The new space is cold.

[Richard Stevenson]

I was, briefly, in the space yesterday, and found the upstairs area (I didn't use the downstairs workshops), to be pretty cold. If it's like that in June, it's going to be unusable in January. I hear that the heating system is catastrophically uneconomical, is this true? If it's the case, might I suggest some discussion about creative ways to keep the space, or parts of it, warm enough for people to be comfortable without extensive layering up? Cheap insulation strategies and ceiling lowering spring to my mind.

Richard

[olympia...@gmail.com]

What about double glazed windows?

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From: Richard Stevenson <ninjac...@gmail.com>

Sender: london-h...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 01:57:10 -0700 (PDT)

To: <london-h...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: london-h...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [london-hack-space] The new space is cold.

I was, briefly, in the space yesterday, and found the upstairs area (I didn't use the downstairs workshops), to be pretty cold. If it's like that in June, it's going to be unusable in January. I hear that the heating system is catastrophically uneconomical, is this true? If it's the case, might I suggest some discussion about creative ways to keep the space, or parts of it, warm enough for people to be comfortable without extensive layering up? Cheap insulation strategies and ceiling lowering spring to my mind.

Richard

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[SamLR]

A simple alternative to proper double glazing (which is likely to be expensive) would be to use simple frames with plastic sheet over the windows, it's a bit ghetto but provides a nice insulation layer. Another thing we should look at is something to keep the drafts from the roller-door down as that's likely to be a huge loss of heat. 

Unfortunately beyond those things everything else is likely to be expensive. 

S

[tom]

or a jumper. We have a knitting machine..

[olympia...@gmail.com]

Plastic sheeting is a better idea.

------------------

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From: SamLR <sam.lind...@gmail.com>

Sender: london-h...@googlegroups.com

Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2013 10:19:02 +0100

To: Hackspace Mailing List<london-h...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: london-h...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] The new space is cold.

[Nick Johnson]

It's probably more useful to improve the door between the entrance area and the main space than to tackle the roller door specifically. Better for security, too.

-Nick

[David Murphy]

I know we like natural light but those slatted windows are horrific for keeping in the heat. some rolls of insulation rolled across them would make a world of difference though I'd leave that till after the summer since it's mostly a fairly pleasant temperature at the moment. 

[Russ Garrett]

On 10 June 2013 10:36, Nick Johnson <arac...@notdot.net> wrote:
> It's probably more useful to improve the door between the entrance area and
> the main space than to tackle the roller door specifically. Better for
> security, too.

Sam is talking about the rear roller shutter.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Nick Johnson]

Oh, right. Duh.

[Clare Greenhalgh]

That depends which roller door Sam meant... we have two remember!

It is cold when it is cold, but I just wore lots of clothes and had a hot water bottle. Fingerless gloves are essential too. It will be ok, and looking at ways to improve it now is definitely the right time.

[SamLR]

I did mean the rear one, I forgot that there's one at the front (not at the space enough). 

That being said it's not obvious what a good way of tackling the rear roller shutter and I suspect this is the location we're going to lose the most heat through. If we dont need to use it much treating it the same as the windows (i.e. plastic sheet on wooden frame) should be fine but I imagine we'll want to maintain some use so we may have to look at alternative solutions. The idea would be to put another room around it to isolate the entire area but that's likely too expensive and cumbersome. 

Possibly some big doors, either inside or outside to make a porch area? 

S

[wyan std]

The main problem is that the windows don't close, so if there's a slight breeze on the outside it just enters the space. So the first thing to do would be to actually stop the wind from coming into the space. Plastic sheeting sounds cheap enough to be done :-)

The other thing is, as soon as the door that goes to the back entrance is open (the one next to the kitchen), there's a chilly breeze across the classroom and main area. Just remember to keep that one closed!

If I have to carry an extra bag with clothes and a hot water bottle, going to the space is going to be just impractical...

[David Sullivan]

On Monday, 10 June 2013 09:57:10 UTC+1, Richard Stevenson wrote:

I was, briefly, in the space yesterday, and found the upstairs area (I didn't use the downstairs workshops), to be pretty cold. If it's like that in June, it's going to be unusable in January. I hear that the heating system is catastrophically uneconomical, is this true? If it's the case, might I suggest some discussion about creative ways to keep the space, or parts of it, warm enough for people to be comfortable without extensive layering up? Cheap insulation strategies and ceiling lowering spring to my mind.

There are some outstanding repairs to be done to eliminate some of the serious heat leakage. Next time you're in the yard and the roller shutter is down go over to it and look up.

Sully.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

Curtains would seem the obvious choice. Big thick red velvet ones with
gold tassels. ;P
Or just bog standard old blackout curtains. Something weighty will stop
them from moving and keep all but the most forceful draughts out. And we
can just pull them aside when we actually want to use the doors like on
summer open-days and BBQs (hence first suggestion of something dramatic).

On 10/06/2013 10:48, SamLR wrote:
> I did mean the rear one, I forgot that there's one at the front (not at
> the space enough).
>
> That being said it's not obvious what a good way of tackling the rear
> roller shutter and I suspect this is the location we're going to lose
> the most heat through. If we dont need to use it much treating it the
> same as the windows (i.e. plastic sheet on wooden frame) should be fine
> but I imagine we'll want to maintain some use so we may have to look at
> alternative solutions. The idea would be to put another room around it
> to isolate the entire area but that's likely too expensive and cumbersome.
>
> Possibly some big doors, either inside or outside to make a porch area?
>
> S
>
>
>
> On 10 June 2013 10:44, Nick Johnson <arac...@notdot.net

> <mailto:arac...@notdot.net>> wrote:
>
> Oh, right. Duh.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Russ Garrett <ru...@garrett.co.uk
> <mailto:ru...@garrett.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> On 10 June 2013 10:36, Nick Johnson <arac...@notdot.net

> <mailto:arac...@notdot.net>> wrote:
> > It's probably more useful to improve the door between the
> entrance area and
> > the main space than to tackle the roller door specifically.
> Better for
> > security, too.
>
> Sam is talking about the rear roller shutter.
>
> --
> Russ Garrett

> ru...@garrett.co.uk <mailto:ru...@garrett.co.uk>

>
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[Russ Garrett]

On 10 June 2013 09:57, Richard Stevenson <ninjac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I hear that the heating
> system is catastrophically uneconomical, is this true? If it's the case,
> might I suggest some discussion about creative ways to keep the space, or
> parts of it, warm enough for people to be comfortable without extensive
> layering up? Cheap insulation strategies and ceiling lowering spring to my
> mind.

This is definitely on our minds - our estimate is that heating will
cost us in excess of £1000/month if we do nothing. In order of
priority:

1) Sort out the top of the roller shutter - there's a massive gap there.
2) Do something about the louvre windows on the side by the road -
we've been discussing glass bricks here, because they'll also deaden
traffic noise.
3) Insulate the louvre windows on the rear - this'll be a film job, I think.
4) Further insulate the roller shutter (ideas?)
5) Toilet windows: these are good candidates for a complete
replacement, but we'd need to combine that with new extract
ventilation, and that might start getting costly.

That said, we have a couple more months to think about this, so no rush.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Sam Kelly]

I'm keen on the curtain idea - blackout curtains or even just the poly strip type would cut down a great deal of the heat loss from the roller shutter, and would be easy to manage on a track, while taking up very little room inside the space.

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Sam Kelly, http://www.eithin.co.uk/

That's it.  We're not messing around anymore, we're buying a bigger dictionary.  -  Tibor Fischer, The Thought Gang.