Latte in Wiemar chapter 7

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bearsnotice

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May 15, 2022, 2:11:09 PMMay 15
to Lotte in Weimar; book discussion
Have not finished my notes and quotes.  The will follow.
This chapter we hear Mann’s imagined voice of Goethe (to be fair based on deep research), via Mann’s choice to make this chapters stream of consciousness chapter in which Goethe via Mann speaks on his creative process, politics and disdain for the masses to define German culture (a warning?), he bemoans his literary critics, and critics of his venture into science with his book on color and his botany book on plant metamorphosis.  I semi-apologizes for his hold on power and (mis ) use of it as a genius.  Points to the importance of the aged to have a clearer vision on their youth?  Apology of sorts?  He presidents his political views and demeans the movements rising after the victory over Napoleon.  Again wonder about the French Revolution and violence influencing his view.  Not to mention his Napolianionic metal he ware in appropriately after their fall.  There is a deep underlying theme, amping many that capture my interest.  Right now the Metamorphosis and how widely he uses this philosophically.  Not only in rethinking botany, but social order and love, death, art and dying in the context of metamorphosis.  Reminds me of the best of Bob Dyla in the 20th century…e.g, John Wesley Harding and other works during the Vietnam War.

I will share my notes and quotes soon.
Best to all,
s. R.

Jan de Vries

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May 19, 2022, 11:41:55 AMMay 19
to Lotte in Weimar; book discussion
I am giving my comments now before the due date.. coming Sunday.  I need your advice in order to read this chapter. This whole chapter makes no sense to  me. What am I missing?

The first pages seem to replicate a dream. Feelings, images,  no coherence. Then the text seems to change into an internal dialogue. The narrator seems to speak of himself in the third person. I am reading the chapter a second time and again I cannot make any sense of it. It seems to be the free associations of a drunkard or a lunatic. Does Mann try to catch what goes on in the mind of a genius before he structures his thoughts? Then the narrator (nowhere does it say that Goethe is the narrator) replicates a discussion with his servant Carl who ends  every sentence with “Your excellence”. I keep turning the pages trying to find a statement that makes sense. Okay , I find one : “Not this pig-headed craving to be a unique nation … etc, “ talking about Germans.  What am I missing?  Mann is a famous author. I keep trying and I get only more annoyed . He gives me a headache. What am I missing?   Patience? Spend even more time on it?


Jan de Vries

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May 19, 2022, 12:37:29 PMMay 19
to Lotte in Weimar; book discussion
Sarah sent me the comments below in an email

Hi Jon,

Thomas Mann was and admirer of the Irish writer James Joyce who wrote Ulysses. In this great work, Ulysses, Joyce uses the genre of stream of consciousness to play with time and memory. It is my understanding from other reading the Thomas Mann felt competitive with there's other Great anthor of his time.

Other authors who in used this genre include Virginia Woolf, William Faulkner, and Marcel Proust.  Their works include search books as to the lighthouse, as I lay dying, and the search of last time in that order for the above writers.

Like Thomas Mann all of these authors as well as Goethe, ahead of his time, intentionally Play with nonlinear time,  memory and being.


It is my belief Thomas Mann writes in chapter 7 using Stream of consciousness to do as you observe to show Goethe’s the creative process, reflections, imagined experience he has in the return of latte. It is not an easy read but Thomas Mann gives us insight into how he imagines Goethe thinks about German identity, politics, edges reflections as an older man on his days as a young man, and I think two responds to his critics in his time about his words including the theory of color, and the metamorphosis of plants, and how are you plies these concepts to an understanding of life and being.

Hope this helps.

Sarah

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Sarah Robinson

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May 19, 2022, 1:11:02 PMMay 19
to Jan de Vries, Lotte in Weimar; book discussion
Hi I dictated this and did not see the mistakes in it, but was out of time as I have a weekly zoom meeting with my arts collective where we share our works and discuss them in a good inclusive way.  I will edit this and resend it shortly. So sorry about the mistakes I did not catch in the dictation.
Best to all,
Sarah

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On May 19, 2022, at 12:37 PM, Jan de Vries <jdev...@together.net> wrote:

Sarah sent me the comments below in an email
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Sarah Robinson

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May 19, 2022, 1:51:06 PMMay 19
to Jan de Vries, Lotte in Weimar; book discussion
Hi all,
Some short corrections for clarity. Paragraph one: “it is my understanding from other readings that Thomas Mann felt competitive with these other authors in his time.“
Paragraph two: “other authors who used this genre…”.  “These works include books such as “To the lighthouse“, “As I lay dying“, and “The search of Lost Time“.  Paragraph four: stream of consciousness (no cap on Stream).  Goethe’s creative process (no the)…Latte not latte.  … and I think TO (NOT TWO) responses of his critics. (hear what I'm saying is that Thomas Mann who has read all of the published criticisms of GOETHE’S work are incorporated into Mann’s writing of chapter 7 as he imagines Goethe would have responded).
I hope this is less confusing then the first version.  One can only hope.
Best to all,
Sarah

Sent from my iPad

On May 19, 2022, at 1:10 PM, Sarah Robinson <bears...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi I dictated this and did not see the mistakes in it, but was out of time as I have a weekly zoom meeting with my arts collective where we share our works and discuss them in a good inclusive way.  I will edit this and resend it shortly. So sorry about the mistakes I did not catch in the dictation.
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