graphics and paint

[james black]

Greetings:

I wish congratulations to Anthony! I'm sure the P/R fan base will be
with you, and I look forward to seeing new developments.

To my surprise, I don't have much to say about how to improve the P/R
design (and now that the Polyvalent is on the market, the things that
make the P/R different from the Polyvalent are now assets, like the
9/8" threadless headset and sloping top tube, and I can make that
observation even though I somewhat prefer horizontal top tubes and 1"
threaded headsets).

I would recommend using one or more new and distinctive colors, maybe
one of those weird hybrid colors from the Japanese color palette.
Tan-green? Pink-brown? It might be good to have a signature color,
like the Alex Singer blue, or even more relevant, Bianchi's celeste.

I would also recommend developing a careful and complete graphic
identity for the bikes before releasing them - it seems that the lack
of available decals for Kogswells, and the hundreds of requests for
decals and headbadges put out on the KOG list over the years, show us
how important graphics are. The Longleaf logo on the webpage is nice,
so I trust you will have an elegant and coherent set of headtube,
downtube, etc. decals.

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

[Jim G]

On Nov 25, 3:58 pm, james black <chocot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would recommend using one or more new and distinctive colors, maybe
> one of those weird hybrid colors from the Japanese color palette.
> Tan-green? Pink-brown? It might be good to have a signature color,
> like the Alex Singer blue, or even more relevant, Bianchi's celeste.
>
> I would also recommend developing a careful and complete graphic
> identity for the bikes before releasing them - it seems that the lack
> of available decals for Kogswells, and the hundreds of requests for
> decals and headbadges put out on the KOG list over the years, show us
> how important graphics are. The Longleaf logo on the webpage is nice,
> so I trust you will have an elegant and coherent set of headtube,
> downtube, etc. decals.
>

I like the rich, moca brown used in the text on the
Longleafbicycles.com header graphic:

http://www.longleafbicycles.com/wp-content/themes/longleaf/images/header_bg.gif

And the muted spring green (or white) would make great, simple
downtube decals, in the vein of the BDB Pelican or the Boxer Cycles
Randonneur:

http://www.boxdogbikes.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/pelican-close-ups008.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GBS0YemTMkQ/StQSVbHzMSI/AAAAAAAAADM/Z8kd0ieRRYE/s1600-h/DSC_4393.shopmission.sml.jpg


I also really like Anthony's white-PC'd customized P/R, and the moca-
brown color might make for great decals against that color as well.


And yes, the obvious head tube badge!


-Jim G

[james black]

On Wed, Nov 25, 2009 at 16:10, Jim G <yoj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I also really like Anthony's white-PC'd customized P/R, and the moca-
> brown color might make for great decals against that color as well.

That would be nice. I also like the rich brown.

While we're talking graphics, I would like to air my gripe - it annoys
me to see the same Rene Herse-style typeface on both the bdb Pelican
and the Velo Orange. I can only conjecture that this is a free
downloadable font somewhere, although I don't know what it is called.
So annoying! This typeface merely looks derivative and retro, and I
don't mean that in a good way - it has not aged gracefully.

It would be possible to do decals in the same style as the great
constructeur heroes, without copying a dated typeface! The Boxer bike
looks nice.

James Black

[Esteban]

I agree with you guys. The dark brown is similar to something I have
in mind for when I get a Joe Bell job for my now clear powder coated
Riv/Nobilette Protovelo.

I think a bron bicycle with white and green decals; and a white
bicycle with brown and green decals would offer two very good
choices. Anthony's white P/R looked stellar, and many folks prefer a
white bike. But others don't, and the brown would be cool.

It can be kind of cartoonish, but I like the colors that come up on
the Metrofiets cargo bikes. They're certainly creative.

In terms of font, I like the font used on the Longleaf logo - kind of
California Conservation Corps modernism. Forward looking rather than
back. Very cool.

Esteban
San Diego, Calif.

[Anthony King]

The graphic designer worked up downtube logos along with the
headbadge. He gave me a few colors options.

http://picasaweb.google.com/longleafbicycles/LongleafLogosAndGraphics#

[Esteban]

Goodness gracious, Anthony. This guy is good. Well, you've got your
color palette. In addition to the one on your website, I
*especially* like the middle two on the top row very much with the
redd-ish color in there. The brown and blue on the bottom is also
lovely.

[Jacob Isleib]

These all look crazy good.  That blue and brown is outstanding!

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[james black]

Excellent! I like everything there.

Back to pontificating on the subject of P/R versus Polyvalent - I
perceive the Polyvalent to be more retro, what with the 1" threaded
and the horizontal top tube, and the P/R to be more
contemporary/timeless. I have thought about this distinction a bit in
building up my own bikes - I have 70s/80s road bike frames that I
think are best built up with period components, but my two custom
bikes (counting my Swift Folder for the moment) are built up in a way
that is more timeless, I think, and the use of older parts is
incidental rather than necessary. On both my cargo bike and my Swift,
I believe that a TIG-welded threadless steel stem painted to match the
frame is the best complement to a TIG-welded steel frameset, whereas
on the older bikes, a forged aluminum quill stem is best. The P/R
likewise might be best built up with a TIG-welded steel 9/8"
threadless stem, whereas the Polyvalent with an aluminum quill stem.

In keeping with this theme, the P/R should have painted-to-match
fenders, and the Polyvalent should have shiny fenders.

James Black

[jim g]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Jacob Isleib <fort...@gmail.com> wrote:
> These all look crazy good.  That blue and brown is outstanding!
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 6:01 AM, Anthony King <longleaf...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> The graphic designer worked up downtube logos along with the
>> headbadge. He gave me a few colors options.
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/longleafbicycles/LongleafLogosAndGraphics#

I would produce ALL of those color variations for the decals and have
a supply on hand, then let the customer pick his/her choice of frame
color and decal set. Bontrager MTB frames were sold this way, and
there's an endless variety to them even still. It's another way to
add a distinctive, personalized touch to your bike, and (from a
business standpoint) an easy and low-cost(?) way to differentiate
yourself from the competition.

And maybe sell matching cable housing to boot. ;)

-Jim G

--
jimg at yojimg dot net

[jim g]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:16 AM, james black <choc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Back to pontificating on the subject of P/R versus Polyvalent - I
> perceive the Polyvalent to be more retro, what with the 1" threaded
> and the horizontal top tube, and the P/R to be more
> contemporary/timeless. I have thought about this distinction a bit in
> building up my own bikes - I have 70s/80s road bike frames that I
> think are best built up with period components, but my two custom
> bikes (counting my Swift Folder for the moment) are built up in a way
> that is more timeless, I think, and the use of older parts is
> incidental rather than necessary.

I like to think of my P/R as a "contemporary interpretation of a
classic French randonneuring bicycle". While it's built up with a
mishmash of components, nothing (aside from maybe the 1990's DX front
derailleur) could even be considered "vintage". I've even tried to
carry this theme through with the Zugster rando bag, which is a
contemporary interpretation of a classic front bag design done up in
modern materials (Cordura, PVC, coroplast, etc.).

[On a very tangential note, I'd LOVE to see this concept carried to
the extreme, by someone "constructeur-ing" a full carbon frame/fork,
with integrated carbon front rack, fenders, lighting, etc. While
carbon bikes are not to my taste, I think this would be a very
interesting exercise. Oregon Manifest Constructeurs' Challenge, are
you listening?!?]

> On both my cargo bike and my Swift,
> I believe that a TIG-welded threadless steel stem painted to match the
> frame is the best complement to a TIG-welded steel frameset, whereas
> on the older bikes, a forged aluminum quill stem is best. The P/R
> likewise might be best built up with a TIG-welded steel 9/8"
> threadless stem, whereas the Polyvalent with an aluminum quill stem.

Ooh, that'd be nice! I agree completely, though I have a penchant for
chromoly stems. Steel stems also allow interesting alterations such
as brazed on bell mounts, decaleurs, Tony P's integrated U-lock, etc.
that you just can't do with an aluminum stem.

> In keeping with this theme, the P/R should have painted-to-match
> fenders, and the Polyvalent should have shiny fenders.

Yes, as long as the P/R isn't black. IMHO, a black frame with black
fenders looks, well, too Amish or "Model-T"ish for my tastes. (And a
big +1 to Bertoud stays...never again will I fuss with eyebolts!)

[Will]

On Nov 26, 4:13 pm, jim g <yoj...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, as long as the P/R isn't black.  IMHO, a black frame with black
> fenders looks, well, too Amish or "Model-T"ish for my tastes.  

Yes it does look a bit boring... but you know... when you're visiting
bike racks here, there, and everywhere... low key is kinda nice. Where
I am (big University town) it's not uncommon for wheels to get
stomped. The yokels will trash your bike for sport.

[james black]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 14:13, jim g <yoj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, as long as the P/R isn't black.  IMHO, a black frame with black
> fenders looks, well, too Amish or "Model-T"ish for my tastes.  (And a
> big +1 to Bertoud stays...never again will I fuss with eyebolts!)

I love the Model-T look, not only because I like the color black in
general, but because of its Model T-ness; its symbolic role as the
"functionalist" paint color; the fact that its the only color that
looks appropriate with a mix of black and silver components; its ease
of touching up; the rumor I once heard that one of the Kraftwerk guys
has a fleet of bicycles that are all black; and lots of precedents of
black constructeur bikes. Black is the color of serious bikes. I might
agree with you that black bikes benefit little from having
color-matched fenders, though.

I like colored paint on bikes too.

If I ran a bike company, I think each frameset would be issued in two
colors - one would be the brand's house standard signature color
(which would probably be black if it were my house, especially if my
name were on the door), and the other would be a special color for
each model. Having the signature color as a backup would allow the
special color to be wild or not to everybody's taste, and still
support the image of a coherent identity for the brand.