Up For Grabs - Stratasys FDM 1650 Commercial 3D Printer

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Harry Eakins

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Mar 29, 2011, 6:19:25 PM3/29/11
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Hi everyone,

I've found someone in my university who has a Stratasys FDM 1650 which they want to get rid of. It's a commercial 3D printer based on the same idea as the RepRap - Fused Deposition Modelling.

It is apparently broken but fixable. The lab which is throwing it out has not extended their service contract and they have a much better machine now anyway. I saw it today and it looks in good condition.

The FDM 1650 uses ABM filament and a support material (so it has 2 extruders). It's about the size of a large fridge. There's a guy who's blogging about repairing an FDM 1650 - http://3d4u.org/MyFDM/

I was going to have it in our Robotics Society but I doubt we have the time/space to make good use of it. Is there anyone here who would like this machine?

--
Harry Eakins
ICRS Pres. | Imperial College London
(+44) 7818084877

Martin Klang

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Mar 29, 2011, 6:41:08 PM3/29/11
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yes please!

I'd be happy to be part of a team working in this in the 'space.

(goddang, what have I just volunteered for?!)

/m

Jasper Wallace

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Mar 29, 2011, 6:57:41 PM3/29/11
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Looks interesting, do we need special software to drive it? would that
come with the machine?

Do you have any idea what kind of software tool chain is needed?

Also, any idea about availability and prices of feedstock?

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

Sci

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Mar 29, 2011, 7:32:28 PM3/29/11
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Flicking back through the site of the guy repairing one..

Feedstock material sounds like it needs drying first or is otherwise
moisture sensitive. Also sounds like it's expensive, but both that site
and http://haveblue.org/ seem to be testing alternatives to the own-brand.

Sounds like a very interesting machine to have a look at, though it also
sounds like it's got a lot of own-brand quirks and design choices that
may be tricky to work around. It sounds like it can be repaired but be
aware it sounds like a vendor-locked product.

I have no personal experience with the machine, this is just what it
seems from skimming those websites.

It is nice to see a machine using a wire-drive mechanism tho. I was
already considering it for my own reprap design.

~ Sci
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Nigel Worsley

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Mar 29, 2011, 7:33:52 PM3/29/11
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> I've found someone in my university who has a Stratasys FDM 1650 which they want to get rid of

That looks like it will be way better than the cupcake, and capable of much bigger models. But the bit that
gets me really excited is that searching on the internet suggests that one of the available materials for it is
described as "investment casting wax", now that we have a kiln it would be possible to turn designs into
solid metal objects. It is a bit on the big side, but I think it would get more than enough use to justify the
space required for it.

Nigle

Russ Garrett

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Mar 29, 2011, 9:24:15 PM3/29/11
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, Nigel Worsley
On 30 March 2011 00:33, Nigel Worsley <nig...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> That looks like it will be way better than the cupcake, and capable of much
> bigger models.

The bit that really kills everything is the fact that it costs $100 in
consumables to print something which costs $2 on a Makerbot.

It would be great to get hold of one of these pieces of kit, but only
to take it apart. There's no way we could run one as-is. It's the
ultimate conclusion of the Gilette business model.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

Earthshine

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Mar 30, 2011, 3:00:04 AM3/30/11
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Would it be possible to swap the printing head for something more like
the cupcake?

Mike Harrison

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Mar 30, 2011, 4:37:50 AM3/30/11
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How different is the extruder? Could it not be adapted to use the Makerbot plastic?

Russ Garrett

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Mar 30, 2011, 5:18:16 AM3/30/11
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, Mike Harrison
On 30 March 2011 09:37, Mike Harrison <mi...@whitewing.co.uk> wrote:
> How different is the extruder? Could it not be adapted to use the Makerbot plastic?

I have no idea, but that's what I mean by taking it apart. I just
don't want to give anyone the impression that we won't mercilessly
dismantle it.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

Billy

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Mar 30, 2011, 6:03:30 AM3/30/11
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Is there an after-market for 3d-printer refills, same as the print-
cartridge refill kits?

On Mar 30, 10:18 am, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
> On 30 March 2011 09:37, Mike Harrison <m...@whitewing.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > How different is the extruder? Could it not be adapted to use the Makerbot plastic?
>
> I have no idea, but that's what I mean by taking it apart. I just
> don't want to give anyone the impression that we won't mercilessly
> dismantle it.
>
> --
> Russ Garrett
> r...@garrett.co.uk

Harry Eakins

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Mar 30, 2011, 8:36:04 AM3/30/11
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The guys offering it dont mind what you do. They just want to get rid of it. He said something about a form that will need to be filled out when its picked up. Nothing major I guess but Ill ask more about it.

So yeah, if you guys want to take it, when's convenient? I cant drive unfortunately so someone's going to have to step up. The printer is at our campus in south Ken.

Nigel Worsley

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Mar 30, 2011, 8:48:24 AM3/30/11
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> The guys offering it dont mind what you do. They just want to get rid of it.

Worst case, we can strip it for parts. There has to be at least 5 stepper motors in there.

Nigle

Sci

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Mar 30, 2011, 9:27:26 AM3/30/11
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I may be mistaken, but one of the sites hacking them seems to have had
feedstock custom produced to feed it and re-wind used cartridges. So
that's still cheaper than buying stock from the supplier? Ouch..

But check those sites first. The information is there, if a bit buried.
Converting the print heads looks like it would also require either
altering on-board ROM chips to reset self-calibration height, or
building a totally different control board too.

I say get it and *carefully* analyse it, then weigh the options. Do we
have a CSI team?

~ Sci

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Russ Garrett

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Mar 30, 2011, 9:33:33 AM3/30/11
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, Sci
On 30 March 2011 14:27, Sci <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> I may be mistaken, but one of the sites hacking them seems to have had
> feedstock custom produced to feed it and re-wind used cartridges. So
> that's still cheaper than buying stock from the supplier? Ouch..

I have heard - and this may be apocryphal - that the build platform
for a Z-Corp machine costs more than a Makerbot and it's only good for
~10 prints.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

Dirk-Willem van Gulik

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Mar 30, 2011, 10:20:15 AM3/30/11
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Hmm - but just the steppers, stiff stage and leadscrews may be worth it - so happy to commit (of someone else) can get it to the hackspace - to disassembling it carefully - and in such a way that the X/Y/Z part is still usable, say, for a router ?

Dw.

Sci

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Mar 31, 2011, 7:35:48 PM3/31/11
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On 29/03/2011 23:19, Harry Eakins wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've found someone in my university who has a Stratasys FDM 1650 which
> they want to get rid of. It's a commercial 3D printer based on the same
> idea as the RepRap - Fused Deposition Modelling

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fused_deposition_modeling>.


>
> It is apparently broken but fixable. The lab which is throwing it out
> has not extended their service contract and they have a much better
> machine now anyway. I saw it today and it looks in good condition.
>
> The FDM 1650 uses ABM filament and a support material (so it has 2
> extruders). It's about the size of a large fridge. There's a guy who's
> blogging about repairing an FDM 1650 - http://3d4u.org/MyFDM/
>
> I was going to have it in our Robotics Society but I doubt we have the
> time/space to make good use of it. Is there anyone here who would like
> this machine?
>
> --
> Harry Eakins
> ICRS Pres. | Imperial College London
> (+44) 7818084877

Someone IS going to go get this, right? If not I will take a *hand
trolley* over there to collect it if need be.
I will be a Wille-E-Coyote shaped cloud of dust in front of your eyes.

Is there a deadline on collecting it?

~ Sci


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Billy

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Mar 31, 2011, 8:13:26 PM3/31/11
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>
> Someone IS going to go get this, right? If not I will take a *hand
> trolley* over there to collect it if need be.
> I will be a Wille-E-Coyote shaped cloud of dust in front of your eyes.
>
> Is there a deadline on collecting it?
>
> ~ Sci

I'll help.

Let me know when...


Nigel Worsley

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Mar 31, 2011, 8:27:25 PM3/31/11
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> Someone IS going to go get this, right?

I certainly hope so.

> If not I will take a *hand trolley* over there to collect it if need be.

For maximum points you need to bring it to the space by tube and NOT using disabled
accessible stations.:-)

And somebody really should film it happening...

Nigle

Sci

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Mar 31, 2011, 9:27:23 PM3/31/11
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Sadly I no longer have my delta-wheeled sack barrow.

It's only a 5 mile walk overground tho, according to google. It can't
weigh more than 30kg, right? Right?

~ Sci
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Toby Catlin

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Apr 1, 2011, 3:21:34 AM4/1/11
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if it fits in a mini, i'll drive it

t

asc

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Apr 1, 2011, 5:54:11 AM4/1/11
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, Toby Catlin
On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Toby Catlin <to...@korfball.com> wrote:
> if it fits in a mini, i'll drive it
> t
>
> On 1 April 2011 02:27, Sci <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
>>

I can help out with lifting any any grunt work if that helps.

-Steve

Tim Hutt

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Apr 1, 2011, 6:35:35 AM4/1/11
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, Toby Catlin
On 1 April 2011 08:21, Toby Catlin <to...@korfball.com> wrote:
> if it fits in a mini, i'll drive it
> t

From the photos on that blog it looks like it would need a van.

Billy

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Apr 1, 2011, 6:47:24 AM4/1/11
to London Hackspace

I called Harry to have a chat. He's dropping down to the space later
today. I'll be around to meet up with him.

We have around 3 weeks before the machine goes elsewhere.

Sizewise, the machine is about the size of a large fridge. Probably
wouldn't fit in a mini. I'm chasing up mate's that have vans.

Printbed-size is 500mm by 500mm by 350mm! It's designed for full-scale
production runs!

We're getting it. If it turns out not to be suitable for here, then
the members of East London Inventors Club would like it.

Running costs are a question. Russ's remembering is about right, think
it was Adrian Bowyer that mentioned this at NESTA. That said we can
adapt it if necessary. And yes this is me volunteering to do it.

I'll get it sorted one way or another.

On Apr 1, 11:35 am, Tim Hutt <tdh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Adrian Godwin

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Apr 1, 2011, 6:57:54 AM4/1/11
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On Fri, Apr 1, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Billy <bi...@billycomputersmith.com> wrote:

I called Harry to have a chat. He's dropping down to the space later
today. I'll be around to meet up with him.

We have around 3 weeks before the machine goes elsewhere.


I could do it on that sort of timescale, but would need to do evening or weekend pickup.

-adrian

Harry Eakins

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Apr 1, 2011, 7:28:10 AM4/1/11
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I think a weekday pickup between 9 and 5 would be preferable.

A quick search shows that a similar machine (FDM 3000) weighs 160kg - http://bit.ly/i3lkUp

They'll be able to offer a hand-trolley for loading at Imperial.

Other than that, the sooner it gets picked up the better! I'd like a couple of days notice before pickup though. :)

Martin Klang

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Apr 1, 2011, 9:39:48 AM4/1/11
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I can pick it up with my mini-van this weekend, if I get a helper to come along.
Saturday 2pm?

/m

tom

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Apr 1, 2011, 11:07:19 AM4/1/11
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http://wiki.makerbot.com/forum/t-284930

that might be useful

On Apr 1, 12:28 pm, Harry Eakins <harry.eak...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I think a weekday pickup between 9 and 5 would be preferable.
>
> A quick search shows that a similar machine (FDM 3000) weighs 160kg
> -http://bit.ly/i3lkUp

Have Blue

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Apr 1, 2011, 12:41:15 PM4/1/11
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I hope you fellows don't scavenge it for steppers and such - assuming
it's in working shape, it should be quite a nice machine. While they
do have some quirks, they're quite minor, and you'll probably be able
to get up to speed quite quickly with the unit.

Moving does require a suitably sized vehicle - I had to borrow my
dad's pickup truck to move my 1600, and it needs 2-3 people to wrangle
it around. Putting it on some sort of wheeled base should be the
first thing you do.

You _can_ use Makerbot plastic (which is Chi Mei PA-747 ABS), but it's
not a great material to run in the Stratasys. While I had my own
material extruded, I knew I could sell the extra to other people
interested in experimenting with alternative materials. You certainly
don't need to go to such lengths - Bolson Materials (http://
bolsonmaterials.com/) seems to have much better pricing than buying
the original material (especially in the UK), and I understand that
the PP3DP filament (http://www.pp3dp.com/index.php?
page=shop.product_details&flypage=garden_flypage.tpl&product_id=3&category_id=3&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37&vmcchk=1&Itemid=37)
is a lot closer to the Stratasys material than the Makerbot plastic
(though I haven't yet tried it myself).

Let John (http://3d4u.org/MyFDM/) or myself (http://haveblue.org/)
know if you need any help or guidance on getting it running.

- Michael aka 'Have Blue'
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla -http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

Russ Garrett

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Apr 1, 2011, 2:12:08 PM4/1/11
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, Have Blue
On 1 April 2011 17:41, Have Blue <haveb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope you fellows don't scavenge it for steppers and such - assuming
> it's in working shape, it should be quite a nice machine.  While they
> do have some quirks, they're quite minor, and you'll probably be able
> to get up to speed quite quickly with the unit.

Thanks for the info - that's encouraging! We certainly won't take it
apart if we can make it work in its current state.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

Harry Eakins

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Apr 1, 2011, 3:18:35 PM4/1/11
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No sorry, I should rephrase that. The pickup will have to be on a weekday sometime between 9 and 5. The key-holder won't be in otherwise.

If no-one can make it, then I can ask about some special arrangements, but it'd be a tonne of hassle on my side. I'd rather it go when they're in! :)

Tim Hutt

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Apr 1, 2011, 3:56:45 PM4/1/11
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Hey, this may be crazy, but I could move it to the lab I work in next Friday, and then someone can pick it up at the weekend. Possibly. If it is necessary.

On Apr 1, 2011 8:18 PM, "Harry Eakins" <harry....@googlemail.com> wrote:

Elliot West

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Apr 1, 2011, 3:59:06 PM4/1/11
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This is very useful information - thank you!

On 1 April 2011 17:41, Have Blue <haveb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Martin Klang

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Apr 1, 2011, 9:39:24 PM4/1/11
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okay, I should be able to do that - just need one person to come with (only one passenger seat in the van).

/m

Billy

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Apr 2, 2011, 3:03:04 AM4/2/11
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Thanks Martin.

I've also got two other offers of vans which can make it on a weekday.
One of them won't be available till after Monday, he only gets back
from touring on Sunday night, the other is available anytime, though
his van isn't as big.

Otherwise i'll be there with you to move it.

Gausie

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Apr 1, 2011, 7:41:14 PM4/1/11
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I'll be happy to put it in my estate if we can't find a suitable van.

Gausie

On Apr 1, 12:28 pm, Harry Eakins <harry.eak...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I think a weekday pickup between 9 and 5 would be preferable.
>
> A quick search shows that a similar machine (FDM 3000) weighs 160kg
> -http://bit.ly/i3lkUp

Billy

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Apr 6, 2011, 4:47:51 PM4/6/11
to London Hackspace

Myfriend, Charles Seber, has confirmed that he's able to pick it up
for us. He needed a new starter motor, is why the delay.

I've arranged with Harry to pick it up on Friday, and drop it to the
space.

We'll need to check what software is needed to run it, and i'll start
looking for maintenance manuals.

Yes, i'm googling those, and i'll post the links here, but if you come
across anything that i've missed, please tell me.

Thank you.

Harry Eakins

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Apr 8, 2011, 7:27:34 AM4/8/11
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Billy and Charles have picked the machine up and are on their way to the Hackspace now with it.

They'll probably need a hand getting it in!
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