Expanding

[Russ Garrett]

I recently received an email from our landlords telling us that they
are not willing to let us any more units in our building. Interpret
the subtext of that as you will. I think they just told me to go fuck
myself.

The upshot of this is that we can't take the easy option and expand
into the newly-vacated unit 22. I think this may be a good thing,
because we can take the initiative and find a location which is better
for us in the long term.

So let's do it. It's going to be a massive pain, but we can turn the
space into something much better. Let's find somewhere bigger, but
more rough, where we can make our mark and properly expand.

The wiki page is here; please help us out by scouring London for a new space:

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search_2012

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Mike]

On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 10:37:55PM +0100, Russ Garrett wrote:
> I recently received an email from our landlords telling us that they
> are not willing to let us any more units in our building. Interpret
> the subtext of that as you will. I think they just told me to go fuck
> myself.
>
> The upshot of this is that we can't take the easy option and expand
> into the newly-vacated unit 22. I think this may be a good thing,
> because we can take the initiative and find a location which is better
> for us in the long term.
>

Do you have any expection of the existing leases being terminated or
renewal being declined? That is, is there an expected time frame in
which we should aim to find a new home?

Mike.

[Russ Garrett]

On 22 September 2012 23:14, Mike <hack...@norgie.net> wrote:
> Do you have any expection of the existing leases being terminated or
> renewal being declined? That is, is there an expected time frame in
> which we should aim to find a new home?

Our current lease ends on the 31st of December 2013. Personally I
think it would be a bit rash of them to kick us out, having always
paid our £4k monthly lease on time for the previous three years, but
that is ultimately their decision. (And it will presumably depend on
the condition on the letting market in a year's time.)

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

would there not be a problem, breaking the lease?

or

is there a break clause meaning one is not obliged?

--

Paul Randle-Jolliffe Esq
Practicing Principal (Lay Advocate & Public Interest Intervener)

Patrocinium Interventus
Isle of Wight, England.

www.patrocinium.eu

Land Line: +44 (0) 207-193-9991
Mbl: +44 (0) 7 411 99 6893

"Justice is itself the great standing policy of civil society; and any eminent departure from it, under any circumstances, lies under the suspicion of being no policy at all."     Edmund Burke

 

Warning: This message is for the named recipient only. Dissemination prohibited without prior written authorisation. If you are not the named recipient, please disregard this entire message, inform the sender then destroy.

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[Russ Garrett]

On 22 September 2012 23:43, Paul Randle-Jolliffe <pa...@patrocinium.eu> wrote:
> would there not be a problem, breaking the lease?
>
> or
>
> is there a break clause meaning one is not obliged?

We have a 3 month break term on the lease, the landlord's break term
is 12 months. The end of the lease is when our rent will be up for
renegotiation.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

:)

[Ian Henderson]

I think it would be a mistake not to follow up with workspace on this and find out what the issue is

I was a workspace tenant on another site for 8 years and got to know senior management quite well as they ended up redeveloping the site. if you look at all the CSR stuff they publish they should be 100% behind a group such as hackspace

Ian

[Russ Garrett]

On 23 September 2012 07:38, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
> I think it would be a mistake not to follow up with workspace on this and find out what the issue is

We know what the issue is. The landlord does not like the fact that we
have 500+ people with access to the premises. They have complained to
us several times about the stuff we leave on the balcony, as well as
several other issues. It appears that the area manager has the final
say on whether we can get more space, and he doesn't like us.

I make no secret of my belief that remaining in Cremer Street is not
the best course of action for us anyway. We have the potential to find
a better space, lets do it.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Akbal Randhawa]

How much space is there currently at the space in Sq m.

[Russ Garrett]

On 24 September 2012 09:44, Akbal Randhawa <akbalr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How much space is there currently at the space in Sq m.

2600 sq ft, 242 sq m.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Eugene Nadyrshin]

Just a note that this info is ON THE WIKIPAGE: http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search_2012

Also I've added the natural light requirement to the page which Russ mentioned verbally as a requirement ...If it was up to me I'd go for a dark cellar (yes I am photo-phobic)

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Mind if I add "vehicle access" to the wishlist? As in being able to
drive a vehicle into and out of the venue? Either for loading/unloading
or larger projects like Hipsters tank or the golf buggy?

On 24/09/2012 17:21, Eugene Nadyrshin wrote:
> Just a note that this info is ON THE WIKIPAGE:
> http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search_2012
>
> Also I've added the natural light requirement to the page which Russ
> mentioned verbally as a requirement ...If it was up to me I'd go for a
> dark cellar (yes I am photo-phobic)
>
> On 24/09/12 09:44, Akbal Randhawa wrote:
>> How much space is there currently at the space in Sq m.
>>
>> On Monday, September 24, 2012 9:31:53 AM UTC+1, Russ Garrett wrote:
>>
>> On 23 September 2012 07:38, Ian Henderson

>> <i...@advancedforensics.com <javascript:>> wrote:
>> > I think it would be a mistake not to follow up with workspace on
>> this and find out what the issue is
>>
>> We know what the issue is. The landlord does not like the fact
>> that we
>> have 500+ people with access to the premises. They have complained to
>> us several times about the stuff we leave on the balcony, as well as
>> several other issues. It appears that the area manager has the final
>> say on whether we can get more space, and he doesn't like us.
>>
>> I make no secret of my belief that remaining in Cremer Street is not
>> the best course of action for us anyway. We have the potential to
>> find
>> a better space, lets do it.
>>
>> --
>> Russ Garrett

>> ru...@garrett.co.uk <javascript:>
>>
>

[Billy]

We had an interesting discussion about the building.

One of the problems, that was mentioned, was the reactions of the
security guards, where they don't know who are the people that
actually are members and are allowed in the building.

What about an RFID reader next to the security hut, with a scrolling
LED display, with a link to the membership database?

It would solve the complaints as far as the building security is
concerned...




On Sep 24, 6:59 pm, "Peter \"Sci\" Turpin" <s...@sci-fi-fox.com>
wrote:

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

and an announcer, this visitor is/isnot a hackspace member!!

in a nice sexy voice to add the right impact

that would deal with the security guard's lack of willingness to open the hell up, and or just being asleep

[tom]

or you know, we could just talk to the guards and explain what were doing...

[M]

I think if the guards are the actual issue, then it's definitely
because they get woken up at all hours needing to open the gates.

--
>
++++++++++[>+>+++>++
+++++>++++++++++<<<<
-]>>>+++++++.>++++++
+++++.+++..---------
.++++++++++.<<+++.<.

[Jon Fautley]

On 25 September 2012 12:33, M <a.turn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think if the guards are the actual issue, then it's definitely
> because they get woken up at all hours needing to open the gates.

Erm, they're there to guard, not sleep.

[Russ Garrett]

Us annoying the guards is clearly not the issue here, so I don't see
why it's productive discussing it.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Aden]

Will the new space have a bikeshed, and if so what colour should it be?

[Bacon Zombie]

The bikeshed should be #272D70 that will solve all the space issues.....

[Russ Garrett]

Guys,

As much as I really enjoy spending my day reading page after page of
ridiculous, overcomplicated technological solutions to problems we
don't have, interspersed with inane trolling and oh-so-witty jokes
about bikesheds, can we perhaps try and keep this thread on topic?

Cheers,

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Big Will]

Russ,

So to give us an example starting point - What would be good/bad about this alternative?

http://www.thompsonyates.co.uk/property/42-north-road 

[Russ Garrett]

I have a feeling I've seen this property before and discounted it for
some reason.

The price is likely to be prohibitive, based on the price of similar
properties I would be surprised if it was less than £100k/year.

Location's not bad though. I'll drop them an email and see if I can get a price.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Nigel Worsley]

Big Will wrote:
> So to give us an example starting point - What would be good/bad about this alternative?
> http://www.thompsonyates.co.uk/property/42-north-road

There isn't a lot of info to go on, no pictures at all of the inside (maybe because it is
not very good? ).

It could be really good, but there are a few problems:

It is much larger than we are looking for, the rent would have to be no more than
£4.12/sq ft to be within budget, which is very unlikely.

It is a bit too far from the existing space.

Parking will be a complete pain.

Nigel

[David Murphy]

downsides: highly visible. unlike a buisness it's better for us to be back a bit and only findable by people who know we're there.  combined with being on the path between a prison and the nearest tube. may have to worry more about security.

[Akbal Randhawa]

Here's a suggestion

http://property.networkrail.co.uk/findaproperty/details/5196/hkc00301.aspx 

twice the size of existing space and near tube

[Akbal Randhawa]

Another one but only a little bigger then current site.

http://property.networkrail.co.uk/findaproperty/details/6391/hac02609.aspx 

[Önder Vincent Koç]

The one on hackney overground is an amazing location and huge potential for space.... but had issues in the past with squatters to the bgest of my knowledge

[Dave Ingram]

On 25/09/12 14:37, Akbal Randhawa wrote:

Here's a suggestion

http://property.networkrail.co.uk/findaproperty/details/5196/hkc00301.aspx 

twice the size of existing space and near tube

Unfortunately not for B1/B2 use, which is what I believe we require (according to the wiki page).


D

[Russ Garrett]

On 25 September 2012 14:48, Dave Ingram <da...@dmi.me.uk> wrote:
> Unfortunately not for B1/B2 use, which is what I believe we require
> (according to the wiki page).

If we find somewhere great, we can apply to get the use class changed,
but it's a fair amount of hassle (and will require the letting agent
to be fairly cooperative).

That place next to Hackney overground would be quite ideal, but I
suspect it'll be out of our budget. I will follow it up though.

We're ideally aiming for something in the 5000 sq ft+ range.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Nigel Worsley]

> That place next to Hackney overground would be quite ideal, but I
> suspect it'll be out of our budget.

That was my first thought too.

And would they let us in there? I suspect the landlord is a little precious about the
interior and we certainly wouldn't get a good reference from our existing landlord
in that regard.

Nigle

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Is being near a prison actually a concern? Surely the point of a prison
is the criminals are inside it and not let out? Are there actual
statistics for this?

I do note being near Hackney Downs means proximity to the lovely Pembury
Tavern pub. ;)

Also the lack of visibility is not necessarily a good thing. As I learnt
during my association with the furry fandom, people behave a lot better
if they're meeting somewhere where people can see them.

[David Murphy]

visitors.

just a thought looking at the maps.

[Ian Henderson]

Re 42 North Road

I rent the adjacent property and have seen inside 42

It's completely derelict and missing part of the roof. Great space and location but it would cost too much to bring into use IMO

Let me know if you want any other info on it

Ian

[Russ Garrett]

On 25 September 2012 15:22, Ian Henderson <i...@advancedforensics.com> wrote:
> I rent the adjacent property and have seen inside 42
>
> It's completely derelict and missing part of the roof. Great space and location but it would cost too much to bring into use IMO

Aha, good knowledge! Depends on how much the rent is being offered, I
suppose. If they're willing to give us 50% rent for six months, then
that may be enough to get the roof fixed up.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Ian Henderson]

It's actually a great space and is next door to Caledonian Road tube station

It's about 15'000 sq ft with a solid concrete floor and a couple of vehicle inspection pits. It was last used as an HGV MOT test centre. I'm away for a couple of days but I'll send you a few photographs later in the week

Ian

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

In these austere times a rent free period in consideration of works would be quite normal or a very low long term rent 

paul

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Can we make it slide back like the roof on the Planet Express building?

[samthetechie]

In all seriousness.. have you not considered just throwing like £10 at the search and having mechanical turks massively speed this up by finding lots of candidate places to review... most efficient IMHO
https://www.mturk.com/mturk/

On Saturday, 22 September 2012 22:38:01 UTC+1, Russ Garrett wrote:

I recently received an email from our landlords telling us that they
are not willing to let us any more units in our building. Interpret
the subtext of that as you will. I think they just told me to go fuck
myself.

The upshot of this is that we can't take the easy option and expand
into the newly-vacated unit 22. I think this may be a good thing,
because we can take the initiative and find a location which is better
for us in the long term.

So let's do it. It's going to be a massive pain, but we can turn the
space into something much better. Let's find somewhere bigger, but
more rough, where we can make our mark and properly expand.

The wiki page is here; please help us out by scouring London for a new space:

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/New_Space_Search_2012

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Charles Yarnold]

https://requester.mturk.com/help/faq#do_support_outside_us

To save you clicking, only those in the US can use this.

[Mike]

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 02:15:42AM +0100, Charles Yarnold wrote:
> https://requester.mturk.com/help/faq#do_support_outside_us
>
> To save you clicking, only those in the US can use this.
>

Damn, there goes our plot for world domination. I bet between the
collective minds of our 500+ subscribers we'd be flogging a dead horse
trying to find a US bank account, US proxy or whatever else would be
needed to use this.

Mike.

[tom]

perhaps we could crowdsource a US bank account? I know a site..

*ahem*

http://www.estatesgazette.com/propertylink/advert/ground_1st_floor_2nd_floor_torren_street_london-london_-3346290.htm 

[Russ Garrett]

On 26 September 2012 14:45, tom <bollo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.estatesgazette.com/propertylink/advert/ground_1st_floor_2nd_floor_torren_street_london-london_-3346290.htm

YES.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[SamLR]

We could see who can make more noise: use or electrowerkz 

BUY IT NOW!

S

[Filthy hipster scum]

Been in there. ages ago, great space

 

[Daniel Hertz]

I have a US bank account, with the address based in Boston, MA, if you guys are serious.

-- 

Daniel Hertz

[Mike]

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 07:02:16AM -0700, Filthy hipster scum wrote:
>
> >
> > Been in there. ages ago, great space
> >
>

I'd like to propose 32 High Holborn. It's a Central location, approx
70,000 square feet, *right next to* Chancery Lane Tube station, very,
very cool building, has a private goods lift, kitchen facilites, I doubt
very much we could make enough noise to piss anyone off, we'd have to
try very hard to piss the neighbours off and it has very good Internet
connectivity.

Mike.

[Akbal Randhawa]

What is the budget?

[Russ Garrett]

On 26 September 2012 15:24, Mike <hack...@norgie.net> wrote:
> I'd like to propose 32 High Holborn. It's a Central location, approx
> 70,000 square feet, *right next to* Chancery Lane Tube station, very,
> very cool building, has a private goods lift, kitchen facilites, I doubt
> very much we could make enough noise to piss anyone off, we'd have to
> try very hard to piss the neighbours off and it has very good Internet
> connectivity.

Is it still on sale? I understand the last advertised price for it was
£5m, which is a shade above our price range.

(It would make a phenomenal hackerspace, I agree:
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/sites/k/kingsway/)

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Billy]

On Sep 26, 2:45 pm, tom <bollocks...@gmail.com> wrote:


> http://www.estatesgazette.com/propertylink/advert/ground_1st_floor_2n...


That's the Slimelight! Have they shut down?

[Billy]

Just checked and they haven't! Their 25th anniversary is on the 12th
of October... :D

It's a lovely venue, loud and chewy sound system! Lots of crunchy
techno and chewy textural industrial... :D

With them as neighbours, there would never be any complaints about the
noise... :))

[Mike]

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 03:37:35PM +0100, Russ Garrett wrote:
> On 26 September 2012 15:24, Mike <hack...@norgie.net> wrote:
> > I'd like to propose 32 High Holborn. It's a Central location, approx
> > 70,000 square feet, *right next to* Chancery Lane Tube station, very,
> > very cool building, has a private goods lift, kitchen facilites, I doubt
> > very much we could make enough noise to piss anyone off, we'd have to
> > try very hard to piss the neighbours off and it has very good Internet
> > connectivity.
>
> Is it still on sale? I understand the last advertised price for it was

> ??5m, which is a shade above our price range.

>
> (It would make a phenomenal hackerspace, I agree:
> http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/sites/k/kingsway/)
>
>

My understanding is that it went on the market in 2008. I haven't seen
anything published indicating that a sale closed, so to the best of my
knoweldge, it reamins on the market. Also a well-known online
encyclopedia gives no mention of the deeds changing hands.

If it's been on the market since 2008, I suggest maybe we consider an
offer around £4,000,000. You're right, it'll certainly be a challenage
to make the books balance. Not an insurmountable one, though you may
have to offer the bank manager a blowjob.

Mike.

[Nigel Worsley]

Mike wrote:
> If it's been on the market since 2008, I suggest maybe we consider an
> offer around �4,000,000. You're right, it'll certainly be a challenage
> to make the books balance.

Actually, with the ridiculously low interest rates at the moment we probably
could balance the books. We would be stuffed when the economy picks up
and rates return to normal though.

Nigle

[IrradiatedHaggis]

Should we start a pledge?

Sent from Samsung tablet

Mike <hack...@norgie.net> wrote:


On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 03:37:35PM +0100, Russ Garrett wrote:
> On 26 September 2012 15:24, Mike <hack...@norgie.net> wrote:
> > I'd like to propose 32 High Holborn.  It's a Central location, approx
> > 70,000 square feet, *right next to* Chancery Lane Tube station, very,
> > very cool building, has a private goods lift, kitchen facilites, I doubt
> > very much we could make enough noise to piss anyone off, we'd have to
> > try very hard to piss the neighbours off and it has very good Internet
> > connectivity.
>
> Is it still on sale? I understand the last advertised price for it was
> ??5m, which is a shade above our price range.
>
> (It would make a phenomenal hackerspace, I agree:
> http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/sites/k/kingsway/)
>
>

My understanding is that it went on the market in 2008.  I haven't seen
anything published indicating that a sale closed, so to the best of my
knoweldge, it reamins on the market.  Also a well-known online
encyclopedia gives no mention of the deeds changing hands.

If it's been on the market since 2008, I suggest maybe we consider an
offer around ��4,000,000.  You're right, it'll certainly be a challenage

to make the books balance.  Not an insurmountable one, though you may

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

I could make use of the deep shelter

I have need of an underground lair

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--

Paul Randle-Jolliffe Esq
Practicing Principal (Lay Advocate & Public Interest Intervener)

Patrocinium Interventus
Isle of Wight, England.

www.patrocinium.eu

Land Line: +44 (0) 207-193-9991
Mbl: +44 (0) 7 411 99 6893

"Justice is itself the great standing policy of civil society; and any eminent departure from it, under any circumstances, lies under the suspicion of being no policy at all."     Edmund Burke

 

Warning: This message is for the named recipient only. Dissemination prohibited without prior written authorisation. If you are not the named recipient, please disregard this entire message, inform the sender then destroy.

This message may contain material or opinion that does not necessarily reflect the policy or opinion of the parent organisation, Patrocinium Interventus . Copyright (C) 2010 Patrocinium Interventus.

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

what you do is setup a company and have that company buy it and then lease it to hackspace

[Charles Yarnold]

/me gets his mod stick out

Please keep replies on topic and useful, posting otherwise will see you put on moderation.

Lets keep this thread useful please.

[Tim Burrell-Saward]

I don't know if this would be of any help or interest at all, but the London Rockin' Rollers Roller Derby team is also currently looking for a new home, with some similar requirements to the Hackspace (big, reasonable rates, parking, no access issues). They're looking for approx. 10k to 14k sq ft of open space, with ideally a concrete floor, so in the unlikely event that you come across a mammoth space that would require you going in with another organisation, the LRR would be worth considering.

Tim