Resistence is futile

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Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 4, 2012, 3:41:53 PM10/4/12
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TL;DR: Borg is useful, it will be moved in to the backroom and we will
monitor power consumption.

So first off the 'eatallthepower' machine that is/was in the main room
will not be Borg, we're going for a lower power version. There's been
a lot of debate about Borg. Most of the concern has been about:
1. That it is taking up space,
2. Will it be useful,
3. The electricity costs.

I am pro Borg but these are valid concerns. Usefulness is a pretty
easy one to deal with. It can be used for many things including
recording the cams to give poor Babbage a bit of breathing room,
putting individual shell accounts on there so Babbage doesn't get
overloaded and eventually putting Babbage out to pasture. Other
suggestions have included giving people an environment for
crosscompiling (moving it from Lovelace) and moving a lot of the
random computers around the space that do just one thing.

This will have the benefit of saving us some power by sharing it in
one machine. This goes some way to help offset the extra power Borg
will take.

Obviously Borg may still consume more power and some people are
concerned about the extra cost. We (tgreer and me) will be monitoring
the usage as closely as we can, our goal is to be under 275W.
Admittedly a number I plucked out of my arse but seems like a
reasonable goal based upon similar hardware that is heavily used. We
costed this to be about £27 per month but obviously this is the
maximum and we aim to be well under that. If it goes over 275W
regularly we can then have a discussion about how best to either
reduce it, or using a different solution entirely.

We will of course be keeping a careful eye on the power consumption to
get a baseline. We'll also try to get a gauge from Babbage, Lovelace
and Tesla to have a comparison.

As for location, we have devised a cunning plan. It has been
previously discussed that the Laser Cutter be placed in the back room
in the workshop, potentially we could move that in there and stack the
Borg underneath it. It's not ideal, it may not fit, and we need magic
solexious approval, but it's worth a try, and it gets it out of the
main or quiet areas. I'll be in the space on Monday so I'll attempt to
measure stuff up and move whatever needs moving (help would be
appreciated). Tgreer is north of the border until Tuesday so it will
be worked on then.

I'm open to better suggestions there does seem a general consensus
that it Borg is a good idea, and a very vocal minority totally against
it for one reason or another. Hopefully greater transparency and a
proper plan will improve that.

Matt

Charles Yarnold

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Oct 4, 2012, 3:55:22 PM10/4/12
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On 4 October 2012 20:41, Matthew Copperwaite <matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
As for location, we have devised a cunning plan. It has been
previously discussed that the Laser Cutter be placed in the back room
in the workshop, potentially we could move that in there and stack the
Borg underneath it. It's not ideal, it may not fit, and we need magic
solexious approval, but it's worth a try, and it gets it out of the
main or quiet areas.

I've been against this every time this has been brought up mostly as this would make it a huge PITA to do maintenance on it should it be shoe horned into there. That's not to say Borg couldn't be put in there anyway.

I'm open to better suggestions there does seem a general consensus
that it Borg is a good idea, and a very vocal minority totally against
it for one reason or another. Hopefully greater transparency and a
proper plan will improve that.

I suggest you get the 'non-vocal majority' to speak up as they don't seem to exist as part of the communicating community, something it would be great to see as until then the majority of the vocal membership seem to be against it. (I'm neither one way or the other on it, should it be low power and take up little room, but saying "most people agree but they don't say anything" isn't a good argument in your favour)

Hugs

Sol

Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 4, 2012, 4:14:42 PM10/4/12
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On 4 October 2012 20:55, Charles Yarnold <charles...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4 October 2012 20:41, Matthew Copperwaite <matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> As for location, we have devised a cunning plan. It has been
>> previously discussed that the Laser Cutter be placed in the back room
>> in the workshop, potentially we could move that in there and stack the
>> Borg underneath it. It's not ideal, it may not fit, and we need magic
>> solexious approval, but it's worth a try, and it gets it out of the
>> main or quiet areas.
>
>
> I've been against this every time this has been brought up mostly as this
> would make it a huge PITA to do maintenance on it should it be shoe horned
> into there. That's not to say Borg couldn't be put in there anyway.

Sure, I understand that. Let's say we don't move the Laser Cutter in
there and we do move Borg in, are we good to move the Laser Cutter
around a little bit?

>>
>>
>> I'm open to better suggestions there does seem a general consensus
>> that it Borg is a good idea, and a very vocal minority totally against
>> it for one reason or another. Hopefully greater transparency and a
>> proper plan will improve that.
>
>
> I suggest you get the 'non-vocal majority' to speak up as they don't seem to
> exist as part of the communicating community, something it would be great to
> see as until then the majority of the vocal membership seem to be against
> it. (I'm neither one way or the other on it, should it be low power and take
> up little room, but saying "most people agree but they don't say anything"
> isn't a good argument in your favour)

I didn't and wouldn't say that. I would say most people at best are
indifferent, and indifference is fine. It is all anecdotal in the end
but there seems to be a general trend on IRC that as long as we have
thought about each persons concern which falls in to one of the above
3 categories they move in to indifference or even pro-Borg, which is
why I sent this e-mail out. If people have another concern I'm happy
to try to address it.

>
> Hugs
>
> Sol

Matt

Monty

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Oct 4, 2012, 4:37:46 PM10/4/12
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What/Where is the backroom?

Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 4, 2012, 4:46:14 PM10/4/12
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On 4 October 2012 21:37, Monty <mont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What/Where is the backroom?

I'm lead to believe it's behind the Laser Cutter. I'm prepping my
spelunking gear for Monday.

Matt

Kimball Johnson

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Oct 4, 2012, 4:49:37 PM10/4/12
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That sounds like the darkroom/bio lab. That's not an available room.

K

Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 4, 2012, 4:54:04 PM10/4/12
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On 4 October 2012 21:49, Kimball Johnson <kim...@bowerham.net> wrote:
> That sounds like the darkroom/bio lab. That's not an available room.

Don't worry, if it's obviously in use we're not going to start
throwing servers in there.

Matt

Monty

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Oct 4, 2012, 4:59:46 PM10/4/12
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Ah, the "store" room.

Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 4, 2012, 5:02:17 PM10/4/12
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On 4 October 2012 21:59, Monty <mont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, the "store" room.

That would be an apt name. So to be specific it's the other ex-toilet
next to the darkroom/bio lab.

Not saying it's perfect, it's just a likely candidate at the moment.

Peter "Sci" Turpin

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Oct 4, 2012, 5:03:20 PM10/4/12
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So, the disused toilet/storage-room that's not the biohacking room?

Russ Garrett

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Oct 4, 2012, 5:08:05 PM10/4/12
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On 4 October 2012 20:41, Matthew Copperwaite <matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Obviously Borg may still consume more power and some people are
> concerned about the extra cost. We (tgreer and me) will be monitoring
> the usage as closely as we can, our goal is to be under 275W.
> Admittedly a number I plucked out of my arse but seems like a
> reasonable goal based upon similar hardware that is heavily used. We
> costed this to be about £27 per month but obviously this is the
> maximum and we aim to be well under that. If it goes over 275W
> regularly we can then have a discussion about how best to either
> reduce it, or using a different solution entirely.

If you can keep it below 300W, and you're removing Babbage, then you
have my go-ahead. Babbage needs replacing with a better machine. If
it's using more power than that, then I'd like to see exactly what
extra benefit it's giving the space.

I agree with Solexious that the back room isn't going to be big enough
to put the laser cutter in, but I'm not entirely sure what that has to
do with the core of this discussion anyway.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

Charles Yarnold

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Oct 4, 2012, 5:14:19 PM10/4/12
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On 4 October 2012 21:14, Matthew Copperwaite <matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
Sure, I understand that. Let's say we don't move the Laser Cutter in
there and we do move Borg in, are we good to move the Laser Cutter
around a little bit?

I would rather the cutter wasn't moved around at all as its easy to misalign it with bumps and cause a couple of hours of tweaking to get it back on its feet. If its totally necessary give me a shout and I will come down to help :)   

Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 4, 2012, 5:16:52 PM10/4/12
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Yes, I completely agree with both you and Russ there. I was under the
impression the Laser Cutter was in the way of the door but a quick
look at the cams show it is clearly not and can be totally ignored
from this discussion.

Matt

Peter "Sci" Turpin

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Oct 4, 2012, 5:41:00 PM10/4/12
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Can we mount it in a filing cabinet in there? And install OSX 10.5 on
it? With appropriate warning sign, of course.

Morris

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Oct 4, 2012, 5:44:43 PM10/4/12
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+1 in favor of having.
--
>
++++++++++[>+>+++>++

+++++>++++++++++<<<<
-]>>>+++++++.>++++++
+++++.+++..---------
.++++++++++.<<+++.<.

cepm...@yahoo.co.uk

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Oct 4, 2012, 6:02:38 PM10/4/12
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+1 to the general idea of having one of these servers doing useful tasks
and replacing some of the aging kit that is currently consuming space and
power anyway.

If the team sorting this stuff out can produce some actual figures and a
sensible plan for the use of the equipment then we can make an informed
decision. So far all we seem to have is wild guesses and supposition.

Phil

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "



On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:41:53 +0100, Matthew Copperwaite
<matt...@gmail.com> wrote:

> TL;DR: Borg is useful, it will be moved in to the backroom and we will
> monitor power consumption.

>

Jasper Wallace

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Oct 4, 2012, 8:18:02 PM10/4/12
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On Thu, 4 Oct 2012, Matthew Copperwaite wrote:

> On 4 October 2012 21:49, Kimball Johnson <kim...@bowerham.net> wrote:
> > That sounds like the darkroom/bio lab. That's not an available room.
>
> Don't worry, if it's obviously in use we're not going to start
> throwing servers in there.

It's the room to the left of the darkroom/biolab ("The Otters pocket").

It currently has, in the handbasin area:

The vacuum kit, currently bring worked on by Sci. This stuff is important
and should not be messed about with in anyway.

A broken bandsaw - i talked to Phil about it recently and he was of the
opinion that it was junk and should be chucked. If anyone knows anything
about bandsaws and wants to have a look at it that would be great.

and in the toilet area:

Some long large dia. plastic tubing that was the golf ball race/cupcake
delivery system thing.

some golf balls.

some parts for an electic bike conversion (or something like that), with
an expired(?) DNH sticker - I phoned the number on the sticker but got no
reply to the message i left, it can be chucked out now.

There was a load of other stuff in the toilet area that i clared out over
the last week or 2 with a view to putting the 19in rack that came back
from emfcamp in that room, but it's clear now that we can't really justify
putting a full rack in there, and there isn't really enough room for
it anyway. (It would have to go in a corner and it would be a real pain to
mount stuff in it).

That room dosn't have power or a network connection, it also carries the
fume extraction pipe from the laser cutter and everything in the room is
covered in a thin layer of brownish gunk from mdf cutting fumes. Personaly
I don't think it's a good place to put a server cos of the fumes, but we
don't have much choice.

We could put it on a shelf high up in one of the real toilets. The noise
wouldn't be a problem and it would help to keep the toilets warm (esp.
important as we get into winter!) and the pretty flashing lights would
give people something to look at while they do there business :P

P.S. The space has a nameing scheme for servers etc:

http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/System_naming

Maybe 'neumann' since it will have multiple vm's on it?

P.P.S. in case it isn't clear to people this vm machine will be running
24/7 (as it's a replacement for babbage), The 'monster' machine is a
seperate idea, and will only be on when we are using it, and may not be i
the space for ever.

> >
> > K
> >
> > On 4 October 2012 21:46, Matthew Copperwaite <matt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 4 October 2012 21:37, Monty <mont...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> What/Where is the backroom?
> >>
> >> I'm lead to believe it's behind the Laser Cutter. I'm prepping my
> >> spelunking gear for Monday.
> >>
> >> Matt
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thursday, 4 October 2012 20:42:16 UTC+1, Matthew Copperwaite wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> TL;DR: Borg is useful, it will be moved in to the backroom and we will
> >>>> monitor power consumption.
> >>>>
> >>>
>

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

Peter "Sci" Turpin

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Oct 4, 2012, 8:59:21 PM10/4/12
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I'm curious about a couple of things;

If Borg is intended to run VMs, does that include desktops? If so, why
not use it to replace Lovelace/Tesla as well? The only constantly
utilised system in the space seems to be Babbage, VMs and "net-access
terminal" are both infrequently used. If power use is a big concern and
we're upgrading hardware anyway, why not run them all on one machine as
several VMs?
Also, with all but one of the computer systems (the lasercutter PC)
being in unit 24, why the aim to fit it in unit 23? Seems like it'd mean
spreading upkeep a bit wide. (also the laser has had problems with
proximity to the plasma cutter and welders, I'd be concerned even more
delicate equipment like a server being moreso)

Adrian Godwin

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Oct 4, 2012, 9:10:03 PM10/4/12
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On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 1:18 AM, Jasper Wallace <jas...@pointless.net> wrote:
>
> A broken bandsaw - i talked to Phil about it recently and he was of the
> opinion that it was junk and should be chucked. If anyone knows anything
> about bandsaws and wants to have a look at it that would be great.
>

I'm not sure which one this is (there have been so many ..) but if
it's the vertical one I bought from Earthshine's friend, and which
eventually burnt out the motor, it's fine to chuck it away. Though I
thought it already had been, so it might be a different one...

-adrian

Peter "Sci" Turpin

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Oct 4, 2012, 9:16:13 PM10/4/12
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I've got a motor that came off a structurally damaged bandsaw. Might fit?

Adrian Godwin

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Oct 4, 2012, 9:17:14 PM10/4/12
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On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 1:59 AM, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> I'm curious about a couple of things;
>
> If Borg is intended to run VMs, does that include desktops? If so, why not
> use it to replace Lovelace/Tesla as well? The only constantly utilised
>

Not sure how you'd provide the screen /.console, which is a
fundamental part of having Lovelace. A thin client is a possibility
but people seem to be impatient with low-performance machines and a
think client is always going to be slower than something with local
processing.

> Also, with all but one of the computer systems (the lasercutter PC) being in
> unit 24, why the aim to fit it in unit 23? Seems like it'd mean spreading

The big advantage would be keeping a relatively noisy machine out of
the main room. If it's not noisy (I'm not sure which machine is
proposed, maybe it's quiet) it matters less.

> upkeep a bit wide. (also the laser has had problems with proximity to the
> plasma cutter and welders, I'd be concerned even more delicate equipment
> like a server being moreso)
>

This is a very good point.

-adrian

Martin (Crypt)

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Oct 5, 2012, 3:15:07 AM10/5/12
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Exactly what warning does OSX need? maybe a 'This may cause you to buy
overpriced shit' warning.

Seriosly though, if we're gunna be moving out soon, is it worth doing
lots of heavy moving and putting up new cabnets? might just be better
to wait until we get a new space
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Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 5, 2012, 3:30:56 AM10/5/12
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On 4 October 2012 22:41, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> Can we mount it in a filing cabinet in there? And install OSX 10.5 on it?
> With appropriate warning sign, of course.

So there is a server rack but for the reasons Jonty explained
(admittedly after your e-mail) it would most likely be impractical.
We'll be looking at other 'solutions'.

As for installing a particular OS, I don't see why not but let's not
start choosing the colour of the curtains just yet.

Matt

Spike (Chris Foote)

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Oct 5, 2012, 4:00:44 AM10/5/12
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*Sigh* OSX 10.5 = 'Leopard'. Leopard? Disused lavatory? Filing cabinet?
Warning sign?? 42??

Jon Fautley

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Oct 5, 2012, 4:12:13 AM10/5/12
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On 5 October 2012 01:18, Jasper Wallace <jas...@pointless.net> wrote:
> P.S. The space has a nameing scheme for servers etc:
>
> http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/System_naming

I picked 'borg' as it was on the list of potential names
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Borg). Although I did also mostly
choose it because it was a large, annoying square box and was going to
'assimilate' other systems in the space.

> Maybe 'neumann' since it will have multiple vm's on it?

That would seem to be a better fit.

Jon

Jon Fautley

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Oct 5, 2012, 4:14:11 AM10/5/12
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On 5 October 2012 01:59, Peter "Sci" Turpin <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:
> I'm curious about a couple of things;
>
> If Borg is intended to run VMs, does that include desktops? If so, why not
> use it to replace Lovelace/Tesla as well? The only constantly utilised
> system in the space seems to be Babbage, VMs and "net-access terminal" are
> both infrequently used. If power use is a big concern and we're upgrading
> hardware anyway, why not run them all on one machine as several VMs?
> Also, with all but one of the computer systems (the lasercutter PC) being in
> unit 24, why the aim to fit it in unit 23? Seems like it'd mean spreading
> upkeep a bit wide. (also the laser has had problems with proximity to the
> plasma cutter and welders, I'd be concerned even more delicate equipment
> like a server being moreso)

Russ had the idea of virtualising layzor and using a thin client to
connect to it. I think that would work for other "internet terminals",
but perhaps not for lovelace because of the requirement for
full-screen youtube.

It was suggested to put the server in Unit 24 simply because of the
noise and the ability to find some spare space (in the disused
lavatory).

Jon

Jon Fautley

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Oct 5, 2012, 4:15:04 AM10/5/12
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On 5 October 2012 09:00, Spike (Chris Foote) <sp...@tenbus.co.uk> wrote:
>
> *Sigh* OSX 10.5 = 'Leopard'. Leopard? Disused lavatory? Filing cabinet?
> Warning sign?? 42??

If it's any help, I got it.

Martin (Crypt)

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Oct 5, 2012, 4:18:04 AM10/5/12
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Sorry yes, my early morning brain not quite awake yet
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Nigel Worsley

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Oct 5, 2012, 5:10:36 AM10/5/12
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> A broken bandsaw - i talked to Phil about it recently and he was of the
> opinion that it was junk and should be chucked.

The bandsaw is on loan from me, it should not be chucked!

If it is no longer wanted then I will remove it.

Nigle

Jasper Wallace

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Oct 5, 2012, 6:34:06 AM10/5/12
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On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, Jon Fautley wrote:

> On 5 October 2012 01:18, Jasper Wallace <jas...@pointless.net> wrote:
> > P.S. The space has a nameing scheme for servers etc:
> >
> > http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/System_naming
>
> I picked 'borg' as it was on the list of potential names
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Borg). Although I did also mostly
> choose it because it was a large, annoying square box and was going to
> 'assimilate' other systems in the space.

ah yes, oops i hadn't realised.

> > Maybe 'neumann' since it will have multiple vm's on it?
>
> That would seem to be a better fit.

borg is fine.

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

Jasper Wallace

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Oct 5, 2012, 6:41:21 AM10/5/12
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On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, Peter \"Sci\" Turpin wrote:

> I'm curious about a couple of things;
>
> If Borg is intended to run VMs, does that include desktops? If so, why not use
> it to replace Lovelace/Tesla as well? The only constantly utilised system in
> the space seems to be Babbage, VMs and "net-access terminal" are both
> infrequently used. If power use is a big concern and we're upgrading hardware
> anyway, why not run them all on one machine as several VMs?
> Also, with all but one of the computer systems (the lasercutter PC) being in
> unit 24, why the aim to fit it in unit 23? Seems like it'd mean spreading
> upkeep a bit wide. (also the laser has had problems with proximity to the
> plasma cutter and welders, I'd be concerned even more delicate equipment like
> a server being moreso)

the tesla/lovelace machine needs to have decent 3d performance cos
orignally it was used to drive the makerbot and do 3d cad cam stuff. I'm
assuming that at some point the space will get a working 3d printer again
(hah!) and then we'll need a decent machine to drive it.
--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

Billy

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Oct 5, 2012, 6:49:59 AM10/5/12
to London Hackspace

I'm working on the Reprap for the space.

Sorry about the time that this is taking. My level of togetherness
varies quite widely.

I'm using one of the laptops that Simon donated as an initial machine,
though that's just for the testing. Once it's functional then we can
sort a more effective machine to use.

samthetechie

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Oct 5, 2012, 7:08:38 AM10/5/12
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, Matthew Copperwaite
May I just say here that Jasper makes quite a compelling case for installing the servers- pretty lights in the toilet ftw

Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 5, 2012, 9:09:21 AM10/5/12
to tgreer, london-h...@googlegroups.com
On 5 October 2012 13:55, tgreer <ukt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Screw it. No VM server. They're all being sold. This is too much hassle and
> stress for everyone involved.

Aww... and it was all looking so likely. I even got the wiki page set up.

What insurmountable problem ticked you off this time?

Matt

Jon Fautley

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Oct 5, 2012, 9:12:46 AM10/5/12
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On Fri, Oct 05, 2012 at 02:09:21PM +0100, Matthew Copperwaite wrote:
> On 5 October 2012 13:55, tgreer <ukt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Screw it. No VM server. They're all being sold. This is too much hassle and
> > stress for everyone involved.
>
> Aww... and it was all looking so likely. I even got the wiki page set up.

JFDI. Deal with the fallout later. It'll be much easier than the current
course(s) of action.

Mark Steward

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Oct 5, 2012, 9:15:45 AM10/5/12
to london-h...@googlegroups.com, tgreer
What's wrong with Matt's suggestion for a lighter-weight server to take things like the Stratasys and laser cutter software (which both require Windows) and the non-webcam parts of Babbage?  We can still run VMs in 275W of power.

Matthew Copperwaite

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Oct 5, 2012, 9:36:43 AM10/5/12
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I'm happy to put it all together myself. Need pointing to the right
server and it might take more time but I will make it happen. Just
trying to make it as painless of an experience as possible for as many
people as I can.

Matt

Dean Forbes

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Oct 5, 2012, 12:09:49 PM10/5/12
to london-h...@googlegroups.com
As we have the hardware it would in my mind be criminal not to use it and build a beast that can be turned on and used when we require big horse power 

I don't have a need for it personally but is the hackspace not about exploring skills and boundaries, pulling that creativity out that we all have etc and applying it to hacking 

6 months ago I did not need a solder station .... today I spent a few hours at it 

:-)



On Thursday, 4 October 2012 20:42:16 UTC+1, Matthew Copperwaite wrote:
TL;DR: Borg is useful, it will be moved in to the backroom and we will
monitor power consumption.

SamLR

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Oct 5, 2012, 12:37:16 PM10/5/12
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<2cents>
If we can reduce the number of individual machines (babbage, lazor etc) and replace with thin clients running from a single, low power server this is good. 

If we have some huge mega machine consisting of multiple machines taking up ~1m^3 which gets spun up once in a blue moon when someone wants to play around with a massively parallelised machine: sod that. 

Assuming we can virtualise babbage and layzor for under 300W we save money (and don't lose too much space). Keeping a behemoth will be ultimately useless. Make it, spin it up for the fun value then sell the bloody thing. 

tl;dr: keep one, low power server; use it to replace babbage, layzor and give people a place to spin up VMs as required
</2cents>

S

Charles Yarnold

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Oct 5, 2012, 1:28:24 PM10/5/12
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I agree with Sam in all but one point, laz0r is the least on pc in the space, virtualising it will give the least power saving of all the computers in the space.

Jasper Wallace

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Oct 5, 2012, 6:15:01 PM10/5/12
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> There was a load of other stuff in the toilet area that i clared out over
> the last week or 2 with a view to putting the 19in rack that came back
> from emfcamp in that room, but it's clear now that we can't really justify
> putting a full rack in there, and there isn't really enough room for
> it anyway. (It would have to go in a corner and it would be a real pain to
> mount stuff in it).

Someone has moved the (unassembled) rack in there, thank you for doing
that whoever it was!

now we need to find the bag of bolts (a small white cloth bag).

--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

Paddy Duncan

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Oct 5, 2012, 6:19:20 PM10/5/12
to london-h...@googlegroups.com
Matthew and I moved the rack in there after the fire brigade stared at it..
We did not see a white cloth bag though, just a small white box which I
thought contained such bits.
Paddy
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Jasper Wallace

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Oct 5, 2012, 6:29:31 PM10/5/12
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On Fri, 5 Oct 2012, Paddy Duncan wrote:

> Matthew and I moved the rack in there after the fire brigade stared at it..
> We did not see a white cloth bag though, just a small white box which I
> thought contained such bits.

That box has some cable managemrnt bits in it, the bolts are in a cloth
bag.

I've had a poke around and can't find it, hopefully it will turn up.


--
[http://pointless.net/] [0x2ECA0975]

Jasper Wallace

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Oct 9, 2012, 7:34:56 AM10/9/12
to london-h...@googlegroups.com

Billy

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Oct 9, 2012, 7:42:43 AM10/9/12
to London Hackspace

I think that one is Nigel's.

It's on loan, not a donation.

Shout him and he'll remove it if it's not needed.

I think that it just needs repairing and then proper inductions on
using it.

When it's running, the blade heats up, so you need to tighten the
blade to make it safe to use. You've also got to loosen it off
afterwards, otherwise when the blade cools and shrinks, it snaps at
the weld point.

Dean Forbes

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Oct 11, 2012, 5:42:47 AM10/11/12
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Hello

If the current saw is on loan and there is a need ,,, how about something like this 

For steel stock I have found a workshop reciprocating metal saw invaluable

Adrian Godwin

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Oct 11, 2012, 8:04:40 AM10/11/12
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I have one of those which I'd be willing to donate if there's a need. However, they're large and slow, and a bandsaw is probably more use for most Hackspace work.
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