parking

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Aidas Baltušis

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Jun 23, 2021, 6:51:36 AMJun 23
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Some amazing parking yesterday, managing to take up 3 of our parking spaces with 1 car. PXL_20210622_203921363.jpg

As it happens, the driver came out soon after I took the picture. The conversation I had with the guy: 

Me: Do you know these are hackspaces parking spots? 
Driver: Hackspace? Yeah I just came from the hackspace (He definitely did not) 
Me: Hackspace or boxing? 
Driver: Yeah bit of both. Do you think people care about parking? 
Me: Yeah, we got 6 spots and the boxers take all of them and we can't park.
Driver: I was speaking to an old man from the hackspace the other day and he told me I can park here 
Me: whatever... (I walked back in as I said this) 

Because of all the boxers I've known back from school, I got a fear of them so didn't continue the conversation after this and just walked back in.. 

Paddy Duncan

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Jun 23, 2021, 7:04:45 AMJun 23
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What time was this?

Cheers

Paddy

 

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com <london-h...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Aidas Baltušis
Sent: 23 June 2021 11:51
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [london-hack-space] parking

 

Some amazing parking yesterday, managing to take up 3 of our parking spaces with 1 car. 

 

As it happens, the driver came out soon after I took the picture. The conversation I had with the guy: 

 

Me: Do you know these are hackspaces parking spots? 

Driver: Hackspace? Yeah I just came from the hackspace (He definitely did not) 

Me: Hackspace or boxing? 

Driver: Yeah bit of both. Do you think people care about parking? 

Me: Yeah, we got 6 spots and the boxers take all of them and we can't park.

Driver: I was speaking to an old man from the hackspace the other day and he told me I can park here 

Me: whatever... (I walked back in as I said this) 

 

Because of all the boxers I've known back from school, I got a fear of them so didn't continue the conversation after this and just walked back in.. 

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Aidas Baltušis

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Jun 23, 2021, 7:30:47 AMJun 23
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henry...@ntlworld.com

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Jun 23, 2021, 10:19:38 AMJun 23
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I've also seen boxing club member's cars parked in the disabled space. Its highly unlikely that the boxing club has disabled members. If the trustees complain to the landlords (who will pass it on to the boxing club), maybe the problem will get solved. 

Jonathan Hodgson

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Jun 23, 2021, 10:45:21 AMJun 23
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"Me: Hackspace or boxing? 

Driver: Yeah bit of both."

How does that work? "Punch, punch, drill?"


Paddy Duncan

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Jun 23, 2021, 11:11:39 AMJun 23
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Our landlords are aware of the issue and sent a suitable reminder to all Ujima House tenants just a few weeks ago, but it seems to fall on deaf ears as far as some of our fellow tenants are concerned. It is also compounded by the ‘one of your people told us it was fine’ comment, which I have now already heard, 2nd hand, several times this month. For the avoidance of doubt, no individual has the authority to say so.

There have also been threats levelled against some of our members when challenged, some thinly veiled, some not at all, plus the ‘I’m a member anyway’ comments. Notably one of the ‘members’ recently ‘proved’ it by opening the back gate but the card used proved to be one of several registered to someone else entirely (all cards since disabled).

Obviously we (the Hackspace Trustees) do not advise getting into arguments with other tenants or their clients and you must use your own judgement as to whether you are comfortable to challenge anyone. We would however be interest to hear any useful information you may have… trus...@london.hackspace.org.uk

Cheers Paddy

 

 

 

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com <london-h...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jonathan Hodgson
Sent: 23 June 2021 15:45
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] parking

 

"Me: Hackspace or boxing? 

Driver: Yeah bit of both."

How does that work? "Punch, punch, drill?"

 

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 at 15:19, 'henry...@ntlworld.com' via London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I've also seen boxing club member's cars parked in the disabled space. Its highly unlikely that the boxing club has disabled members. If the trustees complain to the landlords (who will pass it on to the boxing club), maybe the problem will get solved. 

On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 at 12:30:47 PM UTC+1 aidasb...@gmail.com wrote:

21:40

 

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021, 12:04 Paddy Duncan, <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:

What time was this?

Cheers

Paddy

 

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com <london-h...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Aidas Baltušis
Sent: 23 June 2021 11:51
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [london-hack-space] parking

 

Some amazing parking yesterday, managing to take up 3 of our parking spaces with 1 car. 

 

As it happens, the driver came out soon after I took the picture. The conversation I had with the guy: 

 

Me: Do you know these are hackspaces parking spots? 

Driver: Hackspace? Yeah I just came from the hackspace (He definitely did not) 

Me: Hackspace or boxing? 

Driver: Yeah bit of both. Do you think people care about parking? 

Me: Yeah, we got 6 spots and the boxers take all of them and we can't park.

Driver: I was speaking to an old man from the hackspace the other day and he told me I can park here 

Me: whatever... (I walked back in as I said this) 

 

Because of all the boxers I've known back from school, I got a fear of them so didn't continue the conversation after this and just walked back in.. 

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Andre Amorim

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Jun 23, 2021, 3:11:21 PMJun 23
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Interesting case,

I was here wondering with my light bulbs (neurons).. 
what are the car parking rules in a private land scenario?
then I just find out on the web


TL/DR, Well that document is just a written common sense ...

ps-> I would take a photo of the car registration number (number plate) too 😉

-AA--

henry...@ntlworld.com

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Jun 23, 2021, 3:23:06 PMJun 23
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Perhaps a second complaint to the landlords with the comment to the effect of:- Why should we be paying rent for a facility we cannot use?
That might persuade them to issue a warning to their tenants to not break the tenancy agreement. The threat of losing their premises should get the offenders to think again.

Adrian Godwin

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Jun 23, 2021, 3:46:40 PMJun 23
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My impression is that the boxing club never caused any problems when we had 2 floors. It's got much worse since we cut down to 1 floor. This might be because we have less spaces, but my impression is that there are more cars. I tend to blame the new occupants of the 1st floor rather than the boxers.
 

Andre Amorim

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Jun 23, 2021, 4:24:57 PMJun 23
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Complex calculations now..

Thinking about drive/parking vehicles I was wondering why Her Masjest does not need a drive licence? Because
you don't need a licence to drive in private land.

I guess England is not a secular state. Correct me if I am wrong.

.AA..


cepm...@yahoo.co.uk

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Jun 23, 2021, 4:42:10 PMJun 23
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HM needs no driving licence because she is the one (ultimately) who issues them. 
For the same reason her personal vehicles have no number plates.


Phil

Ioannes 8:32

----- Reply message -----
From: "Andre Amorim" <dec...@gmail.com>
To: <london-h...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [london-hack-space] parking
Date: Wed, Jun 23, 2021 21:24

Christian Valdivia Torres

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Jun 23, 2021, 4:49:06 PMJun 23
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Ha, that reminds me that in Italy we have alternative conflict resolution strategies for such situations..😂

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Andre Amorim

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Jun 23, 2021, 4:55:09 PMJun 23
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😁

That also reminds me ..

TANK at mcdonald's drive thru

😂

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 at 21:42, 'cepm...@yahoo.co.uk' via London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

deanforbes

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Jun 23, 2021, 6:49:38 PMJun 23
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There have been parking issues from the beginning of our tenancy this has been experienced by many members including myself

I could elaborate extensively but most who use the car park know what this is like

henry...@ntlworld.com

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Jun 23, 2021, 7:56:00 PMJun 23
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Legally the England isn't a secular state, practically it almost is.
Less than 3% of the population regularly attend the state church, the CoE, and more than 50% of the population describe their religion as 'none'.

Deburred -_-

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Jun 24, 2021, 4:49:25 AMJun 24
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I'll take hacking over parking as a new religion

Adrian Godwin

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Jun 24, 2021, 7:11:55 AMJun 24
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Maybe Sink Cam needs to return as a parking attendant

Michael Cullen

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Jun 24, 2021, 8:42:33 AMJun 24
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Oh they did.

They like our spaces because they’re closer to the gate. The irony of avoiding a bit of a walk on your way to exercise is not lost on me…

The only problem I’ve seen with the first floor in this regard is that they have a large number of people turning up at particular times so likely max out their allocation several times over. The reason it’s more of a problem now is that we have fewer spaces, and the ones we had from the first floor were slightly less popular with boxers because they’re a little further from the gate

henry...@ntlworld.com

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Jun 24, 2021, 9:00:48 AMJun 24
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It doesn't help that the barrier is now permanently up.

Jonathan Hodgson

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Jun 24, 2021, 9:08:51 AMJun 24
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Yes, that creates an additional problem of random people taking up spaces while they go shopping or to watch the match or whatever. Why is the barrier up?

What I find particularly irritating is that it's not even like people are only taking our spaces when they are the only ones left. Someone not from the space left their car in one of our spaces overnight last night (well it was 3am when I left and the building seemed pretty dark).

Jonathan Hodgson

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Jun 24, 2021, 9:18:15 AMJun 24
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regarding the "next project signs" I'm thinking the easiest way is probably to pick up a length of this https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Sawn-Kiln-Dried-Timber---22mm-x-47mm-x-2-4m/p/9000036491

cut it into lengths, run a saw slot up the middle and we have bases (maybe do a roundover or bevel on the edges with a router).

Jonathan Hodgson

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Jun 24, 2021, 9:33:02 AMJun 24
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OOPS!! Replied to wrong email. That's to do with the new project shelving!

Adrian Godwin

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Jun 24, 2021, 9:38:52 AMJun 24
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I've often found them parked in the back 3 of our spaces (the ones furthest from the building) with no cars in front of them. Presumably they don't want to be blocked in, but they end up using up two spaces.

stephen o'brien

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Jun 24, 2021, 5:44:12 PMJun 24
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Could we get some of those really,really hard to get off stickers for their windscreens, you know the @you've parked in an unauthourised space things?

Adam Camp

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Jun 25, 2021, 9:05:56 AMJun 25
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I believe the acronym commonly used is "YPLAC" - unfortunately the website to upload such photos to is now defunct :-(

Matt Rutter

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Jun 25, 2021, 9:10:02 AMJun 25
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Adam Camp

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Jun 25, 2021, 9:18:27 AMJun 25
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You, Sir, have just made my day!

Adrian Godwin

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Jun 25, 2021, 3:49:33 PMJun 25
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IMG_20210625_173303618.jpg
IMG_20210625_173330115.jpg
Message has been deleted

Joe England

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Jun 25, 2021, 5:25:46 PMJun 25
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I don't drive to the space so I don't know but would it not be possible to ask the landlord if we can put up some bollards with a chain between them, around our spaces? Seems to work elsewhere.
Message has been deleted

henry...@ntlworld.com

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Jun 26, 2021, 10:43:39 AMJun 26
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A large sign saying "Any unauthorised cars parked in these spaces may be clamped." would work better.
I'm not saying that we should carry out that threat. Just making the threat should be enough of a deterrent.

Ant -

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Jun 26, 2021, 5:39:48 PMJun 26
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Threats of damage are a big no no. Best case they just ignore it, worse case they take it to the landlord and they serve an eviction notice. Even worse case they take it to the police as threats of damage are still illegal even if you say you didn't mean it, the law would argue if you didn't mean it you shouldn't have made the statement and if you put that on a sign it's pretty easy to prove.

Clamping is slightly better but no longer legal on private land so still could lead to the above although the outcomes of them are more likely to be warnings of the actions rather than the actions.

You can put up signs that indicate a fine will be issued to unauthorised parkers, even if you outsource it the whole thing becomes a nightmare to manage though. You need members registrations on record so you don't ticket someone in error as if you use a 3rd party to handle the legal bit you have to pay a fee to cancel a ticket if you issued it in error. It's also technically not a fine but contract law where you state that by parking their they agree to the contract so you potentially go through the courts to collect it and unless that's your business model to do this sort of thing it's not very cost effective.

If you have a motion camera set up to record ideally with audio your better off approaching them and telling them they can't park there in a non threatening way while recording it then when they get hot headed, even if they say they didn't mean it you all the stuff the first suggested sign put you at risk of they are now at risk of.

deanforbes

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Jun 26, 2021, 5:44:44 PMJun 26
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My understanding is that clamping and stickering are legal - though often not advised due to accusations of damage (which is not legal and for which you can face at least a civil claim)  - which is why the councils take so many images when they remove a vehicle 

From the hackspaces perspective whilst I would love to removed the offending vehicles I am not sure I would want members putting them selves at risk or escalating an all ready fraught situation 

henry...@ntlworld.com

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Jun 26, 2021, 9:09:47 PMJun 26
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The act of clamping is illegal, but is a notice with an implied threat of clamping illegal, if no clamping is carried out?

Simon Allcorn

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Jun 27, 2021, 3:43:09 AMJun 27
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Which car parking spaces are ours ? Couldn’t see anything on the wiki.

Simon

Sent from my dog and bone

On 26 Jun 2021, at 22:39, Ant - <hubing...@gmail.com> wrote:



Paddy Duncan

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Jun 27, 2021, 3:55:02 AMJun 27
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The 6 nearest the cage


Simon Allcorn

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Jun 27, 2021, 4:01:00 AMJun 27
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Why can’t we just install some removable bollards ? Or would the landlord object ? 





Sent from my dog and bone

On 27 Jun 2021, at 08:55, Paddy Duncan <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:



Ant -

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Jun 27, 2021, 4:26:26 AMJun 27
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There could be an objection, other aspects are:

what will that cost?

How effective will it be?

How will you move them to park/leave?

I looked into a ground anchor for my bike it about about £60 before installation, they park across 3 spaces so you need to bollard the front and sides of the bays so that cost is going to add up quickly.

If you make it a combination lock then it's likely just a few weeks or a month before one of them somehow gets the combination. If you make it a key then rather than distribute keys to all who drive you could keep the keys in the building so people go in to get them but that only works if we know there arent compromised cards still. Also makes it massive ball ache so how often is this happening?

KP P

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Jun 27, 2021, 5:29:30 AMJun 27
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"Which car parking spaces are ours ? Couldn’t see anything on the wiki."

Could we try marking our spaces very clearly ? if you're a new member in one of the other clubs in the building you may not be aware what the allocation situation is. It might not solve the problem 100% but it may help people parking there by mistake

cheers

Deburred -_-

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Jun 27, 2021, 6:04:51 AMJun 27
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Laser cut spray template, can of lane marking paint?
Just a suggestion.

Adrian Godwin

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Jun 27, 2021, 6:50:30 AMJun 27
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Are the boxing club management helpful ?
If they are, then identifying the culprits (especially if they're consistent) would be helpful. We might even be able to threaten to ban them from the car park.

deanforbes

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Jun 27, 2021, 7:17:34 AMJun 27
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@artag - No 

Ant -

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Jun 27, 2021, 7:22:22 AMJun 27
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There are hackspace logos on the wall ahead of the spaces currently. But spraying the actual spaces with the logo would be clearer especially as they are stacked one infront the other.

deanforbes

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Jun 27, 2021, 7:26:04 AMJun 27
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Yerp its worth doing 

Do we have any volunteers

Adrian Godwin

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Jun 27, 2021, 10:45:33 AMJun 27
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Could we add a notice on the wall stating 
"These 6 places are for use by hackspace members. If they are occupied by other users of the building, you may use spaces elsewhere in the car park"

(any objections that a car is unknown can quickly be answered by issuing hackspace logo badges)


Ant -

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Jun 27, 2021, 11:30:32 AMJun 27
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Hate to seem like I'm just shouting down ideas but I don't think that would be legally backed. It's a bit like if you saw a kid on your street pick some flowers from your front garden so you went and dug up a flower from their parents garden to replace it.

In terms of signs for the window It's likely they could just make one themselves then and suddenly you don't know what is whos.

If you do know its not from Hackspace, how do you know what unit they do belong to so you know what spaces to take? Or if infact they are even from any space at all and not just someone who had been cruising for a parking space, spied the open barrier and decided to chance it because it was 10 mins to kick off.

Adrian Godwin

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Jun 27, 2021, 12:34:08 PMJun 27
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It doesn't matter which spaces you take. It's taking advantage of the landlord's lack of desire to enforce specific spaces. 
I doubt that legal issues are relevant : we're legally allowed 6, so if someone else is using them then they'd have to admit their misuse.
Stickers could change colour every time there is suspected misuse.
The flower analogy seems apt and entirely reasonable. The difference is that you know whose kid it is.



c.ra...@gmail.com

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Jun 28, 2021, 2:01:30 PMJun 28
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If anyone has some traffic cones, perhaps the spaces could be reserved using them (maybe spray paint the cones in hackspace colours), or cones with chains between them. If you park in a space, carry the cone inside the hackspace and put back when you're done. Still could be stolen or moved but might stop some casual misuse. Also might disadvantage the differently-abled.

Aidas Baltušis

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Jul 10, 2021, 7:48:30 AMJul 10
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I've picked up some lane marking spray paint and will paint the Hackspace logo onto the spaces later today

On Mon, 28 Jun 2021, 19:01 c.ra...@gmail.com, <c.ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
If anyone has some traffic cones, perhaps the spaces could be reserved using them (maybe spray paint the cones in hackspace colours), or cones with chains between them. If you park in a space, carry the cone inside the hackspace and put back when you're done. Still could be stolen or moved but might stop some casual misuse. Also might disadvantage the differently-abled.

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Paddy Duncan

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Jul 10, 2021, 9:59:11 AMJul 10
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Fantastic thanks Aidas.

 

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com <london-h...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Aidas Baltušis
Sent: 10 July 2021 12:48
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] parking

 

I've picked up some lane marking spray paint and will paint the Hackspace logo onto the spaces later today

Aidas Baltušis

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Jul 10, 2021, 2:36:40 PMJul 10
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Seems like it didn't help much

PXL_20210710_183544714.jpg

Aidas Baltušis

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Sep 14, 2021, 6:37:23 PMSep 14
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PXL_20210914_180727791.jpgPXL_20210914_204510370.jpg

Got blocked in yet again (picutres taken a few hours apart by the way). Went to 1st and top floor looking for who's car was it and couldn't find anyone. But miraculously as I went back downstairs the Toyota driver was next to the car, getting ready to leave (he was from 1st floor).

Matthew

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Sep 14, 2021, 6:49:29 PMSep 14
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Blocking someone in is unacceptable, but I'd suggest not parking in a posistion that makes it possible - you could always park in the outter bay and leave your mobile number in the window so another Hackspace member can give you a call and ask you to move it forward for them.

Cheers

Henry Best

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Sep 14, 2021, 8:57:41 PMSep 14
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Is there anything we can do to stop non-members from using our parking spaces? When I arrived this evening there was only one other member in the Hackspace and all of our parking spaces were either occupied or blocked. Have the landlords been told about this? If so, what are they doing about it? Maybe we should withhold part of our rent, as we are unable to fully use what we are paying for, until they sort it out. It would also help if they got the entrance barrier fixed.

 

Henry

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Matthew
Sent: 14 September 2021 23:49
To: London Hackspace
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] parking

 

Blocking someone in is unacceptable, but I'd suggest not parking in a posistion that makes it possible - you could always park in the outter bay and leave your mobile number in the window so another Hackspace member can give you a call and ask you to move it forward for them.

Cheers

 


Virus-free. www.avast.com

Ant -

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Sep 15, 2021, 1:54:45 AMSep 15
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In his second reply in this thread Paddy says the landlords are aware and send reminders on it to all tenants at the start of June that fell of deaf ears. As for what we can do legally you can stop entry to the space but not exit so potentially could ask permission to install those bollards you can raise and lower but given how the guy parked in the 1st post in this thread unless you put a LOT of them in I think they would just park round them and we would still have to deal with the inconvenience of raising and lowering them. If there was a key to do that it could be kept in the cage but thats a lot of cost and effort. If someone does block you in that isn't a member in the space then you could report it to the cops but my experience is varied in terms of what response you will get from them from where people have blocked me in at home.

Kind regards
Ant

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henry...@ntlworld.com

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Sep 15, 2021, 8:42:48 AMSep 15
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The car park is private land, so I doubt that the police would get involved. I like the idea of sunken, raiseable bollards, but agree that the cost of installation would be prohibitive, even if the landlords were to agree to them. Even before installation, a survey would have to be done to ensure that there were no 'services' underneath where the post were to go. The problem of having to use a key could be overcome by using a modified door bot to allow them to be lowered. Touch your card and press the number of the bollard that you want lowered, a solenoid in the base pulls the locking pin which allows the bollard to fall by gravity. 
We could try bigger and better signage to deter parking in our spaces, although I think that it still would be ignored by some.
Another approach would be some sort of temporary barrier, like one layer of pallets (with a big label "Property of London Hackspace" on each of them) covering our spaces. Not too difficult to move, but sufficiently annoying to deter random parking in our area. Members would need to remember to replace them when they left. Or we could make 6 large 'A' boards (1Mtr x 1Mtr) with the sign "This space reserved for Hackspace members ONLY" in large type. Again, only a deterrent, not a complete solution.