[LCCH] Newly researching lcch

[Suzanne Ryan]

I've started exploring the whole co-housing thing--with the idea that
I could contribute labor in order to earn my keep. Unfortunately I
don't have extra finances to invest right now. I've contacted a
cohousing community in my state (Massachusetts) and have been invited
to tour it. I'll probably do it just to get an honest idea of how
these are run.

It does seem like co-housing is limited to people with disposable
income right now...a guided tour in Western MA costs $95 a head to
visit various communities.

The one I've been invited to tour is closer to the Cape and I haven't
found out yet what a tour would cost--if anything.

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[Marganne Meyer]

Suzanne,

I've had the same frustration with trying to go along with tours of
projects in Northern California. As a person living on a low income,
$95 just to see projects for a day isn't reasonable. I'm sure it
would be very enlightening. At this point, I'm not sure touring
cohousing projects that are much more expensive than I could afford
is the way to go.

Think I've heard that Massachusetts has a lot of new projects
starting there. Sometimes it's easier (and not so expensive) if you
connect with one or two people involved with the project, then ask
for a tour yourself and perhaps share a community meal. I think
another entry point for low-income people into cohousing is to rent a
unit. Sometimes a project will bring in 'associate' members who are
people who live in the surrounding neighborhood and want to become
involved with the community.

Cheers!
Marganne

At 9:31 AM -0700 4/25/10, Suzanne Ryan wrote:
>I've started exploring the whole co-housing thing--with the idea that
>I could contribute labor in order to earn my keep. Unfortunately I
>don't have extra finances to invest right now. I've contacted a
>cohousing community in my state (Massachusetts) and have been invited
>to tour it. I'll probably do it just to get an honest idea of how
>these are run.

[Suzanne Ryan]

Thanks for the good advice. Yes, I noticed that there is a lot of co-
housing here that is just now forming.

I read your other post about the advantages of cohousing for lower
income people. I'd add that a tight knit community is also a good
safety net for people living on their own. It's a good way to be
independent, maintain privacy--and yet be a part of something bigger.
Some people thrive on that kind of support and accountability--and
arguably get out of whatever rut keeps them at low income (idealistic,
I know...but I'm just saying)

[E L Cobb]

suzanne,
i've probably decided that i wasn't made for cohousing living, but i
discovered one in new hampshire founded by _Limits to Growth_ Donella
Meadows. it's so green and so sustainable and has csa and is absolutely
rural, and looks like heaven on earth. the people live simply, it
doesn't strike one as especially for upper middle-class people with
six-digit incomes. the name escapes me right now; however, i found out
about it on the cohousing listserv, because awhile back someone posted a
link to an article written by an 11-year old girl on her cohousing
community. maybe a month or so ago. when i went to the website of the
community, i so fantasized about moving from the town i just moved to,
canceling the offer on the little teeny and low-cost home i just made,
and moving again... fortunately (or unfortunately) there are no units
for sale there right now. i dug a little deeper and found ads for their
houses from 1999 - 2000, and back then they were selling for more than
i'd be comfortable getting a mortgage for...

i know it's off point from the topic of this listserv -- "whatever rut
keeps them at low income" -- but i have a lot to say about that, as well
as wanting to reframe the rather negative and unkind response i blurted
to naomi yesterday. fortunately for everyone who doesn't want me to go
there, i have to return my rental car, and i'm still in my pj's...

cheers,
liza

*Liza*


http://www.TheSecondActofELC.wordpress.com/

[Suzanne Ryan]

Liza--would that be Cobb Hill in Vermont? I checked out the website
and will have to read it more carefully...it sounds like quite a
vibrant community..

As for my remark about low income ruts...I hope I didn't sound like I
was doling out a simplistic prescription for socioeconomic woes. I
was talking strictly from the individual standpoint--how some (or
many) could benefit emotionally from this type of community. Purely
my own speculation, can't back it up with facts or anything.

[E L Cobb]

jeez how could i forget that name... my own last name. that's the one.

[Marganne Meyer]

Tonight I was looking over all the web sites for designing and
building smaller homes -- everything from 84 square feet to more than
1,000 sq ft. Some are modular now, making it much easier to do the
owner/build thing.

Saw a building project done in Buffalo, NY by architecture students.
They each designed their own small, affordable home, then sort of
attached them together in one long wall. Made me wonder if it could
be a way of getting around some of the building codes.

What if anywhere from 5 to 15 of us agree to try and form a small
community of small homes -- urban or rural. If we could agree on a
location, then if we could build whichever type of small house we
wanted, but create a covered walkway (or something) that unified the
separate units as one big unit.

Well, it's a thought.

For those of you who would like to try and work together and form
some sort of community, perhaps the first thing we need to do is
agree on a location. I imagine it would be easier to find out how
zoning and building codes affect a parcel if we had some sample
locations to use as examples.

The other idea is to purchase some commercial property which usually
has less restrictive zoning and codes. I'm just thinking that the
more we look at concrete locations, the more familiar we all will get
with ways that will let us build some sort of community. Could even
be existing homes on the same street that could be rehabbed then
small granny homes could be built on the lots to increase the density
of people and help carry the mortgage load.

I need to say that I'm not terribly eager to try and work with a
government housing agency to make this work. My experience is that
government money for housing takes a long time to get, plus comes
with all sorts of restrictions on what you can or can't build and how
people 'qualify' to live in low-income housing. These programs
haven't yet modernized to allow for alternatives to single-family
dwellings.

At this point, I'd be willing to find one other person who might want
to buy a home that needs some work. I could be a renter which would
contribute to the mortgage with the understanding that I eventually
would create my own inexpensive small house on the same lot.

Another way of doing this would be to find an unusual existing
building that could be repurposed for multiple residents. Like an
abandoned missile silo or abandoned warehouse.

The other thing that might cut down on expenses and make it easier to
get approval to construct is if we all planned to mass produce pretty
much the same units that could come together like apartments. I know
this is a far-out idea, but the only thing that comes to mind right
now are shipping containers (there are many other building
materials). If you've not seen the fabulous things people have done
to shipping containers to create custom living spaces, let me know
and I'll dig up some links.

Guess a lot of that would depend on finding just the right land and
city council who might be looking for something to do with a problem
parcel and would welcome someone revamping it to provide low-income
housing.

I really thing we are on the verge of a new way to look at housing
along with creating towns that can be sustainable. If we could find
the right location and circumstances, perhaps we could create some
fashion of community that could be considered as a model for other
places to emulate.

I'm just sayin'

Cheers!
Marganne

[Brian Bartholomew]

> What if anywhere from 5 to 15 of us agree to try and form a small
> community of small homes -- urban or rural. If we could agree on a
> location, then if we could build whichever type of small house we
> wanted, but create a covered walkway (or something) that unified the

> separate units as one big unit. [...] shipping containers

I am thrilled with oceangoing shipping containers. They are cheap,
strong, robust, and theft resistant. The only foundation they need is
a railroad tie on each end, plus a mobile home tiedown for high winds.
However, they are narrow, eight feet on the outside. You should be
thinking of boat cabins when you design the inside layout. The best
floorplan for living in one will probably be a time-tested arrangement
from a travel trailer of the same length.

But instead of doing all that carpentry and metalwork, you could buy a
ten year old travel trailer in excellent condition from Craigslist. A
dozen like-minded LCCH enthusiasts could all buy travel trailers and
move into an RV park, a really nice one that caters to snowbirds, in a
low-tax county. When your group wants more space, common or private,
you could buy additional travel trailers and park them in additional
spaces. You can probably squeeze in a community garden somewhere.
You could informally share a few cars.

This gives you a cheap buy-in, cheap monthly, incremental expansion in
small chunks, shared common space and as many rooms as you would like;
but doesn't look unusual and doesn't push any zoning buttons. There
is no planning approval delay. A good RV park has most of the common
amenities you want already built.
Brian

[Ron]

Great idea Marganne - as I have mentioned before, I would very much be
interested in exploring the development of a model affordable
community. I think your idea of a cluster of small houses is a very
feasable option - I would want there to be a cohesive plan with design
coordination. I also think using some form of prefabrication and owner
builder involvement (sweat equity) would work well. I just ran across
a new company that is doing prefabs with recycled building material.
There is also the feasability of doing prefabs regionally to save on
shipping costs. I also think the shipping container homes have good
possibilities. For a aesthetic and quality I would stay away from
mobile homes.

Whether I would want to live in the chosen location long term or not,
I would be interested in investing money and/or time in the project to
help get an affordable and creative model established. I would also
agree that keeping free from government money for low income housing
would be good - unless there are some grants available for an
innovative project.

The difficult part, I think, will be finding people willing to agree
on a location - I am open. Have you posted this request on the co-
housing group?

Ron

[Marganne Meyer]

At 9:34 PM -0700 5/3/10, Ron wrote:
>Great idea Marganne - as I have mentioned before, I would very much be
>interested in exploring the development of a model affordable
>community. I think your idea of a cluster of small houses is a very
>feasable option - I would want there to be a cohesive plan with design
>coordination.

In an ideal world, I'd love to have a cohesive plan as well. I'm just
not too sure anyone with experience in developing cohousing projects
would care to become involved with a project that wouldn't give them
much of a profit margin. As for myself, I'll have enough trouble
making sure I could pay for and build my own home without boosting
the price to include developers. Know it's the right way to go, but
low-income is low-income. Perhaps someone would be willing to put
together a development plan for low-income project that could be used
as a template for other models.

>I also think using some form of prefabrication and owner
>builder involvement (sweat equity) would work well. I just ran across
>a new company that is doing prefabs with recycled building material.
>There is also the feasability of doing prefabs regionally to save on
>shipping costs. I also think the shipping container homes have good
>possibilities. For a aesthetic and quality I would stay away from
>mobile homes.

I'm open to manufactured homes, but I'd much prefer prefab modular
homes. From my research, the prices seem right, they are being built
'green', plus they are very flexible for later expansion. If a group
couldn't afford to build, perhaps mobile homes in an existing park
would work. This would be without purchasing the entire park unless
manna from heaven could be found. Guess it's possible that if there
is vacant, buildable land adjacent to the mobile home park, a group
could develop it and include members from the mobile home park.

>Whether I would want to live in the chosen location long term or not,
>I would be interested in investing money and/or time in the project to
>help get an affordable and creative model established. I would also
>agree that keeping free from government money for low income housing
>would be good - unless there are some grants available for an
>innovative project.

Yeah. Grant money has strings. Perhaps if the government starts to
embrace the concept of not having to build only 3 and 4-bedroom homes
for low-income families, it would be less complicated.

>The difficult part, I think, will be finding people willing to agree
>on a location - I am open. Have you posted this request on the co-
>housing group?

Numerable times on the cohousing list. Each time the discussion comes
up about how expensive it is to be part of a regular project, the
issue of low-income participation is raised. That's my cue to talk
about simple living, smaller homes, and less expenses for less square
feet.

Can you think of any other lists that might include people interested
in exploring this concept? I find most people are put off when the
word cohousing is used because there are many misconceptions about
them. I think a cohousing model can be used in many ways to help
people to work together.

This is such a new concept for most people that I think it would be
difficult to put a project together from people who all live in one
area. I could be wrong, but I also see it as being populated more by
singles or couples without large families. Coming from the Baby
Boomer generation, I see a great need to provide communities for us
as we grow older. Not all of us have partners or lots of family
around, for whatever reason.

Guess I just think it would be easier to get people together who have
similar goals and needs. Yet a single parent of one or two kids might
also have the same need.

[Suzanne Ryan]

Some great ideas being tossed around here.

I'm not at the point yet where I'd be willing to leave Massachusetts
for another locale--although if my options ran out here, I'd surely
consider it.

Since I last wrote, I spoke with a woman who is in the process of
forming a co-housing community here. I described my financial
situation and explained that I might not be a good candidate...but she
encouraged me to visit, get involved if I can, and try to work out a
rental.

At this point, they are still trying to negotiate a property purchase,
so this is all planning for some future date.

So I guess the takeaway point there is to consider contacting some co-
housing (perhaps in the formation stage?) and see if there's a place
for you as low income but willing to commit time and effort.

The other thing I learned from her is that, statistically, co-housing
communities don't tend to materialize unless you have at least 8
committed original investors.