Loxone new product in September

[Julián Medrano Silvestre]

As you will probably know, Loxone has announced a new hardware for September.

"The greatest product revolution since the Miniserver"

My bet... New hardware for voice control

what about yours?

[Rob.no1]

I don’t think they will go down the voice control route, they have always been anti it. My guess is something new in the media space, as they have always said it was an area they wanted to grow and they have recently discontinued the amplifiers and done a deal on the media servers (maybe to clear out the old stock????)

Watch this space!!!!

[Duncan]

https://www.loxforum.com/forum/hardware-zubeh%C3%B6r-sensorik/260719-product-event-03-sept

[Rob]

Good find Duncan :)

My money's definitely on a new audio server system. Loxone are no longer selling the re-badged Dayton Amp and the Music Server's have been offered at substantial discount recently too.

I was about to press the button on a music server myself, the only thing that stopped me was the unavailability of the amp.

If the new Loxone audio server is based on the InnoTune kit then, assuming Loxone pricing is similar, a server and 12 channel amp (6 modules) works out less money than the old music server and amp, although the amps do seem expensive at around €150 per channel

[Duncan]

you can always get the amp from dayton audio - either the 40w or the uprated 60w/ch version, you dont have to go via loxone

[Techdoctor]

From what I can see, its a purple miniserver style din rail mounted enclosure.

So it could be anything.

Audio maybe a possibility.

I think it could be a new Miniserver with WiFi connection as well as ethernet. Maybe even bluetooth. 

What about a media server, rather than just audio it will do video as well.

[Rob]

That's what I was planning to do but now I am going to wait a few weeks and see what Loxone come up with.

[Rob]

The Gen2 Miniserver is relatively new so I can't see there being a Gen3 anytime soon. Don't think they would they want WiFi or Bluetooth built into the MS, separate extension maybe but can't honestly see much need for it.

I've always been a fan of the music server but found it difficult to justify on price. If they can launch a new modular system (e.g. InnoTune) then I think that's a good move, although the disappearance of uPNP zones would be disappointing.

[Dani OptiX]

Maybe something in hotel room management or BMS world...we will see

[Joth]

I always disliked the Loxone Miniserver on principle for being overpriced proprietary fork of an open source project, and being no more than a repackaged PC motherboard and mishmash of soundcards,  and especially for using analogue-only  interconnects between the server and amp.

Not a lot of tech info on the InnoTune but this video https://youtu.be/FF5VYS7H93Y shows it using USB for all the server and amp interconnects. While at least "digital", it's a very strange choice that restricts equipment placement and isn't going to scale well to large high-def systems especially when we consider Sonos have now raised the bar to Atmos support and we'd be expecting future looking multiroom systems to deal gracefully with music and  adding surround channels in large open plan areas 

I'm in the middle of installing speaker wires in a deep renovation, still haven't made firm choices on what to drive it from - this teaser makes me glad I'm keeping my options wide open at least

[Trey Sheldon]

Joth - I'm curious about your comment regarding the miniserver being a proprietary fork of an open source project.

Which project are you referring to?

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[David Wallis]

i think you're also confusing the mini server and music server, the mini server is not a pc. nothing even close.

as for the music server it used to be based on casa tunes... now lms... im just using music4lox

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[Jonathan Dixon]

Sorry yes typo! I was talking exclusively about the (current) music server. 

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[Techdoctor]

Personally I think WiFi would be an excellent addition. On two occasions I have had to create a WiFi bridge to the Loxone Miniserver. This has worked very well. So adding built in Wifi makes sense. Often when I am called in to install Loxone products its not easy to add an ethernet cable, so WiFi is the only option. It also works out a lot cheaper, than running a Cat6 cable.  I have also used Homeplugs as an alternative, but sometimes this is not possible or practical especially if the miniserver is on a different power source to everything else.

[Simon Still]

Really?  I'd have thought with all the other cabling that's being done for a Loxone installation, ethernet would be trivial (most of my Loxone install uses ethernet cable for signalling/24V/Switch inputs etc anyway).  Wifi is always more troublesome than cabled connection.  A number of my wifi connected devices don't reconnect properly after the wifi goes down momentarily or after a power cycle, plus my install in in a cupboard with loads of metal and cabling around it  - not the best place for reception. 

[Techdoctor]

I am often called in at the last minute, to quote and install. So the houses are almost completed. So its a lot harder to start installing cables etc. This is why most of my installs use Loxone air products and the last two had WiFi bridges. So far never had a problem using WiFi.  No drop outs nothing.

[Rob]

Adding WiFi could hardly be described as revolutionary, and wouldn't justify the hype and marketing from Loxone either.

[tarun]

Adding a proprietary wireless protocol that is exactly like Wifi except nothing else is compatible with it though? They would think that was worth the hype.

Honestly, I think it will be a new music server or something like Sonos for distributed audio installs.

[TomM]

I would be disappointed if it's either a new wireless solution, WiFi is hardly groundbreaking and Air exists already, or the replacement for the audio server.

Audio and video distribution over IP would be relatively cutting edge but that's still easily achieved using HDbaseT or SDVoE currently so doesn't fit the ground breaking remit.

What about an add on device similar to Loxberry giving the ability to write code and build plugins (app store) etc? Would be quite revolutionary for loxone as a company (even if it is just stealing the Loxberry concept).

[tarun]

Sorry I was joking since Loxone Air adds nothing new that Zigbee/Z-wave didn't except being proprietary.

I could see them adding a lot more compute power. I would like a better programmability. Why not control over powerline through some protocol similar to powerline networking? Avoid having to wire up except by adding endpoint devices? Or just moving to POE powered everything would be great. plug in an ethernet cable to each switch and lightbulb and just have everything work.

[Julián Medrano Silvestre]

And this is how a "good product" creates frustration... when the promotion is much much bigger than it, and it creates too much expectative...

[TomM]

Thoroughly underwhelming. Nothing particularly innovative here, new form factor, slightly better integration.  Price point is good or channel but as each channel is only 18w RMS, you'll still need external amps to drive anything more than small speakers for background music.

What about video integration? What happens when I want to watch TV using 5.1 speakers and also have announcements and doorbells interrupt the audio. Do I have to install another speaker just for that purpose?

This is not innovative in the multi room audio space let alone the home automation space.

[Joth]

loxone.com  appears to be done but the direct link to the video is here: https://youtu.be/wSJWv31gWbA

spoliter: audio server

[sk]

Agreed, bit of an anticlimax... 

Wireless multi room audio would have been marginally better. It doesn’t appear to have airplay 2 support either.  

[Rob]

Well, now we know what all the hype was about - a much hinted at replacement for the music server, now badged an audio server.

For me, I think it's a great product to sit alongside the Miniserver and both in terms of installation and price, a clear winner over the old music server. One of the main reasons I did not install multi room audio when I did my Loxone install was the huge cost of the music server, in my case around £3k all in. I have wired for sound everywhere and now I have a product that I think is much more affordable and better integrated into Loxone. The new audio server and extensions will be half the cost of the old music server and I will definitely be buying and installing it.

I like the connectivity and the fact you can attach USB storage devices with your own music collection. I have yet to delve into the detail but don't doubt that it will tick the box for most people wanting a straightforward audio system in their home. It's very competitively priced and the modular design is much better to scale up than the music server. It's also clear that it's a product designed to easily bridge across a number of sectors, not just home but also the commercial installations that Loxone seem to be trying to get a foothold into.

I agree it's not hugely innovative in the context of the whole market but will disrupt the home audio sector a bit, especially at the (for Loxone) very competitive pricing announced today. For those who think it's missed a trick by not being able to integrate easily with a 5.1 or other cinema type set up, I think that's probably deliberate. To be honest, if you're a keen home cinema enthusiast you're likely to have a completely independent set up with all the components suited to your requirements. Loxone were never likely to be able to compete in that market, although it is possible with existing Loxone kit to have some element of control.

If anyone fancies a new audio server, I'm happy to order one, or any other equipment for anyone that needs it.

[Rob]

Airplay 2 is supported

[Medes.net]

Classic Loxone, over promise and under deliver. 

Biggest thing since the miniserver? All that marketing line does is devalue the miniserver!

Trouble is they seem to have the ‘packaging’ all wrong again...

Just like the MS go this device is fundamentally flawed in an opposite direction.  

It is din mounted... Why? Probably because the miniserver is, I doubt there was any more thought than that. 

This is going to end up with audio cables in with mains cables in a common cabinet. 

Lets assume it goes in a future automation cabinet, To get to the USB or SD cards you need to remove the cover, exposing various Mains connections, so it needs powering off the whole install to add a bit of USB music, crazy. 

Speaker, RCA, line cable in a FA Cab -bonkers. 

90% of all loxone Panel installs I see are gash, no regard whatsoever to the standards, CE, LVD, MD marking, this product only serves to further hamper the installs. 

This sort of CI kit belongs in a rack, with a decent spec amp. 

What is this device really doing? 

No 5.1/7.1/9.1 support, 

18w channels? Whisper louder! 

Still needs amps - which will be rack mount. 

Doorbell Via the speakers really? 

How about some actual new useful hardware? 

A Miniserver in a small Din housing?

Some form of fail over?

Accessible SD cards without pulling panels to bits?

LoxBus & tree on the multi air? 

Or maybe Software

A better UI, very basic when compared to most leading Audio CI kit. 

On 3 Sep 2020, at 21:53, sk <shara...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Stefan L]

- Maybe I am missing something here (I hope so) but the server supports 1 external amp? one! 

- Additional Stereo Channels are €210 each but without analogue audio, only speaker and digital no line audio. How do you add a regular AMP? I guess a digital to analogue converter at the amp.. 

- Airplay support, meaning in or out? I assume only in or is it possible to add indefinite amount of airplay compatible speakers? 
- The only benefits are integration to alarm and intercom? 

Also, this has to go in separate enclosure, not a good idea to mix this into the AC panel

A missed opportunity IMHO

I still like the miniservers but difficult to see a use case here but I guess the amps are ok in many projects