Viessmann and EIB/KNX fun

[sk]

I recently renovated my house and had a viessmann 222f weather comp boiler fitted. I noticed that you can get a vitogate 200 to allow the boiler to communicate with the EIB/KNX interface on loon's mini server and decided to give it a try. The main idea was to get more information out of the boiler such as the outside temp and boiler circuit temps and hopefully gain fine control over the heating actuators within the boiler.

What you need:
1. A viessmann boiler with compatible control unit
2. A viessmann vitogate 200
3. A LON Module
4. A LON Cable (supplied with the vitogate)
5. Two terminal connectors <-- Hardly noticeable in the documentation.
6. ETS
7. Patience.

I have so far realised that the vitogate will refuse to be discovered unless the LON bus is correctly terminated. The documentation on the whole setup is very difficult.

Connectivity is established:
Boiler <-> Control Unit <-> LON Module <-> LON Cable <-> Vitogate 200 <-> EIB Cable <-> Miniserver

I will post back once I have it working. (Currently waiting for LON cable terminators)

[Simon Still]

<subscribes to thread>

I've got one of these boilers.  It's staggering just how much extra you have to spend to communicate with it 1000Euro for the Lon module and Vitogate is the price I found.  http://www.loebbeshop.de/viessmann/regelungen/vitocom/vitogate-200-typ-eib-knxeib-gateway.htm

I suspect I'll be leaving it controlled by the standard weather comp controller (which is working really well). 

[sk]

Do you find that it conflicts with Loxone's room intelligent room controller? I think the intelligent room controller expects constant temp which the boiler doesn't do, so then the intelligent room controller switches on or off the heating too soon. I find it worst with the under floor heating

[Simon Still]

At the moment I don't have any control of the boiler from Loxone - I'm just using the Viessmann weather comp controller on the boiler.  The house is highly insulated with underfloor heating throughout.  The UFH runs continuously from 0430 to 2200 with the Viessmann varying the flow temperature.  

We've only been in the house 2 months but I suspect we will turn on the heating at the start of Autumn and back off in spring,  We might set the boiler to holiday mode if we're away for a week or more.

Loxone does control the hot water recirculation loop based on time and occupancy. 

[sk]

interesting... how does loxone control the hotter loop? do you mean radiator actuators?

I have those and it is the actuators that come on too soon or switch off too late because of the weather comp. Basically, the IRC formula doesn't seem to handle weather comp so rooms are never quite what they should be.

[sk]

Progress made!!

Thanks to flip, I am now able to see the boiler temps of the circuits (heating, hot water etc) and able to communicate with the boiler from loxone. My next step is to create actuators so that I can be more fine grain about the temps.

[richhal]

Hi,

I have a very similar setup. I have underfloor heating and radiators upstairs. I fitted the ufh and the entire knx system controlling all lights, room temperatures and an external blind. I used zennio quad's with temperature probes in standard brush nickel light switches. It's all working well apart from the integration with the viessman. I still need to buy the vitogate but I am wondering whether i really need it. Where did you get the parts and how much were they?

Do you have a few more details regarding how you fitted it?

It would really help me finish the system, thank you.

[sk]

Hi, I bought the parts from Germany - a viessmann reseller.

Wiring:
1. Mains supply to the vitogate
2. Knx or cat 7 cable from Loxone mini server to the vitogate
3. Lon cable (should come with vitogate) between Vitogate and boiler. The boiler should come with a tech manual or you can find it online.
4. The Lon cable needs termination at both ends with a resistor again available online.
5. Once hooked up fire up ETS5 (free download for small number of devices)
6. Download the device profiles from viessmann for ETS
7. Using the manual for Vitogate figure out which mappings you want to translate to and from the boiler, map in ETS and upload with the vitogate in program mode. NB Loxone miniserver acts as the KNX bridge.
8. Scan for the actuators and sensors in Loxone and wire up to your config.

the tricky part is learning ETS to configure it correctly and understanding your boiler manual.

NB the solution is it cheap but if you plan on fine tuning your heating using weather prediction, real outside temps or smart meter variable rates then you stand to make the money back in the long term.

[Simon Still]

On Friday, 22 January 2016 16:56:32 UTC, sk wrote:

interesting... how does loxone control the hotter loop? do you mean radiator actuators?

No - some of the hot water taps (for sinks) are a long way from the boiler.  I have a loop of pipe and a pump that circulates hot water when needed (so you get hot water in a few seconds rather that having a long wait and wasting water).

 

I have those and it is the actuators that come on too soon or switch off too late because of the weather comp. Basically, the IRC formula doesn't seem to handle weather comp so rooms are never quite what they should be.

I'm just using the Viessmann controls for heating - not Loxone.   

[Simon Still]

On Wednesday, 20 January 2016 20:08:16 UTC, sk wrote:

I recently renovated my house and had a viessmann 222f weather comp boiler fitted. I noticed that you can get a vitogate 200 to allow the boiler to communicate with the EIB/KNX interface on loon's mini server and decided to give it a try. The main idea was to get more 

I looked at the Viessmann site today and see they now have a low cost remote control solution.  The new VitoConnect 100 seems to be about 100Euro, connects to the boiler with a cable, Wifi to your home network and then use a Viessmann smartphone app. 

http://www.viessmann.de/de/viessmann-apps/vicare-app/vitoconnect.html  

I don't see that theres any way to link to Loxone but if you're using an iPad for house control as I am with a few different apps on it as well as Loxone this would be fine. 

[sk]

ah that is a much better implementation and probably much cheaper.

I found the UK site over at: http://www.viessmann.co.uk/en/viessmann-apps/vicare-app/vitoconnect.html

the open source declarations does state Json so it might be possible for the miniserver to get data from the box directly. From the docs it looks like they have designed it to work with their mobile app.

[Simon Still]

On Saturday, 5 November 2016 19:25:16 UTC, sk wrote:

ah that is a much better implementation and probably much cheaper.

I found the UK site over at: http://www.viessmann.co.uk/en/viessmann-apps/vicare-app/vitoconnect.html

the open source declarations does state Json so it might be possible for the miniserver to get data from the box directly. From the docs it looks like they have designed it to work with their mobile app.

Very simple to install and set up (the way the app guides you through installation is just about the best I've seen for any device).  The one step that through me was the optical connection - I'd got the boiler open and the back off the control panel looking for the optical connection which turned out to be on the front of the boiler next to the pressure gauge! 

All communication is via Viessmann's servers so this is completely dependent on them continuing to run the back end and update their app to be work with new phone OS's.  

The app is a phone app that only operates in portrait mode.  it looks absolutely fine on an iPad but not a lot of use on my permanently wall mounted iPad that's mounted landscape. 

 

[sk]

do you know if there is any REST or other APIs you can access on the box direct from Loxone Config?

[Simon Still]

On Sunday, 20 November 2016 21:21:07 UTC, sk wrote:

do you know if there is any REST or other APIs you can access on the box direct from Loxone Config?

I'm guessing not.