Yard Cycle Parking installation imminent . . .

[tenyen]

Heya,

tl:dr:  Survey went fine:  there is budget and goodwill at the council,

if someone is handy with drawing plans it might make the "bikeshedding"

go faster so we can get on with assuming consensus and get the parking

installed . . .

Looong version:

Yesterday the next cyclist arriving after me, asked

if I was leaving; more to do with poor use of existing space

(there were "only" 14 bikes in the yard), but it was pretty near to

capacity and the fences aren't a great place to park your bike . . .

so I arrived today and the next cyclist arriving after me, asked

if I was leaving; more to do with poor use of existing space

(theres "only" 14 bikes in the yard), but its pretty near to

capacity and the fences aren't a great place to park your bike . . .

so I'm apologising for not getting on with getting the cycle parking

as per this thread:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/london-hack-space/b3hY25PRh4I/WjDdkL03T0QJ

but if "we" (I was hoping there would be more feedback/attendance around

the survey, but I assume everyones happy/ not bothered with whatever

might happen) want to make it go faster it would be good to know

we've reached "consensus" so I can get back to the guy from the council

and get it installed . . .

there is a plan of the yard converted, by jasper, from pdf here:

https://github.com/londonhackspace/hackneyroad/blob/master/yard.dxf  

 

(click on raw to download it and you can view it in inkscape or LibreCAD).

(anyone recommend a lighter dfx viewer?  ideally in an ubuntu package

and not a java program: replies off thread plz .  . .)

I think the blue rectangles are the 5hoop (10 place) size, but  

we could have a combination of (3,4 and hoop) different sizes.

some specs are here:

http://www.cyclehoop.com/product/bike-racks-and-cycle-stands/bike-toast-rack/

. . . to that end if your good with "drawing" plans/ (libre)CAD/ inkscape/

whatever I could do with a hand visualising the following (or would

it be cool to chalk/ spray out a template and take a photo?)

(In order of *my* preference and priority:)

1. 3 or 4 hoop (the limiting factor is clearance for the drain  

covers (they will probably never be lifted, but blocking them would

be silly?) unit lengthwise next to the ramp leading up to back door.

Reasoning:  close to the door for un/loading and far from passers by on Emma

St.  It seems the favourite bike parking place is the loading bay

stairs, which isn't great.  (the blue rectangle in the above plan     

blocks the the exit and is the wrong way round (I worked out how to rotate

and move but thought it better to share and then continue to mess

with inkscape/ github . . .)

2. 4 or 5 hoop in the Northwest corner.  positioned roughly where the other

blue rectangle is in the above plan, but with more clearance from the

fence and allowing good access to the "bay" (possible position for

more gardening, storage or maybe even a door(bot)), limiting factors

are the size of the flat bit of concrete. ((I) hope to remove the

Buddlia ASAP (see my other post))

3. 4 or 5 hoop in SW corner of yard so one end would be in front of

laser cutting venting (!?), the other allowing clearance for the ramp.

4. 5 hoop rack *in* the parking space in front of the back door.

5. remaining capacity (were being offered upto 20 places (10 hoops) 

`Somewhere in the far North East corner (/"bay"). (I imagined this is

where we would eventually have a door(bot) flush with the wall. so maybe in 

the middle, leaving room for the bins?  as with the buddlia i want

to remove the ivy soon, but it'll still be the least attractive corner:

too visible from the street/ hidden by whatever projects and the bins

and furthest from the door.

feed back and offers of help please (ideally not from Jasper, he is

already busy being awesome in so many ways . . . .)

[Paul Randle-Jolliffe]

The file on gihub says

(Sorry about that, but we can't show files that are this big right now.)

--

Paul Randle-Jolliffe Esq

Land Line: +44 (0) 207 193 9991
Mbl: +44 (0) 7 411 99 6893

Fax: +44 (0) 871 266 8130

 

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[Alex Pounds]

On Wed, Oct 09, 2013 at 08:04:52PM -0700, tenyen wrote:
> tl:dr: Survey went fine: there is budget and goodwill at the council,

> feed back and offers of help please.

Thanks for putting the work in on this; I'm super-keen to see us get some
proper bike racks in the carpark. In an ideal world I'd like to see racks
set back from the road, but I think the important thing is to have the
racks wherever they end up.

--
Alex Pounds
Web Developer & Photographer

http://alexpounds.com/ | http://ethicsgirls.com/

[Richard Patterson]

Nice work Tenyen.

+1 for the stairs to the loading bay being sub-optimal for bike parking.

I'd also like to chip in my somewhat biased view of ideally not placing the hoops so that they might encroach on the loading bay space.

I assume your option 1 is the South East corner between the back door and loading bay as depicted in the DXF?  

The impact on access to the drain definitely should be considered.  We've already noticed that running water, when we brew, doesn't drain away sufficiently fast enough to avoid overflowing of the main drain.  So we may have to investigate said drains in the near future.

I was also thinking that that wall would be the best spot to mount an outside garden hose tap, given the existing indoor plumbing.

As mentioned above, I'm somewhat biased given that I regularly use the loading bay and that I don't have a bike. :) 

-Richard

[gl...@genesismachines.co.uk]

What colour should it be?

[Ten Yen]

Heya,

tl:dr: Survey went fine: there is budget and goodwill at the council,
if someone is handy with drawing plans it might make the "bikeshedding"
go faster so we can get on with assuming consensus and get the parking
installed . . .

Looong version:

so I arrived today and the next cyclist arriving after me, asked
if I was leaving; more to do with poor use of existing space
(theres "only" 14 bikes in the yard), but its pretty near to
capacity and the fences aren't a great place to park your bike . . .

so I'm apologising for not getting on with getting the cycle parking
as per this thread:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/london-hack-space/b3hY25PRh4I/WjDdkL03T0QJ

but if "we" (I was hoping there would be more feedback/attendance around
the survey, but I assume everyones happy/ not bothered with whatever
might happen) want to make it go faster it would be good to know
we've reached "consensus" so I can get back to the guy from the council
and get it installed . . .

theres a plan of the yard converted, by jasper, from pdf here:

feed back and offers of help please (ideally not from Jasper, hes

already busy being awesome in so many ways . . . .)

--
http://tenyen.net/

[tenyen]

Heya,

so I've just got a mail from the chap at the council trying to move this

along;  so this is a thread-bump and final warning of imminent cycle

parking installation (in the spirit of consensus based do-ocracy):

speak now or don't be surprised that there might be bike parking where

you were planning to put A Thing, or differently placed to exactly

how you imagined it.  For anyone having an anxiety attack right now,

the racks are only "semi-permanent"; but you'll need quite a few grinding

discs to move them.

I got no offers of help with "illustrating" the possibilities;

and haven't time to look at it again myself,  was anyone waiting for

this to happen or struggling with the download (I just got back to

Paul off-list)?  right now it feels like I was procrastinating about

getting it right, instead of just getting it done . . .

If I don't hear from anyone by 20:20 on Monday 21st I'll go with options

1 and 3, and if theres any possibility of more than option 2 (without

harming the Buddlia, but if you really care about it I suggest you protect

it somehow).

reply inline:

X Richard Patterson [2013-10-10 10:05] :

> I'd also like to chip in my somewhat biased view of ideally not placing the

> hoops so that they might encroach on the loading bay space.

>

> I assume your option 1 is the South East corner between the back door and

> loading bay as depicted in the DXF?

> The impact on access to the drain definitely should be considered.

>  We've

> already noticed that running water, when we brew, doesn't drain away

> sufficiently fast enough to avoid overflowing of the main drain.  So we may

> have to investigate said drains in the near future.

> I was also thinking that that wall would be the best spot to mount an

> outside garden hose tap, given the existing indoor plumbing.

>

> As mentioned above, I'm somewhat biased given that I regularly use the

> loading bay and that I don't have a bike. :)

thanks for the feedback: yes. without a picture or plan its hard

to describe, but the rack will be away from the wall and the SE most

drain cover comes before the loading bay so thats not a problem at all.

werd,

--

http://tenyen.net/

[Henry Sands]

I would like to see the bike rack by the back door, between it and the caravan, this would keep the bikes out of sight mostly and near an access point, obviously don't put them in such a way as it inhibits access to the back door but I think that would be a very suitable place. Going against the back wall ajacent to the rear door would be good as well, as long as it didn't block the loading bay.

[Russ Garrett]

My extremely high-tech recommendation would be to sketch the proposal
on a piece of paper - if you want to be really fancy, use a ruler -
then take a photo of it.

I consider myself relatively skilled in CAD and I still use paper
drawings a *lot*.

Russ

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[tgreer]

Can't the bikes be over nearer the bins? Why do they need to be right at the front door? What if I want to park there? etc etc.

[tenyen]

Heya,

On Friday, 18 October 2013 23:09:46 UTC+1, Russ Garrett wrote:

My extremely high-tech recommendation would be to sketch the proposal
on a piece of paper - if you want to be really fancy, use a ruler -
then take a photo of it.

I consider myself relatively skilled in CAD and I still use paper
drawings a *lot*.

heh, guilty-as-charged for defaulting to a technical solution.  

The chap from cyclehoops took a few tape measure photos on the 

survey day,which I *might* be able to get hold, but probably not 

before Monday morning at the earliest.

But does anyone want a drawing for the purpose of clarifying

something and/or giving their "blessing" before Monday night?

werd,

--

http://tenyen.net/

  

 

[tenyen]

Heya,

On Friday, 18 October 2013 23:07:30 UTC+1, Henry Sands wrote:

I would like to see the bike rack by the back door, between it and the caravan, this would keep the bikes out of sight mostly and near an access point, obviously don't put them in such a way as it inhibits access to the back door but I think that would be a very suitable place.

so this would be option 4, but I like the idea of leaving space in front of the caravan (for marveling/hanging out/embarkation), and space in front the door for access (e.g. a wheelchair user pulling up in a car or Angelina Jolie to make a quick exit on roller blades . .)

 

Going against the back wall adjacent to the rear door would be good as well, as long as it didn't block the loading bay.

Not *against* the back wall (there are drains there and you want room for bikes to stick out (and maybe a tap) and people to walk around I would place it as far away from the wall as possible without being over a manhole cover (but a bike parked on it might slightly obstruct access to the manhole covers).  This is option one with a 3 or 4 loop rack.

Just for clarification:  I'm proposing option 1 *and* 2 (in front of the windows/ laser cutting vent).

werd,

--

http://tenyen.net/

[tenyen]

Heya,

On Friday, 18 October 2013 23:57:30 UTC+1, tgreer wrote:

Can't the bikes be over nearer the bins?

Thats option 5.  Its less convenient than option 1 and/or 2, less secure 

(visibility of bikes), I'm not sure about how regular the surface is under all the ivy, 

and there are bins there. 

Why do they need to be right at the front door?

they don't *need* to be, can you think of anything that does?

 

What if I want to park there? etc etc.

well its hard to park in front of the windows because someone has put a trailer mast there ;P

and there is the ramp edge.  option 1 leaves, more useful, space for this kind of 

access (see my reply to Henry).

werd,

--

http://tenyen/

[tgreer]

I'm happy for them to be between the entrance and the caravan, as long as they're sufficient distance from the entrance. I just don't think that dumping them right at the front door is a good idea and that they should be maybe where the BBQ is?

Putting them right next to the laser fume extraction system is never good, much as I dislike cyclists in London, I wouldn't wish them to get ill from the fumes. Also right by the power source is not ideal either. The trailer mast wont be there forever, and it's good to have that space to work on things with power.

[wyan std]

The North Eastern corner is the most infrautilised part of the carpark, and there is a good view of it from inside the space.

--

[David LHS]

Hi Tenyen / everyone,

Thanks for sorting this out, I've been leaving my bike in Hackney Road
and walking round.

On 19/10/2013 00:20, tenyen wrote:
> But does anyone want a drawing for the purpose of clarifying
> something and/or giving their "blessing" before Monday night?

That'd be great, can't read the file you linked to. Is a PDF possible? A
slight extension on the deadline would be nice if a new file is made
available.

My preference is to use the space that isn't readily usable for working,
i.e. sloping or edge spaces such as the east wall by the back door and
the NE corner by the gate along the fence with 445. Dividing up the yard
would limit future projects and believe it or not usable flat concrete
space is hard to come by in London and one of the space's best assets.

David.

[Jasper Wallace]

On Sat, 19 Oct 2013, David LHS wrote:

> Hi Tenyen / everyone,
>
> Thanks for sorting this out, I've been leaving my bike in Hackney Road and
> walking round.
>
> On 19/10/2013 00:20, tenyen wrote:
> > But does anyone want a drawing for the purpose of clarifying
> > something and/or giving their "blessing" before Monday night?
>
> That'd be great, can't read the file you linked to. Is a PDF possible? A
> slight extension on the deadline would be nice if a new file is made
> available.

Attached is a png, you should be able to open the file with librecad
(which is free).

> My preference is to use the space that isn't readily usable for working, i.e.
> sloping or edge spaces such as the east wall by the back door and the NE
> corner by the gate along the fence with 445. Dividing up the yard would limit
> future projects and believe it or not usable flat concrete space is hard to
> come by in London and one of the space's best assets.
>
> David.
>
>

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

[tenyen]

Heya,

looks like I might have to postpone the Monday deadline 

(minumum a few hours, maximum a couple of days after 

some kind of consensus is reached, but no more than two weeks: 

its already dragging on, but I'm glad an imminent deadline has got

some reaction) unless I can get a few more voices in 

favour (especially of option 1). . .

some responses inline . . . .

On Saturday, 19 October 2013 08:31:23 UTC+1, tgreer wrote:

I'm happy for them to be between the entrance and the caravan,

off the top of my head there are about 3 car parking spaces between the caravan and the door (not allowing for

good access to the caravan) a 5 hoop rack (maybe more) would fit in one car parking space,   I'd put it in the middle one

(I'll create a wiki page with re-ordered priorities/ descriptions in a while).  I had assumed that there would be more

protests about using a usable car parking space, so I had de-prioritised this option.  Also on days when the caravan

is in use you would lose an extra car parking space for good access, and if anyone uses the space nearest the door (should this be designated as disabled priority and loading/unloading only?) than it gets a bit crowded.

as long as they're sufficient distance from the entrance. I just don't think that dumping them right at the front door is a good idea.

could you elaborate? "right at the front door" is a bit emotive. "My" Option 1 puts the bike parking to the side of the back door  (most commomly used entrance?), a space thats not currently used (I'm not a car driver, but I don't think this is a great parking space, I've never seen it used as such). 

and that they should be maybe where the BBQ is?

I'll list this as another option, but it would be second from bottom preference (and I see this as

a flexible use space: BBQ/ Bench/ Parking/ Assembly/ Storage(!) that shouldn't be segmented/

made smaller by cycle parking. . .. 

Putting them right next to the laser fume extraction system is never good, much as I dislike cyclists in London, I wouldn't wish them to get ill from the fumes.

again "Right next to" is a bit emotive.  I had briefly considered it, and I think the benefits outweigh the risks. I'd like a 2nd opinion of the actual dangers (especially compared to while being in the space/ the operator of the cutter or just walking past to unlock a bike on the fence when it might be producing said fumes).

 

Also right by the power source is not ideal either.<snip> , and it's good to have that space to work on things with power.

this is an argument for "Extension Cords" or to install/ pledge for more outdoor power sockets?  I don't see how bike

parking hinders this.

> <snip> The trailer mast wont be there forever.

I like the idea of it being a semi-permanent fixture as an awesome

piece of kit few individuals could have access to (at least till its proved to be

under utilised, or someone gets a "Vampire" Landrover), but I think were in a 

position to install much needed bike parking way before the wheels are put back, 

let alone before its roadworthy or fully functioning.

werd,

--

http://tenyen.net/

[tenyen]

Heya,

On Saturday, 19 October 2013 14:10:55 UTC+1, wyan wrote:

The North Eastern corner is the most infrautilised part of the carpark, and there is a good view of it from inside the space.

I'm guessing you mean under-utilised.  that would be a true statement.  I think its under

utilised for a reason:  Near to where the bins should be, poor surface, close to the 

road etc, etc. but its "works" as an "extension" of what I define as the "multipurpose outdoor" area.

and could be a place to put a door in the future?

Have you got anything against any of the Higher preference positions? 

werd,

--

http://tenyen.net/

[Clare Greenhalgh]

I like where they are on the map. Those two areas l think do not get in the way of the parking or the various place people work on project there.

It will be much better when the bikes have somewhere to go and I think it will also reduce the thefts.

--

[Ten Yen]

Heya,

so I've just got a mail from the chap at the council trying to move this
along; so this is a thread-bump and final warning of imminent cycle
parking installation (in the spirit of consensus based do-ocracy):

speak now or don't be surprised that there might be bike parking where
you were planning to put A Thing, or differently placed to exactly
how you imagined it. For anyone having an anxiety attack right now,
the racks are only "semi-permanent"; but you'll need quite a few grinding
discs to move them.

I got no offers of help with "illustrating" the possibilities;
and haven't time to look at it again myself, was anyone waiting for
this to happen or struggling with the download (I just got back to
Paul off-list)? right now it feels like I was procrastinating about
getting it right, instead of just getting it done . . .

If I don't hear from anyone by 20:20 on Monday 21st I'll go with options
1 and 3, and if theres any possibility of more than option 2 (without
harming the Buddlia, but if you really care about it I suggest you protect
it somehow).

reply inline:

X Richard Patterson <ric...@helix.net.nz> [2013-10-10 10:05] :

> I'd also like to chip in my somewhat biased view of ideally not placing the
> hoops so that they might encroach on the loading bay space.
>
> I assume your option 1 is the South East corner between the back door and
> loading bay as depicted in the DXF?
> The impact on access to the drain definitely should be considered.

> We've
> already noticed that running water, when we brew, doesn't drain away
> sufficiently fast enough to avoid overflowing of the main drain. So we may
> have to investigate said drains in the near future.
> I was also thinking that that wall would be the best spot to mount an
> outside garden hose tap, given the existing indoor plumbing.
>
> As mentioned above, I'm somewhat biased given that I regularly use the
> loading bay and that I don't have a bike. :)

[Paddy Duncan]

If it is not too late (catching up):
I and other have been looking into pedestrian gate locations and in our
opinion the best location would be in the north-south aligned part right by
northernmost bike rack. In the attached diagram the rack will block off the
whole corner. Is the location/size accurate, or could it nudge up a little?
Otherwise it looks great.
Paddy

[tgreer]

I still think these should be over to the north east corner by the bins.

[Richard Patterson]

Hi Ten Yen,

Do they provide us with a plan prior to deployment?  Or is it our responsibility to provide them with one?

Will you, or someone one else be expected to oversee their install?

I'm personally still against the "option 1" by the back door, as it is a main thoroughfare, and blocking (at least restricting) it is never a good idea.

However if it has to go there, if we can make sure that the south east install is not placed too close to the building wall, and doesn't overlap the loading bay.

IMO flat along the inner fence line adjoining 445 is the best option.

-Det

--
http://tenyen.net/

[David Sullivan]

On Wednesday, 23 October 2013 10:47:38 UTC+1, Richard Patterson wrote:

Hi Ten Yen,

Do they provide us with a plan prior to deployment?  Or is it our responsibility to provide them with one?

Will you, or someone one else be expected to oversee their install?

I'm personally still against the "option 1" by the back door, as it is a main thoroughfare, and blocking (at least restricting) it is never a good idea.

However if it has to go there, if we can make sure that the south east install is not placed too close to the building wall, and doesn't overlap the loading bay.

IMO flat along the inner fence line adjoining 445 is the best option.

Given that sheffield stands allow you to park a bike on each side when they're at 90 degrees or on the slew this certainly isn't the best option with many of the same disadvantages of the fence as it stands now if they're flush with the fence.

Sully.