Culture of Clean (beware, long read)

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SheraDreaming

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Sep 7, 2011, 1:51:49 PM9/7/11
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Hi all,

Seeing what there is and isn't available in terms of cleaning
supplies, I'm convinced that a major step in helping the space stay
clean would be to organize all the tools & supplies and to label them
according to their uses in a place that is accessible and not prone to
getting stuff all piled up in it. So, not under the sink, because out
of sight is out of mind and the more barriers we put in people's way,
the less likely they are to clean.

Bottom line: we need to make it -easy- to clean. That means reducing
unconscious resistance in every way we can. We need a cleaning
station.


So here is a proposal: (and yes I think we should do this whether
or not a cleaner becomes a reality)

1) Divide the space into "cleaning zones"-- bathroom #1, #2, kitchen,
quiet room, etc.

Zones should each be small enough that cleaning one whole zone seems
"easy" and not overwhelming. It helps if each zone has a certain
amount of "task homogeneity" too, so no one would be stuck with too
many kinds of things to do. More types of tasks = more unconscious
resistance = less cleaning gets done. We could either divide broadly
according to rooms/parts of rooms, or according to type of cleaning--
ie. flat surfaces, carpets, wet zones.

2) Create a large drawer at about thigh height for each zone. [1]

The drawer size should be determined by looking at the size of a
filled cleaning caddy [2], and adding a mesh basket [3] and clothes
pegs along the back of each drawer for tools to dry in. Each drawer
will contain a cleaning caddy with the substances to be used for
cleaning, and the basket contains the tools for that cleaning and
rubber gloves. The drawers are well-ventilated so items can dry
inside, instead of cluttering up surfaces while they dry. With these
drawers, when you want to clean an area you just proceed to that
drawer, pull out the caddy and go. When done, put the caddy back, the
wet tools in the mesh basket and close.

3) Document locations and processes.

Each drawer is labelled on the outside with its cleaning zone name in
a different bright colour. Underneath that, ideally a labeller is used
to uniformly list on the drawer everything that is in there, including
mixture percentages if we make our own cleaners.

Detailed step-by-step instructions for exactly how to clean each zone
should be typed onto fluorescent card in large font, with a very clear
zone title, and laminated. The card colour should match the
appropriate drawer label and the instructions should live in the
appropriate cleaning caddy.

4) Extra stock drawer, mixing surface, and wall hoooks/standing
cabinet for brooms and mops.

One additional drawer should be made to hold a small amount of
overstock, especially if we opt to go the cheap and sustainable route
and mix up our own cleaning products. Large containers of vinegar,
baking soda (for scouring grit) and lemon juice, for example, could be
kept here, along with empty spray bottles for decanting, white latex
sponges, etc. Also, multiple extra copies of the laminated
instructions for each drawer can be kept here. Lastly, on the outside
of this drawer is a clipboard hanging up, and the clipboard has an
ongoing cleaning supply shopping list on it.

Above the drawers, or nearby, there should be a small mixing surface
with more than one measuring cup and the instructions on how to mix
the substances for each cleaning zone, what concentrations, etc.
There should also be some way of labelling the empty spray bottles
when people make up a mixture, so that we never have unidentified
substances sitting around in multiple bottles. Possibly we could
colour-code the bottles as well.

And finally, we should store the brooms, mops, pails and vacuum
cleaner nearby. A standing cabinet would be ideal. Wall hooks would
go part of the way. Either way, every cleaning thing needs a home at
the cleaning station, even if it's just a nook in a corner with a
white curtain to pull across. Instant closet.

5) Reference materials.

I propose we buy one or both of these books, which cover everything
from carpets to wood to ceiling tiles to pest invasions to anything
you can think of. I own the first and can attest to its greatness,
and the second has had rave reviews ever since the first copies were
sent out to reviewers. Yes we can google, but it doesn't cut it
sometimes.

Real Simple Cleaning [4]
Martha Stewart's Homekeeping Handbook [5]

--------

So, as you can see what I'm proposing is a cleaning station.

Yes we may plan to have a cleaner, but the cleaner can be asked to use
the on-site supplies, especially if people have chemical
sensitivities. He/she can advise us on best practices to improve our
system. There are also times when there won't be a cleaner available,
and I believe that at all events we should work towards self-
sufficiency.

Yes this may seem overly-complicated, but if we put a good system in
place then it will help immensely towards producing in the space a
permanent culture of clean.

Thoughts?

Shera

---------
[1] High drawer: http://bit.ly/oFHpyQ
[2] Cleaning caddy: http://bit.ly/prp8rd
[3] Mesh basket similar to this but cheaper! : http://bit.ly/mQFaL6
[4] Real Simple cleaning book: http://amzn.to/psiYDa
[5] Martha Stewart cleaning book: http://amzn.to/ptcs2e

Sam Kelly

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Sep 7, 2011, 2:04:26 PM9/7/11
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I like these plans, especially the focus on removing barriers rather than on incentives or encouragement.

I'd suggest not using fluorescent card for the instructions - I find it harder to read, and even to look at, things written on fluoro than on normal card, and I've heard others say the same. Maybe we should use black on white with a zone-specific fluoro border?

I'd also suggest adding a couple of "cleaning in progress" signs for toilet doors, and a couple of "Wet Floor" A-frame whatchamacallits.

--
Sam Kelly, http://www.eithin.co.uk/

That's it.  We're not messing around anymore, we're buying a bigger dictionary.  -  Tibor Fischer, The Thought Gang.

SheraDreaming

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Sep 7, 2011, 3:15:24 PM9/7/11
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All great ideas Sam, thank you.

Following your train of thought regarding the toilets, a set of
kneepads would be nice too, for crawling around cleaning behind
toilets and/or spot cleaning the carpet. Vacuum being loud putting
people off? We could provide ear defenders, etc. Barriers begone.

The question is--where in the space do we have room for this?

Robert Leverington

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Sep 7, 2011, 3:31:43 PM9/7/11
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I think this is a great idea, and would love to help implement it.

I'll see what sort of stuff we have already that would be suitable for
building a cleaning station tomorrow.

Robert

Mark Steward

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Sep 7, 2011, 5:02:06 PM9/7/11
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This is full-on awesome.

I'd just like to add that whoever wrote the "last cleaned on (some date)" on the toilet seat in chalk is a genius.  Unfortunately I don't have a photo.


Mark


On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 6:51 PM, SheraDreaming <killas...@gmail.com> wrote:

Cepmender

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Sep 8, 2011, 12:07:01 AM9/8/11
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Yes, it is overcomplicated!
I am the Premises Manager for a largish school, and my cleaners do the entire building with a lot less fuss.

The core tasks here are a good swab out of the bogs once a week, and the same for the kitchen and wet lab. 
Spot cleaning as required of tables and worktops and occasional vacuum cleaning of the carpets.  
The kitchen apparatus and worksurfaces will need cleaning after use, mild detergent will suffice for most of this, if the oven is wiped out after each use there should be no need for industrial strength chemicals.
The workshop floor only needs a good sweep/vacuum as required, the surface does not require mopping in its current state. .

So, all that is required for cleaning our excellent space is.... 

Two mops/buckets, one for the lavatories (red) and one for the kitchen (yellow).
Three small hand buckets (Lavs, Kitchen,other areas (blue)
A supply of each colour of (semi)disposable cloth. ("J cloth" or similar)
Abrasive pads/sponges.
Rubber Gloves

Hard surface cleaner, the sort in a trigger spray bottle, preferably tree hugger grade.
Floor cleaner, "Flash" or similar.
Simple detergent, "Ecover" or similar.

added to the above an efficient vacuum cleaner for the carpets and a semi-stiff brush for the workshop floor.

All the above (except the mops/brushes) will fit into the cupboard under the sink with room for a stock of black plastic bags. A notice stating "Cleaning materials only" should ensure that extraneous matter is not introduced.

Suggested that mops be kept on the balcony along with a small washing line/drying rack for wet cloths to ensure that they do not fester between uses.

As for detailed instructions, a simple list of tasks should be sufficient. It really is not difficult to work out how to use a mop or a wet cloth.

A log sheet showing the last time each area was done will avoid duplication of effort. 

The idea that people do not clean because they cannot work out what to do is rather strange, needing two books and numerous worksheets to enlighten them is just plain laughable. Not knowing where to find the cleaning kit is a slightly better excuse, but the people who DO clean here (and there are several, all of them deserving of our appreciation) seem to have worked it out without much trouble. 

The simple way to help those who volunteer to do the regular tasks is to CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF. Leaving crap where it falls is far from the excellence expected and will bring bad karma upon you.

Let the bikeshedding begin.....











--- On Wed, 7/9/11, SheraDreaming <killas...@gmail.com> wrote:
will contain a cleaning caddy with the substances to be used foru

cleaning, and the basket contains the tools for that cleaning and
rubber gloves.  The drawers are well-ventilated so items can dry
inside, instead of cluttering up surfaces while they dry.  With these
drawers, when you want to clean an area you just proceed to that
drawer, pull out the caddy and go.  When done, put the caddy back, the
wet tools in the mesh basket and close.

3)  Document locations and processes.

Each drawer is labelled on the outside with its cleaning zone name in
a different bright colour. Underneath that, ideally a labeller is used
to uniformly list on the drawer everything that is in there, including
mixture percentages if we make our own cleaners.

Detailed step-by-step instructions for exactly how to clean each zone
should be typed onto fluorescent card in large font, with a very clear
zone title, and laminated.  The card colour should match the
appropriate drawer label and the instructions should live in the
appropriate cleaning caddy.

4) Extra stock drawer, mixing surface, and wall hoooks/standing
cabinet for brooms and mops.

One additional drawer should be made to hold a small amount of
overstock, especially if we opt to go the cheap and sustainable route
and mix up our own cleaning products.  Large containers of vinegar,
baking soda (for scouring grit) and lemon juice, for example, could be
kept here, along with empty spray bottles for decanting, white latex
sponges, etc.  Also, multiple extra copies of the laminated
instructions for each drawer can be kept here.  Lastly, on the outsideu

SheraDreaming

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Sep 8, 2011, 8:24:09 PM9/8/11
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Cepmender, what do you believe is the reason people don't clean then?
You are insisting that everyone knows what to do, supplies are not
difficult to find, and it is just laziness?

I have to heartily disagree. People will generally help out if the
cost-reward ratio for them, including time, is not too bad. Here,
people are put off by all the PITAs in keeping things clean--finding
supplies, reading labels, figuring out what to do so it is done
"properly" so as not to invite criticism, etc. Get rid of all the
PITA prep and lay things out step-by-step and there will be an
increase in buy-in.

Maybe the difference is that you are familiar with the details of
cleaning in your career, so you know what it entails and that it is
not hard. Most of our membership has minimal experience with those
details, so it doesn't look easy. This project is about making it
look easy.

Yes, the tasks are not that complicated, but the problem is that there
is a -perception- that they are, will take too much time, be too
draining to bother, etc.

Yes, basic maintenance is the easy part and doesn't require too many
tools, you're right. But the steep climb has to come first, which is
to get everything into a decent state before simple maintenance can
begin. And if you honestly believe someone is going to clean the hot
oven every time it is used, sorry, this is not accurate.

Yes, you're right that we do not need all kinds of supplies (see
vinegar comments), so I think your expertise would be a great addition
when we need to decide on what necessities we do need.

Finally, let me point out that your cleaners who clean your premises
well are professionals who are paid to do that on a daily basis,
unlike our membership, who pay to be here. Additionally, you
supervise them and do not do the cleaning yourself, so I have to
question your apparent assertion that you are an expert in how to make
the process of cleaning itself more manageable. Keeping things under
the sink is a lousy idea because it's dark, it's jumbled, and it's
disorganized, simply be virtue of the fact that things are not clearly
visually compartmentalized and visually available. Out of sight,
cleaning things will remain out of mind. There is an inescapable
"yuck" factor, and jumbles of stuff in buckets will dissuade anyone
moreso than aesthetically-pleasing, accessible solutions would do.

Mops on the balcony may also be a tripping hazard in a fire.

The bottom line is that people are not going to perform cleaning
tasks, regularly, for free, forever, if the process is additionally
damned annoying. Right now, it certainly is.

cepm...@yahoo.co.uk

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Sep 9, 2011, 2:41:00 AM9/9/11
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I will try to address all your queries step by step. My comments are
largely confined to the issues regarding the "clean" areas of the space,
the tasks here are similar in size and scope to those one might encounter
at home. The workshop has its own problems that are beyond the scope of
this dissertation. Those issues are, in the main, addressed by the users
of the processes that create them.


On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 01:24:09 +0100, SheraDreaming <killas...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Cepmender, what do you believe is the reason people don't clean then?
> You are insisting that everyone knows what to do, supplies are not
> difficult to find, and it is just laziness?

I am saying no such thing. I am saying that there is no need to provide
detailed instructions for tasks that most of us do anyway in other
contexts and that provision of a few basic materials in a clearly marked
space is all that is required to facilitate those who wish to. I believe
that the main reason for disinclination to clean is not laziness or lack
of knowledge or supplies but rather that most users of the space have
limited time and wish to spend that time on their own work and not that of
the community. They may also think "I`m not making the place dirty, why
should I clean". Given that most users create very little cleaning work
this is not too surprising. If those people stick to the basics, as the
majority do, (putting away equipment, putting dirty cups in the
dishwasher, clearing up their own food remains etc.)thus limiting their
impact on the space, then that of itself goes a long way towards making
the space more pleasant and the cleaning more manageable.


> I have to heartily disagree. People will generally help out if the
> cost-reward ratio for them, including time, is not too bad. Here,
> people are put off by all the PITAs in keeping things clean--finding
> supplies, reading labels, figuring out what to do so it is done
> "properly" so as not to invite criticism, etc. Get rid of all the
> PITA prep and lay things out step-by-step and there will be an
> increase in buy-in.

There is absolutely no question of criticism of anyone doing anything to
help keep the place clean. If, however,anyone can do a better job than the
last person they are positively encouraged to do it. No-one is going to
say "Hey, that`s my job!"

> Maybe the difference is that you are familiar with the details of
> cleaning in your career, so you know what it entails and that it is
> not hard.
> Most of our membership has minimal experience with those
> details, so it doesn't look easy. This project is about making it
> look easy.

My reference to my workplace was meant to illustrate the fact that a
little equipment goes a long way, not that there is any special skill
involved that requires detailed instruction. Further, I rather made the
assumption that most of us clean our own homes and so would be familiar
with the basic skills so making the provision of textbooks on the subject
a bit redundant.


> Yes, the tasks are not that complicated, but the problem is that there
> is a -perception- that they are, will take too much time, be too
> draining to bother, etc.>
> Yes, basic maintenance is the easy part and doesn't require too many
> tools, you're right. But the steep climb has to come first, which is
> to get everything into a decent state before simple maintenance can
> begin.

Steep climb?

And if you honestly believe someone is going to clean the hot
> oven every time it is used, sorry, this is not accurate.

Perhaps I am a bit optimistic here :-)

>
> Yes, you're right that we do not need all kinds of supplies (see
> vinegar comments), so I think your expertise would be a great addition
> when we need to decide on what necessities we do need.

> Finally, let me point out that your cleaners who clean your premises
> well are professionals who are paid to do that on a daily basis,
> unlike our membership, who pay to be here. Additionally, you
> supervise them and do not do the cleaning yourself, so I have to
> question your apparent assertion that you are an expert in how to make
> the process of cleaning itself more manageable.

Refer to my comments above re. tasks being similar to those that one might
perform at home. I am (and was before my present employment) quite capable
of all the tasks that are required here regardless of my relationship with
my staff. My comments are based on my out of work experience. I make no
claim to be an "expert".

> Keeping things under
> the sink is a lousy idea because it's dark, it's jumbled, and it's
> disorganized, simply be virtue of the fact that things are not clearly
> visually compartmentalized and visually available. Out of sight,
> cleaning things will remain out of mind. There is an inescapable
> "yuck" factor, and jumbles of stuff in buckets will dissuade anyone
> moreso than aesthetically-pleasing, accessible solutions would do.

There is plenty of space in said cupboard to lay out the goods and keep
them tidy. It is only dark when the door is closed.


>
> Mops on the balcony may also be a tripping hazard in a fire.

Not if they are hung on a couple of hooks clear of the floor....

>
> The bottom line is that people are not going to perform cleaningtasks,
> regularly, for free, forever, if the process is additionally
> damned annoying. Right now, it certainly is.

I have outlined what, in my humble opinion is a way forward that involves
the least work for whoever decides to deal with the issue. My belief is
that the current cleaning of the space is done by individuals for various
reasons unconnected with the display or otherwise of materials and and
that the same individuals will continue for their own reasons to perform
these tasks. I further believe that simply making sure that there is a
supply of suitable materials however they are stored will make life easier
for them and others who might wish to join in.

Phil


--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "

SheraDreaming

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Sep 9, 2011, 9:46:42 AM9/9/11
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I did not intend to make this an adversarial thing, so I apologize if
it came across that way. I merely meant to say that it's those who do
the actual cleaning now who are the real experts in what supports we
should provide.

I broadly agree with most of your points, but I've spent too much time
on my hands and knees cleaning behind toilets and so on so that I have
no time for solutions that are in any way finicky or cause
subconscious avoidance of the process. But maybe I'm just projecting
what works for me. What do others think about these two proposals?
What would make you participate in cleaning regularly?

Perhaps we should start with your solution, and if it doesn't solve
things then we should progress to mine. I am worried though that the
vision you seem to have for the space involves the put-upon
individuals who clean now continuing to do more than their fair share
indefinitely, and maybe if we're lucky, a few others joining them.
This is the path to burnout for them, a feeling of powerlessness, and
maybe quitting the space--which is functional exploitation really, not
excellence. There is no question in this vision of everyone playing a
part beyond their own mess, but the problem is that communal areas get
dirty even if everyone started taking care of their own messes, which
not everyone will do.

I guess my vision just includes everyone, or 95% of people, taking on
microtasks that are made so easy that avoidance is no longer an
issue. Enough microtasks add up to a whole clean space. I know what
you are proposing would give me mental resistance to participating in
the cleaning, but again maybe others don't feel the same.

This paragraph:

> I have outlined what, in my humble opinion is a way forward that involves
> the least work for whoever decides to deal with the issue. My belief is
> that the current cleaning of the space is done by individuals for various
> reasons unconnected with the display or otherwise of materials and and
> that the same individuals will continue for their own reasons to perform
> these tasks. I further believe that simply making sure that there is a
> supply of suitable materials however they are stored will make life easier
> for them and others who might wish to join in.

"whoever decides to deal with the issue"...others, not ourselves?
"them and others who might wish to join in"....this worries me because
it seems to abdicate our individual responsibility in favour of
"someone" or some small subset of members doing the hard work. I
don't believe that individuals will continue to perform these tasks
indefinitely. We've had a few people express that they do the
cleaning now and are feeling close to burnout on the issue--the fact
is, anyone who has cleaned up after others with little thanks will
eventually give up without help.

Anyway, I am certainly no expert either and I'm tired of this debate.
Let's hear from those who do the cleaning now, or who would consider
it. What would make taking on the cleaning easy and efficient for
you? Do you like either of these proposals?



On Sep 9, 7:41 am, cepmen...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> I will try to address all your queries step by step. My comments are  
> largely confined to the issues regarding the "clean" areas of the space,  
> the tasks here are similar in size and scope to those one might encounter  
> at home.  The workshop has its own problems that are beyond the scope of  
> this dissertation. Those issues are, in the main, addressed by the users  
> of the processes that create them.
>
> On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 01:24:09 +0100, SheraDreaming <killashan...@gmail.com>  

spooq

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Sep 9, 2011, 10:14:22 AM9/9/11
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I thought we were getting a cleaner.

Luke

Robert Leverington

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Sep 9, 2011, 10:24:23 AM9/9/11
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On 2011-09-09, spooq wrote:
> I thought we were getting a cleaner.

We are, though it may be a few weeks before the cleaner I have
contacted is able to start.

Robert

spooq

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Sep 9, 2011, 10:25:52 AM9/9/11
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Great, thanks Robert.

Luke

Mike Harrison

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Sep 9, 2011, 10:56:41 AM9/9/11
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Thought this may be of interest for people looking to buy stuff locally :

Technology Will Save Us has just opened a kiosk in Rough Trade East, off Brick Lane :

http://technologywillsaveus.org/2011/09/technology-will-save-us-launches-a-haberdashery-for-technology-in-london/

Initial offerings include Arduino Uno, Sugru and a few kits.

Martin Dittus

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Sep 9, 2011, 11:26:12 AM9/9/11
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Let me first thank you profusely for kicking this off. As others have mentioned, you're being incredibly helpful with this and I admire your thoroughness.

As someone who has cleaned in the past, and who has motivated others to clean on more than one occasion, I definitely agree with your core observation: anything that removes obstacles to cleaning will be very helpful. And I do agree that this is as much about human psychology and laziness as it is about practicalities. Having cleaning supplies always be visible will make a big difference.

This discussion isn't as adversarial as you might think; Phil has been around for a while and put a lot of his time into Hackspace infrastructure work, I would expect him to have an opinion on how to make changes. But I also know him to be kind and supportive of other people's initiative.

m.

Sam Kelly

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Sep 9, 2011, 11:32:11 AM9/9/11
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Backing up Martin's observation - I've wanted to do some cleaning in the past, and have been stopped by not knowing what we had or being able to find anything, settling for a vacuum-lick-and-promise instead. Even something as simple as a drawer/cupboard prominently labelled "Cleaning Supplies", somewhere central and actually containing what it promised, would have helped.

I'm still keen on the idea of labelling particular objects with their procedures, when we have some codified procedures.

Sam

phil jones

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Sep 9, 2011, 1:18:15 PM9/9/11
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Nice.

[infernauta]

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Sep 9, 2011, 1:23:41 PM9/9/11
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thanks!
--
-- Sent from the casque of my homing cassowary.

[infernauta]

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Sep 9, 2011, 4:27:34 PM9/9/11
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This might interest you too, at least for the holy goop!

SheraDreaming

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Sep 10, 2011, 6:36:20 PM9/10/11
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Robert, Mark, Martin and Sam, thanks very much for your input. It's
so good to hear your views on this.

Martin I may have to study you for your diplomacy skills. ;)

So I've now laid out a bit of a vision, Phil has laid out a bit of his
vision, and from the input it sounds like there is some support for:

1) more visibility/accessibility of tools
2) greater formal codification of cleaning processes

We agree that cleanliness is an issue and that making would be more
efficient and enjoyable if things were organized, available and clean.

So where do we go from here, what is the next step? We need a
consensus on what precisely we're going to do, and then some
volunteers so we can achieve our goal.

In the interests of consensus, I'll tease out a question: should tool
storage stay under the sink, or should we establish a cleaning station?

amx109

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Sep 10, 2011, 6:42:05 PM9/10/11
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So I've now laid out a bit of a vision, Phil has laid out a bit of his
vision, and from the input it sounds like there is some support for:

1) more visibility/accessibility of tools
2) greater formal codification of cleaning processes

We agree that cleanliness is an issue and that making would be more
efficient and enjoyable if things were organized, available and clean.

So where do we go from here, what is the next step? 


to me this is a perfect case for rule 4 to be enacted [1]

Amran

[1] http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Rules

SheraDreaming

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Sep 10, 2011, 8:25:06 PM9/10/11
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Maybe I misunderstand you Amran, but that's exactly what I'm trying to
do. If you're telling me I'm complaining by trying to do this fairly,
I'm kind of offended by that.

Are you saying I should pretend Phil didn't speak up and just enact
what I proposed?

Please clarify.

George Buckenham

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Sep 11, 2011, 5:44:08 AM9/11/11
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I don't think anyone is complaining that you've come up with an awesome plan to help keep the place cleaner and are going to enact it. But I think the most important thing is for this to happen, in some form, rather than the plan being perfected. If I were you, I would take Phils suggestions and modify your plan as you see fit, and then enact it.

Personally, I think that dead-stupid instructions for how to use the cleaning products and what needs cleaned is excellent. I think putting the cleaning products in plain sight will also help encourage their use. I'm not sure that the military degree of organization that you proposed is necessary, but nothing succeeds like excess. And actually, I don't get to criticize, because you're the one making and enacting awesome plans, but I am merely writing on the mailing list. Phil's suggestions are sensible and well meaning, but I don't think he'd mind at all if you original proposals were enacted - because your suggestions are clearly an improvement to the status quo, and you're making them happen. Take his advice, but ultimately it's your call.

You have the authority to make these changes to the way cleaning works at the space by the dint of the effort you're making to change it. This is the nicer, grateful version of "well volunteered", I guess - if you have a cool idea for the space, please make it happen! Rule 4 is just saying this same thing, but in slightly less friendly terms.

tl;dr : make it happen, you don't need anyone's permission.

--G

Martin Dittus

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Sep 11, 2011, 6:39:19 AM9/11/11
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I would agree with this.

m.

amx109

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Sep 11, 2011, 7:04:57 AM9/11/11
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George has said it better than i could.

apologies to you SheraDreaming. I can now see how my reply could have been misunderstood. i dont see you as complaining at all. infact i, and no doubt many others, applaud your approach to this. my point was not every minute detail needs to have a consensus. personally, i love the cleaning station idea.

and remember, if someone else thinks what you've done isnt working, and they care enough, they too will enact rule 4. and through trial and error we will get our optimal cleaning sorted

Amran

p.s thank you george.

SheraDreaming

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Sep 12, 2011, 2:14:19 PM9/12/11
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Thanks George, Martin, and Amran for your clarifications.

Just do it eh. Ok can do.

Things that are going to happen now:

1--Identify zones & visually delineate them (use coloured signage,
tape on floor etc.)
2--Get or make that number of caddies, paint them zone colours
3--Write up cleaning processes & laminate using zone colours
4--Identify and source cleaner raw materials (vinegar etc.)
5--Identify and source tools and bottles (Muji?)
6--Populate caddies
7--Under sink to be emptied, scrubbed & labelled, caddies stored there
for now
.
.
.
7--Finally, a physical cleaning station to be tackled if people are
still interested. Maybe simpler, like Expedit style [1] plus a flat
surface, or if people like, the original proposal.


A question: are there space funds that can be used to keep us stocked
with cleaner and/or basic sponges etc.? Obviously we reuse what we
have already and what I've donated in the past.

A request:
I live two hours outside of London and have trouble being in to the
space very often, and every time I'm there things have moved around a
fair amount. I am going to need volunteers to take ownership of some
of these steps, or to help line things up such that when I do come in,
I can hit as many things on this list as possible. Even if you can
contribute only information--where things are, what needs doing--that
will be a help. Similarly, if you are a graphic designer and can help
make this pretty, great! Please let me know guys and gals!


Shera

PS. Thank you Robert for your building enthusiasm!


[1] Ikea Expedit: http://bit.ly/o0a32R


Martin Dittus

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Sep 12, 2011, 4:34:34 PM9/12/11
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I would suggest you simply let everyone know when you plan to come, that's a start. You won't need many people to help so there's probably no need to turn it into an event.

You can talk to Robert about how to get reimbursed for cleaning supplies.

Larger material costs (let's say > £30) are best addressed with a pledge drive.

m.

Adrian Godwin

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Sep 12, 2011, 4:53:58 PM9/12/11
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Brighton's former hackspace had a stack of bins somewhat like these

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/90076364#/90076364/

for sorting rubbish. They stack, but you can still open them when stacked.

They probably weren't optimum for rubbish (didn't hold many cans,
presumably had to be unstacked to be emptied) but would be pretty good
for organising cleaning materials in a visible, accessible and tidy
way.

-adrian

SheraDreaming

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Sep 13, 2011, 11:18:33 AM9/13/11
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Thanks all.

There will be a pledge for materials when I've worked out precisely
what needs doing in each area and identified suppliers.

I'll post again when I have more.


S.
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