Loxone Air range/performance

[Peter van Es]

I've installed an Air extension. I have two Nano Air's on my top floor, controlling blinds. These are separated by a ceiling and one wall, both about 5m from the Air Extension (and the Miniserver).

I've seen reports in this forum of people reaching a 30m range with Air, indoors, passing through 3 or 4 walls.

I'm now experimenting with a Nano Air in my garage. This is separate from the main building by about 15 meters. Between the garage Air and the nearest upstairs Nano Air are only two walls, and 15 meters clean space. Between the garage Air and the Air Extension is around 20 meters and three walls. I had hoped that using mesh technology I'd be able to "see" or connect to the Nano Air in the garage. Yet it is never able to learn, and I cannot see it in the Air monitor.

I then moved the Nano Air into the bedroom, where it is around 13 meters from the Air Extension (same three walls), or 8 meters from the upstairs Air (but then it should pass through a concrete ceiling). Again... no signal, no learning.

I am very disappointed with this range, as the bedroom is still part of the main house. Are my expectations unrealistic ? How can I check that the mesh networking is working ? Is there a way of improving the range?

Ideally I'd like to use the Nano Air in the Garage as a hop to the shed, which is another 100m removed but without obstructions. I know 868MHz transmission can have a range of up to 200m... but I am now unable to achieve even a small part of that.

Any help gratefully accepted

Peter

[Duncan]

the range also depends on the angle through walls, so 2 devices ony 2 metres apart can be going through 2m of concrete in effect

you could try a different antenna - there are plenty of high gain 868mhz antennas with long leads and the correct connector then you can also try different locations for the antenna

i gained 2 bars on some devices by moving the antenna and using something like this:

http://www.h-tronic.eu/product_info.php?language=en&info=p416_250-mm-antenne-ht250a--868-mhz.html&

you can check if mesh is working by looking at the device status - it will show the number of hops for each air device, the signal strength etc

[Chris Pitman]

Maybe try learning the nano in range of base, then move away to see if it will then mesh.

Try moving the antenna around horizontal / vertical a small move can effect range, had some real oddities with mine to start with on touch airs ended up throwing a spare dmx air in loft and mesh seems 99% ok a couple switches keep jumping on and off mesh so first tap dosent work then then jump and work fine for ages.

[smartbusinesstools.be]

In my experience, some devices can only be found and added when placed very close (e.g. 1m) to the Air extension. Once they are added, they work just fine at the normal range.

[Peter]

I experienced similar problems but with Air window contacts. Most of my house walls are quite chunky (brick) and I've used a number of smart sockets to create a mesh, otherwise I just wouldn't get coverage. In fact the small aerial provided with the Air extension wasn't man enough for the job and it's been replaced with an external aerial which has solved the problem. Actually the bigger aerial is fitted directly to the extension at the moment but I do intend to mount it externally. 

Before changing the aerial, some window contacts were just dropping out but this doesn't get notified on the App, To all intents and purposes the contact was working correctly. Only by looking in config was I able to see which were not working.

[Bernard Abbott]

Any suggestions to add to a rather old thread please, on extending the range of a Loxone Aire Base:

In summary,  to our otherwise wired Loxone system, we have added an air base in the loft of for several RGBW lights .  Built in 2012, with lashings of Celotex insulation (metal foil on front and back), and with some steel structure, the house acts as a Faraday cage for wireless transmissions generally.  I have installed a 7dBI Antenna in the loft and a walk test throughout the house shows pretty good coverage in at the extrenities within the house. 

However absolutely none outside the house.  I suspect that 858mhz is blocked by glass whereas DECT and limited wi-fi seems to pass through.

Could I split the antenna feed with one outside and one inside the cage? Can the air base cope with two antenna sources being combined?  I don't see why not as each will have exclusive links.Has anybody tried this already, and what were the results?  If it could work, then this is probably a lowest cost solution.  Much cheaper than having to install an extra Air Base.

Are there any other elegant solutions this problem with well insulated modern buildings?

I would be most grateful for thoughts or any experiences, as we are keen to link both our garden irrigation systems and other perimeter devices to our Loxone setup.

Many thanks all 

[Colin]

I don't believe you can have two antennas - systems with two, such as a wifi base, are designed for this.

As you say, you can have multiple Air Extensions.  But expensive.

The normal approach to this is to layout the mesh.  Air devices at as repeaters for other devices up to 4 hops.   So can you place an Air unit on the inside of the house visible somewhere outside.   Or even a series of two or three devices between your base and the intended device.   I don't find going through glass is a problem - but maybe you have special glass?   But it will go through walls.   Using Air plug sockets is a good way of doing this - also Air motion detectors with 24V supplied.   Think about pathways of Air devices through and outside your home.

I just got an Air device working 100m from the front of my house from an antenna up in my loft.  That only goes through a tiled roof and lots of air - but shows the potential.  I actually get three blobs and no hops from that unit.   In my back garden there is a thick chimney in the way and I need to use hops.  Although none are longer than 2.

Hope that helps.

[Bernard Abbott]

Colin, 

Thanks for prompt reply.

In our case external walls contain 85mm of foil-backed insulation.  Internal walls do not.

Good point about air devices being repeaters. My walk test only used a single device. 

As a retro-add on to a wired house, we have only a small air device poulation, so I need more specifically to short hop through the external perimeter glass.

Thanks for your help.  It is easy to miss the obvioius!

[Colin]

OK.  Yes in some places we have an Air device where a Tree would be perfectly possible - just to extend the mesh.   We have a 5 bed house, 2 external outhouses and a 2 acre garden all within Air range - and only one Air Extension.  The antenna is placed centrally in the loft with careful angling to maximise signal in key directions.   Nothing is more than 2 hops.   The hardest ones are Nano Airs inside metal wall boxes.

[Techdoctor]

We have a similar problem here in Spain, as the construction method of many of the houses is like a Faraday cage. What I have done on several  installs is to use a nano IO air or two as  repeaters.  Last install I used a Smart Socket Air acting as a repeater. Both work well. On one install, which had an Air extension, I had a Nano air in the garage with intermittent comms, after a day of monitoring found out that when the metal door from the garage to the house opened you got comms.  Used a Smart Socket near the metal door and no more comms problems. 

[Arnaud]

In my experience, Smart Socket seems to be better for repeater than Nano.

one more question ; do you know if an Air motion detector connected on 24v act as repeater ?

[Techdoctor]

I think any air device that is not battery powered will also act as a repeater, so the Actuator Air using a 24V supply will act as a repeater. 

On Thursday, 3 November 2016 20:55:12 UTC+1, Peter van Es wrote:

[Arnaud]

Yes, 

thanks for your response.

i've just connected Nano IO in 24v mode, and is act well as repeater.

[Techdoctor]

Thought this link might help. Its actually from the loxone web site. 

On Thursday, 3 November 2016 20:55:12 UTC+1, Peter van Es wrote: