What is the problem with new premises!

[Andrew Thompson Thompson]

Why not register the HS as a charity (which is free and easy),  and then you can occupy empty premsises for free.

For instance the London Mac Shop at the end of leather-lane is vacant

The Goldman Sachs VAST building on "Fleet Street" is empty and there is literally acres of spacer to be had as well as some very smart parking.

I'm sure Goldmans would be only too happy to let out some of their empty space as they would be able to turn it into a tax-benefit for themselves!

If someone wants a "reality check" on what i am talking about, go to Fleet Street and find the "Suited and Booted" shop.  That's a charity who have just moved in to enormous premises free of charge.  All they have to pay for is electricty!

Let me know if you want more details...

Andrew 

[Andre Amorim]

I said that straight away 

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Subject: [london-hack-space] What is the problem with new premises!

 

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[Adrian Godwin]

It's often suggested.

There were good reasons why not to apply for charitable status at the time the hackspace was set up. Of course, things change and it should be reexamined from time to time, but it's by no means a no-brainer. I would encourage the trustees to lay out the reasons though (perhaps on the website as it's an FAQ).

Furthermore, I'm sure it's not the case that charitable status automatically gives access to free premises - there's a need for the premises owner to want to do that although tax status does help. As do political connections such as with the dodgy 'charities' at Tufton St.

 

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[Andre Amorim]

HSL BS rules .. but still rules ..

London Hackspace is not

• A pay-as-you-go workshop - Although we're very flexible on membership contributions and require no long-term commitments, we do expect that being an London Hackspace member is an ongoing process of contributing to the hackspace. Contributing only when you want to make use of the hackspace facilities is discouraged.
• A co-working space – whilst you may be able to sit down and do some work on a small scale you will very quickly find it is not suited to having meetings, conference calls etc the network may drop out, there will be noise and interruptions
• A laser cutting/CNC machining/etc service - We do not provide commercial services to the public, and we have a shared machine that many members will want to use
• A charity - Although we very much welcome donations and assistance, we are not a registered charity and are structured more like a social club.
• A storage area - We have a small amount of space to store ongoing member projects and we're happy to have tools that are being regularly used, however we are very space limited and do not provide long-term storage.
• A business incubator - We're happy to support local businesses where we can
• A tool hire centre - Our tools are kept at the hackspace and are not loaned out to members.
• The Repair Shop wanting to repair stuff are very welcome to become members and get full access to our facilities. If you join up, we may help you fix it, if someone is around and they have time but we won't fix it for you.
• A source of free materials – You should bring your own materials if people have useable materials left over they can leave them for other member and other members should make a donation to the space to the value of the materials – it is one of the ways we support our selves
• A waste disposal service – Because it does not fit in your bin at home does not mean the space will find it valuable or useful

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[Adrian Godwin]

They're not rules. Rules are itemised elsewhere. They're simply statements. And why do you call them BS ? They are either principles we consider important or lessons learnt through bitter experience.

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[Andre Amorim]

A statement can describe a rule by expressing what the rule is. For example, ‘You must submit your assignment by 5 PM’ is a statement that describes a rule. Although I might seem rude for using social network lingo, I apologize. My reason is that no one really follows the formal rules. From a pragmatic standpoint, turning it into a charitable financial venture would make more sense.

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Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] What is the problem with new premises!

 

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[Adrian Godwin]

The only one I can see as a rule is 

• A tool hire centre - Our tools are kept at the hackspace and are not loaned out to members.

The intention of this is to ensure that all tools are available for use by members when they come to the space.

All the others are not this prescriptive. For example, 

• A co-working space – whilst you may be able to sit down and do some work on a small scale you will very quickly find it is not suited to having meetings, conference calls etc the network may drop out, there will be noise and interruptions

It doesn't say you can't use it as a workspace. But it doesn't offer the facilities a space like that offers, and you can't reserve space for yourself without taking it from someone else. Thus, it isn't practical. Perhaps there's an implied rule that you can't make a private workspace for yourself there but that's obvious : there is no such space.

The statement about a charity doesn't say that it can't ever be one or explain the reason why that decision was made (though that has happened more than once in the past). It simply states that it isn't a charity, which is factually correct.

And so it goes on. These are not rules : they're merely information about how the space operates. There ARE rules, and perhaps you don't agree with them. But these are not them.

Can you point to one of these that you think is a rule, and explain why that's a problem ?  They're generally to protect members from being interrupted by non-members who think we offer commercial services. The hackspace itself doesn't, though it may be possible for individual members to offer one as long as it doesn't hurt other members (eg by hogging the laser cutter).

 

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[Adrian Godwin]

As for 'no-one really follows the formal rules'  .. in general. I believe they do. Perhaps sometimes someone ignores one. If nobody notices nothing will happen. If they make a nuisance of themselves, they will be asked to stop, or banned form attending. This has happened.  If you know of someone consistently  breaking rules (and especially if that causes a problem) please let the trustees know. Or, indeed, if you think a rule is unnecessary, say so. Perhaps the need for it has gone. Open discussion is good.

[henry...@ntlworld.com]

I've been a member since the Hackney Road days and I've yet to see or hear of a member breaking rule zero :-)

[Dax Liniere]

Thank you Adrian for your sensible and grounded responses.