Miniserver not accepting new programming

[seb303]

I have a weird problem with my miniserver.

It hung after saving a config (it contained nothing that might have caused this - I only made a very minor change).  After I power cycled, it came back with the original unchanged config.  Since then it will not accept a new config at all.  I also tried to save a blank config, and it just kept the existing one.

Any ideas how I can get it accept configs again?

[seb303]

Further to this, I've noticed a couple of other things:
- The miniserver has stopped recording statistics.
- All the lights switch off when I try to Save a config to miniserver (normally the state of the lights is unchanged)

[Andrew B]

My first suspicion would be the SD card having gone bad in some way. Can you try another?

[Darren Richardson]

Sounds like a time stamp issue, the mini server saves 10 old config's on the SD card and when it loads it looks for the newest if the time and date are wrong in the mini server it unable to load config's which have a date ahead of what is in the mini server go to ipofminiserver:port/admin and check the settings there

[seb303]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Here are my further findings....

The /admin/setup.asp page shows the correct current time and timezone.

I did a backup from the miniserver and I can see the 10 configs, the newest one being sps_0126_20170314201133.zip which was the last time I successfully save a config.

web/data/LoxAPP3.json has a corresponding "lastModified" : "2017-03-14 20:11:16"

I did a series of 2 backups and compared the remanence files...

backup #1
sys/rem/rem08.xml and rem108.xml have:
<Rem Date="2017-03-14 20:11:09" Save="2017-03-17 11:34:24" Version="3">

backup #2
rem87.xml and rem187.xml have:
<Rem Date="2017-03-14 20:11:09" Save="2017-03-17 12:15:56" Version="3">

backup #3
rem14.xml and rem114.xml have:
<Rem Date="2017-03-14 20:11:09" Save="2017-03-17 11:37:27" Version="3">

So the Save dates are all old and are not even in chronological order.  I don't know the details of how the remanence files are working but this doesn't seem right.

I also noticed that def.log has a load of random binary data on the end (last readable entry is 2017-03-17 08:08:07.564).

Unfortunately I don't have a way to write another SD card right now as my laptop SD port has gone bad.  Waiting for a USB reader to come in the post.

[seb303]

On the subject of trying a new SD card: is there a recommended type to use?

[Kops]

Hi Seb,
I had the same issue few months back. It was dead SD card in my case.
Try to run this command from your browser:

http://YOUR_IP/dev/sys/sdtest

This will give you back something like: <LL control="dev/sys/sdtest" value="SD performance read=1093kB/s write=1537kB/s no error (0 0), ManufactorerID .....

My faulty card reported this:

<LL control="dev/sys/sdtest" value="SD performance read=87381kB/s write=2557kB/s error (1 1048576), ManufactorerID ..... 

The card was really bad, even reformatting was not possible.

My new card is Samsung microSDHC 16GB EVO Class 10 UHS-1 and is working fine. I know that the capacity is maybe unnecessarily large but it is difficult to order smaller cards these days.

[seb303]

Hi Kops,

Thanks for the tip.  It does indeed look like a faulty SD card...

<LL control="dev/sys/sdtest" value="SD performance read=87381kB/s write=2818kB/s error (1 1048576), ManufactorerID 27 Date 2014/2 CardType 2 Blocksize 512 Erase 0 MaxtransferRate 25000000 RWfactor 2 ReadSpeed 22222222Hz WriteSpeed 22222222Hz MaxReadCurrentVDDmin 3 MaxReadCurrentVDDmax 5 MaxWriteCurrentVDDmin 3 MaxWriteCurrentVDDmax 1" Code="200"/>

Loxone docs say to only use SD cards supplied by Loxone.  But I can't bring myself to spend over £20 (inc. delivery) for a 4GB card!
I guess I'll grab one from ebay and take my chances.

[Andrew B]

Flash does vary dramatically in terms of reliability. The ones loxone sells and recommends are the higher grade enterprise ones, not the cheap consumer crap. The cheap stuff can't even hold its bits very well for time spans measured in years. The enterprise grade ones use better flash and higher levels of error correction. At the moment I'm using consumer grade, however I plan to buy a couple of better ones... Just not from loxone as I think I can find better deals locally.

[Kops]

Andrew, any particular brands / types to be recommended here?

Thanks.

[Andrew B]

Sorry, no. Look for "industrial grade" or high reliability. Features like higher error correction, wear leveling, etc. A quick search seems to show that the big manufacturers all have industrial grade product lines but they don't advertise in the typical consumer sites (which makes sense).

[Sergey Rozenblat]

Loxone's "higher grade" SD-card started failing for me after around 10 months.

I've now switched to consumer 8 GB card two months ago without single problem so far, but having one spare card already with firmware formatted nearby just in case.

[seb303]

Quick update:

I can confirm that the SD card was the cause of this issue.  After a bit of research and looking around, I settled on this card as a replacement:
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/secure-digital-cards/1249649/
Endurance-wise, I suspect this is an improvement on the Loxone brand card, although it's impossible to know for sure as Loxone don't provide any manufacturer information.

I had to restore from quite an old backup to be sure I didn't restore any corrupted files.  I copied over the newest statistic files into this older backup so I didn't loose any history.  The latest statistic files had some binary garbage appended due to the SD card failure.  The miniserver didn't seem to mind this, but in the end I truncate this off in a hex file editor just to be on the safe side.

[seb303]

On the subject of SD cards for the Miniserver: I thought I would share my recent experience of buying some other SD cards from ebay.  I was looking for a 32GB MicroSD for my son's tablet.  It wasn't mission critical, just to store some movies to watch, so I bought the cheapest one on ebay with a reputable brand name (SanDisk Ultra).  When I tried to use it, only the first few videos copied to it would work, and the rest would not.  So I applied for a refund, and bought another card - a Samsung EVO this time.  Exactly the same problem.

I then used a utility called H2testw to check the cards, and found that both cards would only write to the first 4GB.  The other 24GB would not hold any data.  From some further reading, it seems this is a pretty common trick used to make fake cards more cheaply.

This is particularly relevant if buying a card for the Miniserver as you might never notice that the card only had 4GB writeable capacity ... until the likely poor endurance and reliability of the fake card caused other problems.

So I guess I learned my lesson about buying SD cards from ebay!  Fortunately I couldn't find any high-endurance industrial type cards on ebay when I was looking for a replacement card for my Miniserver, so I bought from a reputable seller instead.

[sk]

I gave up on Samsung cards. The mini server refuses to perform updates with them. Duncan recommended lexarr and it has been fine since. Whilst Samsung are ok in cameras low it seems low level access etc isn't quite as good.

[Julián Medrano Silvestre]

Could you please give us more information about the SD card brand and model?

I think I have the same problem with a couple of customers and I want to replace the SD card.

If you tell us where you bought them then it would be perfect :)

Thanks in advance.

Julián

[Duncan]

ive been using lexar 633x speed (16, 32 and 64gb) - they seem very reliable and i can always update over the network now, where as with the old cards i often had to remove the card and reformat/install in a PC

eg https://mobymemory.com/uk/lexar-16gb-95mb-s-633x-microsdhc-class-10-memory-card-usb-3-0-reader-5617.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5ooujVe49OHmJk6Fw78cvFC0OPHMaqMwlSnkDrJa7slxoCbLbw_wcB

[seb303]

I replaced my Loxone card with a Transcend TS4GUSD220I which is a 4GB card designed to give high endurance in write intensive applications.  It also has built in ECC.
https://www.transcend-info.com/Embedded/Products/No-739
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/secure-digital-cards/1249649/

This will likely give longer term reliability that consumer cards such as the Lexar 633x which are designed more for performance than endurance.  Not that I'm saying the Lexar is a bad card, only that for not much more money you can get better.

[Andrew B]

Well this week the consumer-grade SD card I had in my miniserver failed in some way -- statistics stopped accumulating, and the log contained garbage at the end.  Fortunately I had bought a few of those Transcend cards (albeit 16GB), so I've popped one of those in and we shall see how it lasts.

The quick death of this card gives me pause about storing anything on the SD card in the Loxone.  I have already been contemplating introducing a little ARM linux box into my system and offloading as much programming as I can to it (much MUCH better development environment, and most of my I/O is via UDP to Elexol I/O controllers anyhow)... now I'm thinking I might also see if I can offload logging and statistics!  It has 2 SD card slots and isn't limited to 4GB.

[Toon]

I'm experiencing exactly the same issue:

- Cannot save any updates from Loxone Config to the miniserver.

- I can make configuration adjustments from the Loxone app.

- When I restart the miniserver, all lights go out.

I checked the SD Card, but it seems there is no error:

<LL control="dev/sys/sdtest" value="SD performance read=540kB/s write=422kB/s no error (0 0), ManufactorerID 27 Date 2014/2 CardType 2 Blocksize 512 Erase 0 MaxtransferRate 25000000 RWfactor 2 ReadSpeed 22222222Hz WriteSpeed 22222222Hz MaxReadCurrentVDDmin 3 MaxReadCurrentVDDmax 5 MaxWriteCurrentVDDmin 3 MaxWriteCurrentVDDmax 1" Code="200"/>

I tried removing all log and statistic files from the SD Card. I restarted several times.

Any ideas?

Thank you.

[Rob_in]

Do you have a working internet connection to allow the Miniserver to set it's clock?

I found that without this new updates don't stay put after a reboot.

It's pretty useless on their part, but I would assume there are multiple configurations saved in the Miniserver which are timestamped and if it doesn't know the correct time that doesn't work and the wrong (old) config is loaded at boot. Just a guess though. If this is the issue you'd have to ask why they didn't just use a sequence number stored on the SD card?

Robin

[Toon]

Seems internet access is fine; I can remotely access the Miniserver.
Also, when I look into the settings the date and time are correct.

[Ruud Stam]

Try pining the miniserver. I had a faulty cable that was causing errors too.

ping <IP_FROM_MINISERVER> -t

break with ctrl-c after half a minute or so. 

Merry Xmas :)

[Toon]

--- 192.168.0.183 ping statistics ---

57 packets transmitted, 57 packets received, 0.0% packet loss

round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 0.305/0.393/0.540/0.039 ms

[Ruud Stam]

Well, that looks fine...

Could there be a difference in the version of loxconfig compared to the version of the miniserver?

You could try to update the miniserver mine is on 9.1.10.30

[Toon]

I reinstalled Loxone Config and then got the message that there was indeed a new update available (I had hit 'Check for updates' multiple times before and always got the message that I had the latest version..)

Anyhow, I'm now at 9.1.10.30 (the extensions are all at a lower version still, but green), but I get the same behavior. :-(

Next idea?

[Andrew B]

Have you tried a new SD card? The error indicator may not be dependable.