PIR sensors - noisy relay, lesson learned

[Simon Still]

Just adding this here as reference for other people.  Movement sensors remain difficult!

I have a movement sensor in each of my halls (basement/ground/1/2).  For all but the top floor I'm using these Niko sensors and have placed them at one end of the hall. 

http://www2.niko.eu/enus/article/350-30010

They're small, neat and silent but PIR sensors are better at detecting movement across their field of view rather than straight ahead so detection isn't perfect.

On the top floor I've fitted a Danlers 24V ceiling mounted PIR

http://www.danlers.co.uk/pir-occupancy-switches/42-products/pir/pir-occupancy-switches/ceiling-flush-mounted/28-cefl-pir-24v-ceiling-flush-mounted-pir-occupancy-switch-variants 

Detection seems better than with the Nikos BUT it operates a relay with annoyingly loud click.  I'm going to fiddle with the lux sensor so that it doesn't trigger during the day.  I'm also going to drive the 'on time' directly from the sensor rather than in Loxone config but it's still not ideal. 

Can anyone recommend a direct replacement that's silent?  I've now got a 64mm hole in my ceiling which I'd rather not fill. It's got a 24V supply but I've got  12v in the cabinet so could patch it to a 12V supply if needed. 

[nick@UniQhome]

The Loxone motion sensor air is totally silent and can also be powered from 24v. Seems to work pretty well, early days though. The hole in the ceiling might be a problem at the sensor is designed to sit on the  ceiling. (it should cover the hole but fixing might be an issue.

[Simon Still]

> On 17 Jun 2016, at 11:13, nick@UniQhome <uniq...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Loxone motion sensor air is totally silent and can also be powered from 24v. Seems to work pretty well, early days though. The hole in the ceiling might be a problem at the sensor is designed to sit on the ceiling. (it should cover the hole but fixing might be an issue.

It (appears to be) large and its’ expensive...

[nick@UniQhome]

Its 95mm in diameter, and yes, expensive but silent

[smartbusinesstools.be]

Simon

You could use the Niko in-ceiling version http://www.smartbusinesstools.be/shop/product/motion-sensor-24v-in-ceiling-256 version, which has a lens for 360 degrees presence detection, but it's still called a motion detector. If needed, we can also get you a true presence detector with dual technologies to really detect presence of not moving bodies.

The wall-mounted Niko you have is indeed according to it's datasheet intended for detection of movement across, but it works well for detecting all movement if you choose/test the mounting position well. Also have a look at the manual. You should mount the detector upright and not tilt it to 'look' straight at the moving objects. The 'beam' is downward in an angle. Also try with increasing the sensitivity a little with the small potentiometer inside.

[Simon Still]

Thanks - that's cheaper than the Danlers unit as well.  If it annoys me over time I'll be in touch for one of those.  

I don't really need presence detection.  When switched on the hall lights on all floors come on at 20% brightness.  The movement sensor raises the brightness level to 80% for 2 minutes just on the floor where motion is detected.    Given that it's close to the longest day in the UK at the moment it's too early to say if the whole idea is flawed.  

Simon

[Russ]

Hey is that Niko in-ceiling detector silent when it triggers?  I too have not found an abundance of 24v detectors, and this one looks interesting.

[Simon Still]

On Monday, 20 June 2016 08:25:23 UTC+1, Russ wrote:

Hey is that Niko in-ceiling detector silent when it triggers?  I too have not found an abundance of 24v detectors, and this one looks interesting.

The Niko wall mount are completely silent.  I'm sure this is the same.  

[Sergey Rozenblat]

Niko in-ceiling are completely silent and very reliable. I have 5 of them: no false triggers, no trigger delay. I recommend them.

[RSin]

Are the niko in-ceiling OK in bathrooms? I think the datasheet states IP20. Anyone had adverse effects?

Thanks.

[Sergey Rozenblat]

I do have two of them in the bathrooms. Not a single issue.

[RSin]

Regarding the Niko 350-20061 (360 deg ceiling mounted) does it need pull-up resistors as per the other niko motion sensor? I'm a bit loathed to blindly add it and fry something!

How is it wired? am I correct in assuming that 24v + & - runs through connections 1 & 2 and then a single lead from connection 3 to a digital input on the miniserver?