faradite.com/collections/all/products/tap-5-matt-white

if you want a system that has local direct control as well as loxone, then some knx switches and dimmers/relays would be the way to go - if the miniserver goes down you still have direct control and the loxone app knows the state of the devices when its been changed locally, but its relatively complex to set up and requires a knowledge of knx and a license for the ETS software.

[Stefan L]

You are probably right, it may not work well with more than one DMX controller... I am learning :-)

The price of the wall switches are about the same as a used iPhone 5 in reasonable condition so perhaps one should skip the switches and just use iOS or Android devices.

The added functionality would be almost endless... You could call to each room.

On Monday, September 14, 2015 at 9:58:02 PM UTC+2, Skarsol wrote:

[Andrew B]

Surely you’re not considering foregoing hardwired wall switches entirely? All the fancy stuff fails or is painfully slow and annoying. And it relies on batteries. We use our simple wattstopper dry contact switches 99% of the time.

Also, the Loxone DMX extension works but it’s pretty weak. Low refresh rate (20 Hz instead of 40?) and limit of 128 channels. I custom wrote my DMX control solution (on a $50 ARM Linux device along with a ArtNet to DMX bridge from DMXking.com), but there may be off the shelf solutions out there. Such a solution does lend itself to using some of the “show control” software that is available, but be forewarned that most of those packages that I’ve looked at are amazingly crappy or extremely oriented toward theatrical production.

[RSinn]

Andrew, have you got a write-up of your solution? I'm pretty sure I'm going to spill over the 128 so if yours has more channels and a better refresh rate I'd be interested. Thanks.

[Andrew Brownsword]

Just what is splattered about this google group.


Here is a (lengthy) summary:

I’m running Linux on an ARM SBC (wandboard or odroid are my tools of choice, but RPi could do), and I’m writing a C++ application (since I’m a c++ programmer by trade). My system is based around Ethernet — I’m using the SBC, the Loxone miniserver, Elexol I/O devices, a DMXking DMX/ArtNet LeDMX4Pro, 1-wire sensor hubs from Embedded Data Systems, and an energy monitor from Brultech. Oh, and obviously a pair of DIN-rail Ethernet switches are an essential part of my system. The DMX drivers themselves are a pair of 32 channel PWM devices which unfortunately aren’t for sale anymore. I run low voltage DC from them through the house to LED fixtures.

My software handles the Elexol I/O, which includes inputs from the wall switches and outputs that drive HVAC relays. It also pulls out the sensor network data and parses it from the EDS and Brultech devices. And it uses a simple protocol with the Loxone miniserver (picoC on the miniserver) that lets me keep virtual inputs up to date, plus use virtual inputs to send user inputs to the SBC. I also log all the state to a time series database and use Grafana to provide access to it for the user. An SBC with SATA ports and an SSD helps (ODROID HC1).

I’m gradually moving all my logic off the miniserver to the Linux SBC — the Loxone environment is constrained and limited by the programming methods they choose, plus it isn’t a very powerful computer compared to the 4-8 ARM cores plus GPU smartphone chip based SBC. Eventually I plan to use the Loxone for nothing more than their app, and even there I’ll also be able to use Apple’s Home app instead, once I’ve gotten around to HomeKit integration. If I like Apple’s GUI better I may eventually remove the miniserver entirely.

Back in October I tossed the Loxone DMX extension and installed the DMXking device. I added basic ArtNet support to my application, which wasn’t too challenging as the parts of the protocol I need to support is just the data update packet. The harder parts were calculating nice fade ramps (which isn’t really that hard, just a bit finicky). Even so, it was only 1-2 days of programming. Because my controls already went through the Linux device this changed reduce my control latency noticeably, the DMX refresh rate makes for better ramping, and now I can support tens of thousands of channels if needed. As an added bonus this DMXking device can record shows to its own sdcard (useful for vacation mode), and it has four drivers for pixel addressable LED strips (which I’ve bought and have played around with a little — lots of fun, and which is why I now have the opinion that most DMX control software out there sucks). The DMXking device is configurable in how it handles ArtNet packets from different sources, so I can have iPad apps controlling my pixel strips without interfering with the DMX universe that controls the house.

> On Apr 1, 2018, at 3:58 AM, RSinn <richard....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Andrew, have you got a write-up of your solution? I'm pretty sure I'm going to spill over the 128 so if yours has more channels and a better refresh rate I'd be interested. Thanks.
>

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[RSinn]

Cheers Andrew, I suspect this may be a bit out of my depth! Are you planning on publishing any of your code? Thanks.

[Andrew Brownsword]

On Apr 2, 2018, at 2:13 AM, RSinn <richard....@gmail.com> wrote:

Cheers Andrew, I suspect this may be a bit out of my depth! Are you planning on publishing any of your code? Thanks.

Yes, I wasn’t advocating anyone to pursue my approach (although if you’re a software engineering type and thusly inclined, I maintain that it works quite well).  I’m not planning to publish my code, at least in the short term — once I’m “happy” with it then I might consider doing something with it beyond my house, but haven’t put much thought into that yet.  Have to get the HVAC logic out of the Loxone “graphical language” and into a sane programming language first.  The 5 pages of spaghetti “wiring” is pretty awful and it doesn’t do half of what I want to do, even before I start to get really fancy.

For less crazy individuals though, the actual code that just sends channel values to an ArtNet controller (like the DMXking) isn’t very complicated and if you’re comfortable in picoC, I would speculate that the miniserver is powerful enough to execute it at at least 20-40 Hz (which is the typical SPS cycle rate, IIRC).  There is only 1 kind of ArtNet packet that needs to be send via UDP to the controller.  This isn’t much picoC code, and the bulk of the work is taking the floating point values from the miniserver and stuffing them into this packet as 0-255 byte values in the DMX Universe array.  You can probably do that as 1 line of picoC for each channel you have.

The C struct is given below, and all the values except Data can be hardcoded for a given installation.  If you look at this without fear, you could probably get this working.    :)    I’m happy to answer questions and look at posted code to help spot bugs, etc.

#define NUMCHANNELS 512 /* max of 512 channels in one Universe */

struct ArtDmx

{

char ID[8];

unsigned char OpCode[2];

unsigned char ProtVerHi;

unsigned char ProtVerLo;

unsigned char Sequence;

unsigned char Physical;

unsigned char SubUni;

unsigned char Net;

unsigned char LengthHi;

unsigned char Length;

unsigned char Data[NUMCHANNELS];

};

I would suggest that you write the picoC and test it between your miniserver and your PC (just use wireshark or equivalent to capture the packets you’re sending so you can verify that they look right).  If your miniserver can run your program fast enough, then you can buy an ArtNet controller (such as one of the DMXking ones — I’m not pitching them, I’m just very happy with one I’ve got and they’re only about US$150).

[Stefan L]

Thanks Andrew,

Great input!

Yes I was considering skipping the regular switches and try out using a phone or tablet on the wall with permanent power.
I agree that there may be a headache at some point but if you have to spend as much for a switch as on a phone/tablet  it is hard to motivate a simple switch. Except for an emergency panel or 2. Elan panels are expensive.

About the DMXKing product
It sounds like "in theory" you could have a number of controllers because the DMXKing separates the DMX signals.  one iOS device per room? Wishful thinking I Imagine... And there would be no central control.

When can you deliver that DMX interface in a box? :-)

[Skarsol]

I'll second Andrew on using the Wattstopper dry contact switches. Having a switch in a form factor that people are used to using is a huge benefit. With a 2 pole paddle switch, everyone knows how to turn the lights on and off, but you can still add fancy functionality using long presses and multiple presses. In most locations, the 5 switch plates are super overkill. In our install, I found that even in most of the locations where I planned for 2 switches, I only used one and put a blank plate in the other. Now, if you're wanting a switch that controls lights *and* music or something else like that, then more buttons might start being more useful. Plus, they're like a third of the cost of the Loxone Touch ones.

Also, we've had no issues on the refresh rate of the Loxone DMX extension, but we're not doing anything super fancy with it.

[Andrew Brownsword]

Yeah, that’s a really important point.  In two years I’ve never had anyone so much as hesitate in figuring out how to use the lights.  And they’re willing to experiment with push and hold, double tap, etc.  With good programming the switch behaviour it really natural.  Note that I don’t use the built in loxone switch logic.

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[Stefan L]

You are talking about LAN connected Wattstopper switches, right?

[Andrew Brownsword]

I’m not.  I’m a believer in dumb switches, and putting the smarts in a central location.  I ran cat6 from each wall switch position to a central location closet, and I ran the lighting wiring the same way (albiet 14/2 not cat).  That lets me change the switches, light fixtures and the central system without having to change the wiring in the walls.

Given the 30-40 wall switches in the house, I didn’t want that many smart devices (to pay for them or worry about failures).

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[Skarsol]

Here's the exact one we used (switch and supplier): https://www.westsidewholesale.com/wattstopper-dcc2-w.html

[Andrew Brownsword]

I used the same ones that Loxone resells — https://www.legrand.ca/wattstopper/lighting-control-panel-systems/lighting-integrator/accessories/lvsw-100.aspx

Most of mine are 2-button (which I use to control 1 circuit — on/off, brighten/dim, whole room on/off, and a few other functions), a couple of 1-button ones (toggle 1 circuit), some 3-button ones (scene controls), and a single 4 button (master bedroom whole house control).  All my switches are wired to Elexol IO72 and IO24 inputs (80 inputs total at the moment).  In hindsight I should have skipped the single button ones and just bought another Elexol input board so I could support them as 2-button, but hey… hindsight is 20/20, and I may still swap them out some day which won’t be too hard because I home ran all the wires.

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[Andrew B]

>>About the DMXKing product
>>It sounds like "in theory" you could have a number of controllers because the DMXKing separates the DMX signals. one iOS device per room? Wishful thinking I >>Imagine... And there would be no central control.

In a system like I describe there are three roles. One is the device which creates the ArtNet packets — I would call it the master. It decides what levels all the channels are at. The second is the device that receives the ArtNet packets and generates the DMX serial protocol signal — the DMXking devices fill this role. The third is the DMX driver, which systems on the DMX serial bus and listens to some number of channels and uses that information to drive the fixture to produce light (or motion). There are a large number of different kinds of drivers for different kinds of lights, but they can all sit on a daisy chained DMX bus (or multiple buses if you have a controller that has multiple buses, or multiple controllers on the Ethernet).

Given this, many topologies are possible, depending on your objectives. The DMXking devices, in particular, can accept packets from multiple masters and apply one of a couple of strategies to combine the requests from the multiple masters. Personally I’m a fan of centralized control which has global knowledge because then you needn’t worry about how to combine conflicting signals. Alternatively you could assign a different Universe to each room, but then you’re buying a lot of devices.

[Jedi Tek'Unum]

I also agree that dumb switches and central control is the best approach. I'm building a new home and almost all my switches are going to be Wattstopper LVSW and DCC.

I'm jumping the gun a bit here but I've been developing a set of hardware to do all the switch interfacing on one side and ethernet on the other. I've done a couple of iterations of the boards and have what I expect to be the last. Just working on assembly and need to verify before I publish the details on my web site. Anyone will be able to order the empty PCBs on OSHPark and build your own.

There are 3 boards in the design. All designed to be mounted in standard 72mm DIN carriers (one can also be mounted with simple/cheap DIN clips).

Board 1 - an adapter board which holds a NanoPi NEO (a NEO 2 should work as well) (in USA NanoPi NEO are available from ARMWorks for $15 (also need $3 heat sink at a minimum). The NEO is a quad-core 1.2Ghz ARM with 512MB memory and ethernet. I've been prototyping with Linux although, with a bit more work, FreeBSD is an option too (and a transition I will be making). Of course the I2C bus connector is all that needs be complied with to substitute Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone Black, or anything else.

Board 2 - a TCA9545A I2C 4 bus multiplexer.

Board 3 - an adapter that holds two SparkFun SX1509 I/O expanders, opto isolators, and small spring terminal blocks. Each of my boards has 32 channels designed so that half are input and half are output. Designed specifically for Wattstopper LVSW interfacing with 24VDC. The SX1509 is a really nice device - half of its I/Os can be configured for very smart LED control with fade/dim/blink/etc. So each of my boards can take 16 switch input and drive 16 indicators. Up to 2 of these boards per I2C bus (only 4 SX1509 per bus). With the bus multiplexer board it can scale up to 8 of these boards for 256 pins, 128 switches and 128 indicators. One could ask why not just put the SX1509 chip on my board and one would be right in questioning that - until you look at the package for it, a tiny QFN SMD chip! The SparkFun modules are so cheap - and even cheaper from asian sources - that its just not worth the grief.

All are designed so that the NEO can pull the reset line and it goes all the way through everything. Interrupts are collected up to a single pin on the NEO and I've already prototyped the interrupt coming all the way up to userland application. Of course the application then has to scan the I2C devices to figure out where the interrupt(s) were generated from. That's important so that with a large system it doesn't have to constantly scan many switches which could affect responsiveness.

Its then up to the imagination how sophisticated the switch software is and what ethernet output is generated and to where. Loxone or directly to a DMX converter.

With your custom software this could do a lot of cool stuff with switch input and indicators. Besides the typical things - debounce, hold, double/tap, etc - you could do things like use a LVSW as a mode selector for the behavior of a DCC as well as things like chords (multiple simultaneous button presses).

Note I said your custom software. Like Andrew, what I have now isn't suitable for publication and won't be for a long time, if ever (its based on a large body of proprietary [to me] code that I have no intention of releasing at this time). But I will briefly document some hints how to talk to the hardware from userland.

I'm probably a couple of weeks away from publishing the schematics and sharing the PCB on OSHPark. I'll announce on a thread here when it happens.

[Skarsol]

Why did you decide to go the roll your own route vs using something like the Elexol boards to interface?

[Jedi Tek'Unum]

On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 8:26:45 AM UTC-5, Skarsol wrote:

Why did you decide to go the roll your own route vs using something like the Elexol boards to interface?

I have an Elexol io72. Its not bad (although dated with its Java interface) but not enough. While it is cheaper than Loxone I/O, it still gets pretty expensive for a large setup with isolated connections. I wasn't looking forward to the many screw terminals either.

Most of all, its really just a dumb I/O to ethernet. More sophisticated behavior requires further processing elsewhere. Either within Loxone (which would be horribly tedious to do) or yet another node like Andrew has done.

I suspect I will be driving an ethernet to DMX module directly from it. Or maybe even develop an I2C to DMX adapter and not even go over ethernet.

Underlying it all is that I've had it with half-baked commercial products. Its entirely possible that over the coming years I will completely replace my Loxone with my own design.

[Andrew B]

Looks like excellent work, Jedi!  Have you worked out estimated costs per pin?

And no, those screw terminals aren't much fun.  There are worse things though.  My ideal interface board would actually mount RJ-45 connectors since all my wires are cat6 ending with an RJ-45 connector.

BTW, that Java interface hasn't caused me any problems and all it costs Elexol is a bit of firmware space and a minimalist TCP stack.  I pretty much never use the Java interface anymore so it is basically moot once you've configured the board.

FWIW, I prefer Ethernet because it is pretty much ubiquitous and programming interfaces / models for it are everywhere.  Its biggest drawback is higher power consumption, however we're still talking about a tiny amount of power compared to pretty much anything else in the house.  It offers essentially unlimited length cable runs (unless maybe you're living in Buckingham Palace), WiFi APs connect to it directly, is fully switchable and routable, is ridiculously fast, has basically unlimited addressability, and a whole lot more.  It is so incredibly convenient to be able to connect to any device from any device, and then be able to reconfigure your network to partition it virtually for security access control.  And these advantages are not just theoretical -- I take advantage of all of them regularly.

[Jedi Tek'Unum]

On Tuesday, April 3, 2018 at 11:08:19 AM UTC-5, Andrew B wrote:

Looks like excellent work, Jedi!  Have you worked out estimated costs per pin?

All these numbers are rough guesses.

There is probably $50US worth of parts in board3. 32 I/Os, half inputs half outputs. So if one is talking Wattstopper switches thats ~$3US per switch. That is for just I2C interface.

board2 is only needed if one needs more than 32 switches (2 board3s). Maybe $25.

board1 around $50 with NEO.

To compare approximately to Elexol io72 (assuming one is using Elexol to drive LEDs too) is 36 switches. 32 switches with this design is therefore about $125 or $4/switch. To be equivalent the Elexol would have to have opto-isolator boards and output boards, something like $400 or $12/switch, plus another CPU module to be the smarts. Even with parts @ $200 (surely covering power supply, DIN carrier, etc) it would be $6.25/switch.

Of course what that doesn't capture is the hours of work ordering parts, assembly, and testing. If I could buy the same functionality at twice the price I would. But I won't buy "half" the functionality at twice the price!

[Andrew Brownsword]

That’s quite good alright.  I keep forgetting that a lot of system builders have ambitions for the locator LEDs that greatly exceed mine.  I just wired all mine through a single relay for whole house on/off.  That makes the supporting I/O much simpler.

+1 for your hard work and I hope you have a few people jump on board to make the most of it.

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[Brad]

I'm getting close to a deadline on when I need to have the lights picked out for my house. Does anyone in here have experience with a reasonably priced rgbw recessed dmx controlled light? I have a few areas of my house that I would like to add color to, plus the ability to change the addressing so that I can group them differently in the future if I wanted to is also desired.

[Rob_in]

On Tuesday, 26 February 2019 02:03:27 UTC+1, Brad wrote:

Does anyone in here have experience with a reasonably priced rgbw recessed dmx controlled light?

We use ELDOLed LIN180 (D2 version but now they are on D3). Very happy with them. Currently around 72EUR each at Voltus.

FWIW, actually have them mounted in the electrical panel but they look designed to fit in ceiling/wall if you want them there. We also use the 24v Voltus spots and they produce very nice light.

Robin

[Stefan L]

Most options are with external controllers/drivers

I am considering something like

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/New-colorful-RGB-White-18W-dmx_1883917962.html

[Brad]

I can't tell of those are 6" cans or not. Since I'm doing new construction I was looking for something that had a housing that I could replace the fixture if it failed without tearing into the ceiling. I was also leaning towards 120v power with integrated driver. My thought was that way I could individually address the lights in the future if I wanted.

[David Wallis]

They look interesting!

[Stefan L]

I attached their catalogue. I have no prior knowledge of this company.

I have requested pricing for the drivers

[Brad]

So far I've only come across a few options that look like they fit in a residential setting.

Elite lighting HH4-led-rbgw or HH6-led rgbw
WAC R3ardt-fcc4-wt
Coloronix SH6LDC70rgbw/SR6LED21W

I can't seem to find anything that has the same 4" / 6" look in a low voltage system. The high voltage options above are far too expensive $380 - $604 each. There has to be a better option out there for me.

[Andrew B]

I'm quite happy with these in my residence:  https://www.laurenillumination.com/products/downlights/

I use a multi-channel PWM dimmer (not available anymore, sadly).  You could use their drivers (which are 0-10v control input) plus a DMX -> 0-10v multichannel converter.  Google shows that there are quite a few of the latter, but I haven't explored any further than a quick search.

[tkn]

We are using Nora lights, mostly 2" with Doug Fleenor DMX drivers. Blaze LED stripes under cabinetry.

https://nora-nspeclighting.com/Category.aspx?cid=4125

http://www.dfd.com/dmx12dim.html

So far so good.

[Skarsol]

We're also using Nora for most of the downlights. We did standard 4" high voltage cans and then used Nora Cobalt 4" retrofit LEDs.

In utility areas we're using bog standard home depot surface mount LEDs like https://www.homedepot.com/p/Commercial-Electric-Low-Profile-7-in-White-60-Watt-Equivalent-Round-Integrated-LED-Flush-Mount-Bright-White-54663141/206589815

We do have one fancy room using low voltage lights from Lauren like Andrew B is. Using their drivers directly controlled by the Loxone analog outputs.

[Skarsol]

Forgot to mention cost. Total cost per fixture for the Nora 4" setup is ~$30/can + $40 per LED. So around $70-80 per fixture which is way less than what you're looking at.

[Toby Mills]

I've gone for a 24V house and am driving all the lighting in the house via the DMX extension.

I bought a bunch of these 12ch constant current dmx dimmers which are extremely cheap and so far have been very reliable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/350ma-constant-current-12-channel-dmx-512-dimmer-LED-DMX512-decoder-RJ45-XRL-3P/32414561933.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.47f145440a8a1y

You have one down light per channel so it allows amazing control of every light in the house.

I use one of these DC to DC transformers to bring the 24V I run the house on up to the right voltage for the leds (36V in my case):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DC-20A-1200W-Step-Up-Boost-Constant-Current-Module-Variable-Voltage-Power-Supply-IN-8-60V/32863360953.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.49355038cLTzxb

This means no ballasts or transformers required.

This works out at about US$3 per channel excluding the cost of the Loxone DMX extension and the cost of the light itself.

I've been using these LED down lights as they have something called sunset dimming where the modify the temperature of the light to become more yellow as you dim them down, they look absolutely fantastic.
https://www.switch-lighting.co.nz/product/d-lightz-tilt-led-downlight/

By running the whole house on 24V, you can power the miniserver and all the extensions plus everything in the house off two 12V deep cycle batteries. This means all the lights in the house keep going if  the power goes out, no inverters required.

It keeps the wiring and setup extremely simple.

I come from a theatrical lighting background, so DMX was already very familiar to me, but it was pretty straightforward to setup once I had found those dimmers.

[Stefan Latt]

A very interesting setup and this is where I plan to go as well but I am currently still connecting the initial 220v LEDs via DMX302 Dimmers. 

The idea is than to replace them with full RGBW 24V and I have been looking at the luxgreenled products. I attached their catalogue in a post above

[Joth]

(Replying to year old thread)

Very interested in this approach. What gauge cable do you use to drive the low-voltage lighting? Do you find you get much voltage drop along the runs? Using constant current drivers largely mitigates that at least.

Did you mount the driver PCB into an enclosure of any sort? I notice that it includes detailed diagram of the mounting hole locations - are these semi-standardized such that standard DIN rail enclosure could easily accomodate it?

I've just been looking into a similar option for DMX relay board (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32716998128.html) again with 72mm spaced mounting holes. That would work out about 80% cheaper than the popular SRS DTS16-R relay board!

Referring back to previous posts, interested if anyone else has more recent experience on driving Artnet direct from Loxone? While the DMX extension is fine for current needs, Artnet is becoming increasingly popular for addressable LED "pixel" strip drivers (e.g. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000163918050.html )

I'm also tempted to invest in an Artnet <-> DNX bridge as it could be useful for diagnostics, and a backup to temporarily control the lights should my miniserver ever die! 

 Cheers