New Rule: Borrowing Items

[Russ Garrett]

As you all know, I really really hate adding rules. But there's been a
de facto rule about borrowing things from the space for ages, and it's
clear that some members don't know it.

So, I propose inserting a new rule after 11 in our list:

"Do not remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first."

Comments?

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Alex Pounds]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 01:19:25PM +0000, Russ Garrett wrote:
> So, I propose inserting a new rule after 11 in our list:
> "Do not remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first."

This rule is both sensible & practical, and I encourage its prompt addition.

--
Alex Pounds .~. http://www.alexpounds.com/
/V\ http://www.ethicsgirls.com/
// \\
"Variables won't; Constants aren't" /( )\
^`~'^

[Dave Ingram]

On 22/11/11 13:26, Alex Pounds wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 01:19:25PM +0000, Russ Garrett wrote:
>> So, I propose inserting a new rule after 11 in our list:
>> "Do not remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first."
> This rule is both sensible & practical, and I encourage its prompt addition.

+1

Though it seems like common sense, it apparently isn't.

[Sam Cook]

On 22 November 2011 13:26, Alex Pounds <al...@alexpounds.com> wrote:

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 01:19:25PM +0000, Russ Garrett wrote:
> "Do not remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first."

This rule is both sensible & practical, and I encourage its prompt addition.

I would add that borrowing tools is a privilege for members only and that they should not be borrowed for more than 24 hours

[Russ Garrett]

On 22 November 2011 13:35, Sam Cook <sam.lind...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would add that borrowing tools is a privilege for members only and that
> they should not be borrowed for more than 24 hours

I don't want to make the rules overly detailed. Once someone asks the
mailing list, we can make these things clear.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Elliot West]

On 22 November 2011 13:19, Russ Garrett <ru...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:

So, I propose inserting a new rule after 11 in our list:

"Do not remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first."

Perhaps we shouldn't limit it to tools - "items" maybe? 

[Sam Cook]

Fair enough, I was aiming more for making it clear that things should be borrowed to do a job and then returned ASAP rather than borrowed and added to a tool bag, too much stuff gets lost because people forget to return it. 

[Charles Yarnold]

I think that would be a better wording.

[Russ Garrett]

The reason why I didn't want to make it that vague is that I didn't
want it misinterpreted as requiring you to have permission to take
your own stuff out of the space.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Darren McDonald]

+1 for sames additional restrictions

[Monty]

Would it be over complicating things if we were to tape/paint the
hackspace logo onto tools to act as a reminder of where something came
from?

[Dave Ingram]

On 22/11/11 14:03, Monty wrote:
> Would it be over complicating things if we were to tape/paint the
> hackspace logo onto tools to act as a reminder of where something came
> from?

I don't think all of them actually belong to the Hackspace; some tools
(not necessarily the ones that are currently AWOL) may be on long-term
loan from members.

D

[Monty]

Possibly all the more reason to mark Hackspace stuff since things
being loaned to the space shouldn't really be taken off the premise
without asking the owner?

[Sam Cook]

It might be easier to brand, anything with a wooden/plastic handle could be branded with the 'H', this means it's not going to get removed and wont need replacing etc. 

I'm not sure how hard it would be to make one of these?

but either a brand or a sticker is probably a good idea, especially for more expensive items. 

[Katie Sutton]

On 22 November 2011 13:26, Alex Pounds <al...@alexpounds.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 01:19:25PM +0000, Russ Garrett wrote:
>> So, I propose inserting a new rule after 11 in our list:
>> "Do not remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first."
>
> This rule is both sensible & practical, and I encourage its prompt addition.

+1

--
Katie Sutton
http://tajasel.org

"The ‘Net is a waste of time, and that’s exactly what’s right about
it." ~ William Gibson

[Katie Sutton]

"...not remove items belonging to the Hackspace without first
consulting the mailing list."

[Philip Clevberger]

I like Russ idea, its a simple first step and hopefully that will be enough.

There are many good ideas here but we mustn't forget that all this needs to be done and I in my mind its not going to be quick and easy. Everything currently there needs to be branded/marked avoiding marking things not belonging to individuals. Every time we get any new equipment it needs to be done. I don't see it happening unless someone takes charge and organises it.

In other words +1 for Russ idea, its a very good first step. Plain and simple.

/Phil

[Katie Sutton]

On 22 November 2011 14:41, Katie Sutton <ka...@tajasel.org> wrote:
> On 22 November 2011 14:00, Russ Garrett <ru...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 22 November 2011 13:52, Charles Yarnold <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 22 November 2011 13:45, Elliot West <tea...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Perhaps we shouldn't limit it to tools - "items" maybe?
>>>
>>> I think that would be a better wording.
>>
>> The reason why I didn't want to make it that vague is that I didn't
>> want it misinterpreted as requiring you to have permission to take
>> your own stuff out of the space.
>
> "...not remove items belonging to the Hackspace without first
> consulting the mailing list."

Or, in keeping with the idea that some things are on loan to the
space, "items belonging to or on loan to the Hackspace"

Although that might be getting too complicated now!

[Sam Kelly]

It's pretty easy to make a branding iron, but it's even easier to paint or engrave things, and paint is removable in case we get overenthusiastic and mark loaners/walls/sleeping hackers too. Also, stickers.

Marking things with the/an "H" sounds like a good idea - it's simple, distinctive, and easy to do.

Should we start marking anything we definitely know to be hackspace property? IIRC there's blue paint in the space, and sharp points for engraving.

Sam

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 2:34 PM, Sam Cook <sam.lind...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
Sam Kelly, http://www.eithin.co.uk/

That's it.  We're not messing around anymore, we're buying a bigger dictionary.  -  Tibor Fischer, The Thought Gang.

[Jonty Wareing]

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 01:45:27PM +0000, Elliot West wrote:
> Perhaps we shouldn't limit it to tools - "items" maybe?

I would rather we didn't, as that would include books. They're borrowed
on a regular basis and the requests would become irritating.

Alternatively, we could have an exception for them.

I'll be introducing a paper logbook for borrowing from the library
tonight, I've been meaning to do it for months.

--jonty

[Billy]

We've got Dremel's.

Engrave stuff with an H logo.

[ei8...@ei8fdb.org]

I definately agree with the sentiment.

Are all people who come to the space on the mailing list? If not, main downfall would be people not bothering to register for the list, *just* to borrow a tool. "I mean I'll bring it straight back..."

But yes, definately a register of who borrowed what, when. And a paper sheet by the tools won't work..

This in fact would be a good use of a tikitag/technology approach...barcode the tools and then use your swipe card to take it out? Or similiar.....

----- Reply message -----
From: "Russ Garrett" <ru...@garrett.co.uk>
To: "London Hack Space" <london-h...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [london-hack-space] New Rule: Borrowing Items
Date: Tue, Nov 22, 2011 13:19


As you all know, I really really hate adding rules. But there's been a
de facto rule about borrowing things from the space for ages, and it's
clear that some members don't know it.

So, I propose inserting a new rule after 11 in our list:

"Do not remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first."

[Russ Garrett]

I have made this change, as I originally proposed. It is the new rule 12:

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Rules

If there are any further problems with people removing non-tools then
we can change it, but I think it embodies the spirit.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Sam Cook]

Fair enough, at least some sort of progress has been made ;)

S