Robot Arm

[deanforbes]

There has been for some time a project going on using the staubli to do some pottery, a number of people have been involved Matt Charlotte and I to a small extent 

Due to the pressure and time scaled involved this is a retrospective post/ask but the staubli is at the show and will be back next week 

Matt is the guy who got it running in a usable manner and I contributed to the building of the frame 

Apologies from all of us for this retrospective post 

[tgreer]

I don't remember Matt getting the robot arm working at all. I remember collecting it. Paddy and I wiring it. Jon, Eugene, paddy and I building the pillar. I remember Salman writing the gcode decoder.

Matt had nothing to do with getting it running in a usable manner. What you've done is stolen hackspace property.

[Tim Reynolds]

The entire robot arm has been removed without prior permission because
people wanted to demonstrate some work they've done on it?

Nothing will be done about this.

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[Henry Sands]

Surely the shows dates and time scales where known beforehand?

On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 15:58:27 UTC+1, deanforbes wrote:

[Giacomo Giacomo]

Which show?

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[Bob Clough]

*the* show

[deanforbes]

Greer last I heard you weren't a member, so such a strong view from a bystander is interesting # Yes most of what you say is correct  and does not contradict what I said the only difference is what you call usable do you read your newspaper in English or  binary code ? :-) I suggest that for most of us English is more common 

Stolen is strong language and incorrect  I suppose you would say it's the Scottish in you..

#

To the other comments 

yes the time frames were known but there have been a number of work demands and kit failures - the yellow robot are was never considered an option untill the last few day when issues that could not be addressed in time were encountered in that the controller would not be complete and it became a fall back position, that there was the oversight of not posting to the list I know is not others problem but the key people in this have in the few days  had very little sleep and at time working straight streches for over 24 hours so it is hardly surprising , Its a Uni show near KX

On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 15:58:27 UTC+1, deanforbes wrote:

[tgreer]

Regardless of me being a member now or not, I didn't go to all that bother of helping fix it up for you to take it away when it suits you.

It's hackspace property. Not yours. Removal of hackspace property without express permission is theft. in binary or English.

[tom]

You could have emailed ahead of time with something like "hey we know the dates, we may not need to borrow it but if we do can we?"

Or just nick it and steamroller over people (rightly) being pissed off with what you did. Whatever's good for you I suppose

[Matt Taylor]

“Rule 10: Don't remove tools from the space without asking the mailing list first.”

It doesn’t matter what the equipment is, who built it, who worked on it – it doesn’t belong to you, and removing it from the building without permission is theft.

If it turns out that it isn’t considered to be theft, then I look forward to removing the laser cutter next week for a personal project. I’ll bring it back, I promise…

--

[deanforbes]

Mr Taylor ... your line of enquiry is a bit of a red herring, by the way = when did you sit the bar - I suggest you have a word with Greer about his use of Hackspace Kit, there are also other more recent examples by other well-known people 

Viva the "Second Life Council"

On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 15:58:27 UTC+1, deanforbes wrote:

[Lex Robinson]

What?

[Bob Clough]

>
> Stolen is strong language and incorrect I suppose you would say it's the Scottish in you..

> Steal
> verb (used with object), stole, stolen, stealing.
> 1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force:

Seems pretty plain English to me?

[Mat Stace]

I have to agree. 

What?

Dean - Please explain how the hackspace rule which states "don't remove tools from the space without asking the  mailing list first" is a red herring? You would flip your shit if someone took one of the big tools from the workshop without so much as a by-your-leave to the mailing list.

[Mark Steward]

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:15 PM, deanforbes <m...@deanforbes.com> wrote:

I know is not others problem but the key people in this have in the few days  had very little sleep and at time working straight streches for over 24 hours so it is hardly surprising , Its a Uni show near KX

Well this is a problem. You shouldn't be working in the space if you're at the point where your decision-making ability is impaired by lack of sleep.

Mark

[Nigel Worsley]

>> Steal
>> verb (used with object), stole, stolen, stealing.
>> 1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force:
>
> Seems pretty plain English to me?

It is, but the legal definition of theft is a little more specific and
generally requires intent to permanently deprive the owner.. In his
usual arrogant style Dean is choosing to argue that his actions aren't
quite theft (but they do come very close) and totally ignore the fact
that his actions are a clear contravention of Hackspace rules which is
the real issue.

Nigle

[Lex Robinson]

The thing that really gets my goat about this is the joviality.

These responses (and many previous) come across as you sitting there going "ho ho ho, these pesky scamps have accused me of stealing just because I took an expensive piece of equipment away without asking permission, telling the greater community or even leaving a note! I'd better put them in their place with some banter!"

I'm genuinely not understanding. Have you just decided that rules don't matter? Did the fact that people attempted to eject you from the community and failed to do so convince you that you're untouchable?

And yes, I did check for a note.

[Tim Reynolds]

This is exactly it. Nothing will happen.

Dean is completely immune to the grievance procedure.

On 21/06/2016 18:08, Lex Robinson wrote:
> The thing that really gets my goat about this is the joviality.
> These responses (and many previous) come across as you sitting there

> going "/ho ho ho, these pesky scamps have accused me of stealing just

> because I took an expensive piece of equipment away without asking
> permission, telling the greater community or even leaving a note! I'd

> better put them in their place with some banter!/"

> I'm genuinely not understanding. Have you just decided that rules don't
> matter? Did the fact that people attempted to eject you from the
> community and failed to do so convince you that you're untouchable?
> And yes, I did check for a note.
>
> On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 17:36:17 UTC+1, deanforbes wrote:
>
> Mr Taylor ... your line of enquiry is a bit of a red herring, by the
> way = when did you sit the bar - I suggest you have a word with
> Greer about his use of Hackspace Kit, there are also other more
> recent examples by other well-known people
>
> Viva the "Second Life Council"
>
>
> On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 15:58:27 UTC+1, deanforbes wrote:
>
> There has been for some time a project going on using the
> staubli to do some pottery, a number of people have been
> involved Matt Charlotte and I to a small extent
>
> Due to the pressure and time scaled involved this is a
> retrospective post/ask but the staubli is at the show and will
> be back next week
>
> Matt is the guy who got it running in a usable manner and I
> contributed to the building of the frame
>
> Apologies from all of us for this retrospective post
>
>

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[tgreer]

About my use of hackspace kit? Are you making accusations or just generally talking tripe as per usual.

On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 17:36:17 UTC+1, deanforbes wrote:

[Stephen Casey]

I'm stunned by this. I was involved with the setup of the Staubli, and it was a non-trivial undertaking by a great group of people, over an extended period. It's a precision piece of kit, a major part of the Hackspace infrastructure, very costly to repair (in fact, so costly that if it's damaged then it would likely be a 'game over for the Staubli' situation), and is also a bit of an attraction.

How can it be that you just decided to take it? It's pretty clear that you did this because, had you asked, it would have been a resounding NO F****** WAY.

Surely there needs to be a consequence for this behaviour? It's blatant contempt.

Or, maybe it's ok. I'm soon to need a compressor, pillar drill, circular saw, lathe, vertical milling machine and some other bits and pieces. I'll just rock up and 'borrow' the Hackspace ones. I'll probably be a bit knackered, so don't expect me to, like, ask, or anything I mean, it's fine, isn't it?

Stephen.

[Liam Lynch]

Excuse me.

But I have just spent 30min reading a whole load of back biting regarding Dean making a post for the purpose of transparency regarding the Staubli robot.

He didn’t in the message say HE removed it, that HE was responsible for it being removed without following due procedure. It implied he has some knowledge of it and it can be assumed he may have assisted. Assumed

 

But that has done nothing to stop a load jumping up and down about how untouchable he is, and how he breaks the rules and that he is never accountable. Basically the usual tirade of bull shit, when a mob sees its quarry in its sights

Matt makes one message and its all OK, fine and dandy. Not to worry guv.

Why are you not calling for Matt to be subject to the grievance procedure? Why are you not shouting from the rafters about how mean and horrible he is?

The great thing about having standards is that:-

They are free and disposable.

There are so many to choose from.

Half a dozen nerds in and dark room can re-write them at the drop of a hat.

 

Some people should be ashamed of themselves.

Liam

On Tuesday, 21 June 2016 15:58:27 UTC+1, deanforbes wrote:

[Stephen Casey]

Because Matt clarified that the current group of people who maintain the Staubli were consulted, and gave approval. Dean's post did not.

When Dean was called out on what appeared to be an unacceptable situation, he didn't add any information at all to allay any concerns that any process at all had been followed.

Stephen.

[tgreer]

Well, he did remove it. I watched him.

[Jon Russell]

I'm pretty pissed off about this too. I spent a considerable amount of time planning, preparing, and installing the Staubli with the rest of the Robotics group. I use it often, when I get time to come to the space.

I think its completely unacceptable for Matt to have removed the Staubli without permission. I cannot think of any reason why he, or someone else involved in the project could not have emailed the list before they picked up a spanner. It would have taken a considerable amount of time to disassemble the Staubli. There is no excuse for not emailing the list before starting work.

This really is bad form. Especially as Matt has contributed so much to the space. This is a serious abuse of the process.

Jon.

[Lex Robinson]

Clearly not reading it particularly well?

Deans posts on the matter have been anything but transparent.

He stated that a group of people including him had taken the robot arm. No assumptions are necessary at this point since he just said that he took it.

When asked why he said that they didn't want to but people were sleep deprived so they had to.

When pushed further he posted a bunch of garbage and then apparently decided that the matter was closed.

This is not OK.

Matt's post has not made it OK. He's doing better at this since he's not accused anyone else of stealing or made bizzare references to decade old VR games, but it's still a problem.

One person saying "oh well that's ok then" on a late night post is not community consent.

Though on the bright side you are right: some people definitely should be ashamed of themselves regarding the handling of this.

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[Stephen Casey]

For the record - I didn't say it's 'ok'. Just that Matt's email, had it been sent in advance, would have made a big difference to the handling of the situation. Not necessarily the outcome.

Stephen.

[Tim Reynolds]

Cool story.

He did remove it.

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[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

I have since been informed that Deans use of "second life" translates to
"people who use the hackspace IRC channel", aka "not real members".

[tgreer]

Can we get an answer on when the stolen item will be returned to hackspace premises?