Ultrasonic Welder: where can I borrow/rent one?

[medad...@gmail.com]

Good morning,

I am currently designing a high altitude floater balloon and I am trying to fuse together Mylar space blankets together. I am building a custom foil balloon because there is no balloon large enough available on the market. I am thinking of building a 1.8m spherical balloon.

The trouble is, biaxially-oriented PET film(e.g. mylar) simply does not bond under heat. It becomes brittle and very weak. Adhesives are not strong enough.

I was wondering if ultrasonic welding will work to hold the film together. I was wondering if anyone knows someone who owns an ultrasonic/RF welder. Ultrasonic welders are used in fusing together PET blister packaging and assembling surgical masks.

I just need to prove/disprove whether it is possible to fuse mylar together with an ultrasonic welder. A small test piece(10cm x 10cm) is all I need to fuse together.

Many thanks for your help in advance

Medad

[Scott Young]

I can buy 3kg lifting latex weather balloons here that are 150" normal inflated diameter. That is 3.8 meters. An alternative option would be a mattress bag which you could probably obtain for free from a furniture store. You can also attach multiple envelopes to one payload.

As for mylar, I have never tried ultrasonic, but they make a chemical bonding kit for it. Depending on the life expectancy you could get away with thinned contact cement and a layer of tuck tape or whatever equivalent you have available on that side of the pond. Its a sheathing tape for sealing stuff like vapour barrier in houses. Its usually translucent red and sticks way better than any user ever intends. 

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[Medad rufus]

Thanks Scott for the leads.

 

I can buy 3kg lifting latex weather balloons here that are 150" normal inflated diameter. That is 3.8 meters

The type of balloon I am building is a super pressure balloon:  A balloon with a constant volume, that will float for long periods of time(months). Latex balloons will burst in a few hours.

An alternative option would be a mattress bag which you could probably obtain for free from a furniture store. You can also attach multiple envelopes to one payload.

Matress bags I would imagine are made of thick Polyethylene, far too heavy for balloons. The target flight heights are 12km+ altitude. I am tragetting a balloon weight of ~40 grams. The film must be very strong and light.

Indeed, most large balloons have been built with adhesives to hold the BO-PET film together. Like in the seminal work on superpressure balloons:

Superpressure Balloons for Horizontal Soundings of the Atmosphere

Medad

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[Lisbon Lisbon]

Hi there! Does anyone have any idea, based on the "Road map" from Boris, when hackspace may reopen soonest?

Many thanks,

Dan

[henry...@ntlworld.com]

That would depend on whether we're a "non-essential business" or a "social club".

[Lisbon Lisbon]

What do the hackspace board make of it? If non essential shops reopen 12 April, I can't see why hackspace wouldn't reopen, at best there are 10 people in there at any one time...

[Paddy Duncan]

This particular fifth of it considers us akin to a library..... 

But we haven't discussed it officially yet 

Paddy

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[Adrian Godwin]

Open with restrictions might also be a possibility, since we don't have staff like a library. Maybe we could open with a maximum of one group having existing contact (household is a bit  inappropriate) per room.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/177d50c9a88.27a8.72808798d72693d9702ae6ff0aaa9716%40padski.co.uk.

[Lisbon Lisbon]

When will it be discussed?

Many thanks,

Dan

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[Scott Young]

I asked a member at my space here who builds absurdly lightweight model aeroplanes. He uses a mylar tape with a lower temp activated adhesive for mylar wing skins. It is applied with heat from an iron (for clothes) or sometimes uses the small heat gun on the soldering station at a low temperature. It comes on a roll with no label from a local hobby shop which is probably not super helpful for you to find it.

I don't know if it would hold up in the cold temps of the upper atmosphere. I am curious what you end up doing though. We have a somewhat silly space program here and I am tempted to develop a rockoon as a launch vehicle.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAKuB44SHitUHX6gVNzpzBOw8xtmHp0dCi5m8%2BA3HBpbV-x4Q1A%40mail.gmail.com.

[Joe England]

I would definitely say that we are a ‘club’ rather than a ‘non essential business’. But, obviously, this is brand new legislation so there isn’t much, or any, case-law on the subject. Generally, however, where Parliament hasn’t further defined a term then courts will use definitions that have become the custom and the practice in other areas of law.

As my expertise, such as it is, is in tax, I would suggest that the trustees have a look at HMRC’s definition of a “member’s club” from their Business Income Manual, https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-manual/bim24210.

I can’t find any legislative reference to a “social club”, therefore I am unable to start looking for any case law which might specifically define that term. However, in this Parliamentary debate, https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-09-21/debates/135d5c96-837c-4f59-bd9a-12e4b6741db2/HealthProtection(CoronavirusWearingOfFaceCoveringsInARelevantPlace)(England)(Amendment)Regulations2020HealthProtection(CoronavirusWearingOfFaceCoverin?highlight=%22social%20club%22#contribution-06C47493-5DC1-4969-A5EE-E4A2235C194E, reported in Hansard it is suggested that a “registered social club” should be treated differently to a pub because it keeps a register of who is inside, which we do. I cannot actually find any statutory reference to a “registered social club” either, therefore I assume that the speaker just means a club that keeps a register.

Although what is said in a Parliamentary debate isn’t law, courts can take debates into account when interpreting legislation, from Pepper v Hart (that really confused me when I was learning it since we only cared about the fact that Hart only had to pay tax on the marginal cost of his kids’ schooling, whereas Wiki is all about the Hansard bit, but I digress).

[Paul Harding]

There will be much discussion and the trustees will decide. I suspect they will take into acciunt the discussion. When they are silent they are often listening.

My ha’penny (0.20833 recurring pence decimal new money) is that like museums we are ‘indoor entertaiment’, I mentioned once before some of our stuff makes us qualify as museum anyway! So that would be step 3. 

I’m involved in re-opening arguments in other realms. It’s really not very clear even to lawyer types. Be nice to the trustees. They have legal liabilities and we should protect them even if they’re so vague about the accounts. 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/08330099-f007-45bf-b68a-4eeb0f89f307%40gmail.com.

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[Joe England]

P.S. If I recall correctly, the corona virus legislation only states what must close - not 'everything must close except these...'. Therefore, if we are neither a 'non-essential business' or a 'members' club' then we should be good to reopen in any case but I haven't looked this time.

Also, as I recall, the College of Policing, which I believe provides the guidance on legislation for police forces has said that the police should proceed by education rather than punishment in the first instance. So, if we reopen and the local police aren't happy with it I would expect that we will just get a tap on the window and a 'clear off you lot, don't you know there's a pandemic on'.

[Joe England]

Indeed, an unenviable task, to be sure!

[Paul Harding]

College of policing are very broadbrush and eductional,  ACPO got abolished (started challenging government) and replaced by NPCC (national police chiefs’ council). These new lot work with the college of policing but it’s all about standards etc. Not interpreting law, which currently talking to plod wot I kno, chief constables and ordinary constables are as bemused as you and I (and wondering why they arent priority for vaccination since they are regularly spat on coughed on). 

Be nice to plod (for the time being), be nice to trustees (until next election). Be nice to everyone? 

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[Jonathan Hodgson]

Personally, I'm perfectly happy for the Trustees to make the judgement and reopen when they think it is both legal and sensible.

But it would be nice to have some idea of when it will be so I can make decisions about what things I defer until I have hackspace access and what things I find an alternative solution for.

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[wisam...@gmail.com]

I never thought of the Hackspace or used it as such. It would not fit neatly under "non-essential business", but between the two I would definitely say that hackspace is non-essential business. Regardless of the categorisation though, I think the key point is whether the space can be used safely without it being a place where transmissions happen. Considering the number of people that usually use it, I think there is enough space there to have people spaced out safely, and I would hope that a decision is based with that in mind. 

[Paddy Duncan]

Slight update from the board: a majority of us agree that April 12^th looks do-able with the usual caveats (govt conditions are met by then, complying with all recommendations at that time, applying our own common sense etc. regarding numbers, behaviour et al.).

And yes as you say, safe us, not being a transmission hub etc is more important than our classification, and I’ll save my longwinded ‘library’ explanation for the pub one day..

Cheers

Paddy

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/f196ca7a-83cb-40d2-a007-320647fbd0a6n%40googlegroups.com.

[Adrian Godwin]

I think library is a good description from a functional point of view, but we tend to have occupancy levels much lower than those imagined when they considered 'library' for the recommendations. And since that and ventilation are the majority of the concern, it makes a big difference.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/000401d70ba3%24682be180%243883a480%24%40padski.co.uk.

[Daniel Edgecumbe]

Not a member at present, though I find myself on this list and have been following the discussions.

I agree that generally the trustees should prioritise the empirical nature of the space over trying to shoehorn it into a category. When I visited at some points in the last year there could be 1 or 2 people inside for hours at a time, I believe that at that time each room was limited (self-policed) to an occupancy of 1 also.

Daniel Edgecumbe

On Thu, Feb 25, 2021, at 21:49, Adrian Godwin wrote:
> I think library is a good description from a functional point of view,
> but we tend to have occupancy levels much lower than those imagined
> when they considered 'library' for the recommendations. And since that
> and ventilation are the majority of the concern, it makes a big
> difference.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2021 at 6:24 PM Paddy Duncan <pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote:

> > Slight update from the board: a majority of us agree that April 12th looks do-able with the usual caveats (govt conditions are met by then, complying with all recommendations at that time, applying our own common sense etc. regarding numbers, behaviour et al.).____
>
> > And yes as you say, safe us, not being a transmission hub etc is more important than our classification, and I’ll save my longwinded ‘library’ explanation for the pub one day..____
>
> > Cheers____
>
> > Paddy____
>
> > __ __
>
> > __ __
>
> > *From:* london-h...@googlegroups.com <london-h...@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *wisam...@gmail.com
> > *Sent:* 25 February 2021 11:53
> > *To:* London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Subject:* Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Reopening date?____
>
> > __ __
>
> > I never thought of the Hackspace or used it as such. It would not fit neatly under "non-essential business", but between the two I would definitely say that hackspace is non-essential business. Regardless of the categorisation though, I think the key point is whether the space can be used safely without it being a place where transmissions happen. Considering the number of people that usually use it, I think there is enough space there to have people spaced out safely, and I would hope that a decision is based with that in mind. ____
>
> > On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 23:12:47 UTC j.r.h...@gmail.com wrote:____

>
> >> Personally, I'm perfectly happy for the Trustees to make the judgement and reopen when they think it is both legal and sensible.
> >>

> >> But it would be nice to have some idea of when it will be so I can make decisions about what things I defer until I have hackspace access and what things I find an alternative solution for.____
>
> >> __ __
>
> >> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 at 22:58, Joe England <jwren...@gmail.com> wrote:____
>
> >>> Indeed, an unenviable task, to be sure!____
>
> >>> __ __
>
> >>> On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 22:50:56 UTC p.ha...@paniscus.com wrote:____
>
> >>>> There will be much discussion and the trustees will decide. I suspect they will take into acciunt the discussion. When they are silent they are often listening.____
>
> >>>> __ __
>
> >>>> My ha’penny (0.20833 recurring pence decimal new money) is that like museums we are ‘indoor entertaiment’, I mentioned once before some of our stuff makes us qualify as museum anyway! So that would be step 3. ____
>
> >>>> __ __
>
> >>>> I’m involved in re-opening arguments in other realms. It’s really not very clear even to lawyer types. Be nice to the trustees. They have legal liabilities and we should protect them even if they’re so vague about the accounts. ____
>
> >>>> __ __
>
> >>>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2021 at 17:35, Lisbon Lisbon <airlis...@gmail.com> wrote:____
>
> >>>>> When will it be discussed? ____
>
> >>>>> Many thanks,____
>
> >>>>> Dan ____
>
> >>>>> On 24 Feb 2021, at 17:27, Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com> wrote:____
>
> >>>>>> Open with restrictions might also be a possibility, since we don't have staff like a library. Maybe we could open with a maximum of one group having existing contact (household is a bit inappropriate) per room. ____
>
> >>>>>> __ __
>
> >>>>>> __ __
>
> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2021 at 5:18 PM Paddy Duncan < pad...@padski.co.uk> wrote: ____
>
> >>>>>>> This particular fifth of it considers us akin to a library..... ____
>
> >>>>>>> But we haven't discussed it officially yet ____
>
> >>>>>>> Paddy ____
>
> >>>>>>> __ __
>
> >>>>>>> On 24 February 2021 16:53:26 Lisbon Lisbon <airlis...@gmail.com> wrote:____

>
> >>>>>>>> What do the hackspace board make of it? If non essential shops reopen 12 April, I can't see why hackspace wouldn't reopen, at best there are 10 people in there at any one time...
> >>>>>>>>

> >>>>>>>> ____
>
> >>>>>>>> On 24 Feb 2021, at 16:48, "' henry...@ntlworld.com' via London Hackspace" < london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote: ____
>
> >>>>>>>>> That would depend on whether we're a "non-essential business" or a "social club". ____
>
> >>>>>>>>> __ __
>
> >>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, 24 February 2021 at 12:10:43 UTC airlis...@gmail.com wrote: ____
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hi there! Does anyone have any idea, based on the "Road map" from Boris, when hackspace may reopen soonest? ____
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Many thanks, ____
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Dan ____
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> __ __

>
> >>>>>>>> --
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> >>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/e774f659-a319-4a18-b48e-30f937f5e6d4%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/e774f659-a319-4a18-b48e-30f937f5e6d4%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. ____
>
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>
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> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/177d50c9a88.27a8.72808798d72693d9702ae6ff0aaa9716%40padski.co.uk <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/177d50c9a88.27a8.72808798d72693d9702ae6ff0aaa9716%40padski.co.uk?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. ____

>
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> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CALiMYrveHzudLh956H2%3D7isQmToHCzZVbidj-%3DgUnKeOEz2zHQ%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CALiMYrveHzudLh956H2%3D7isQmToHCzZVbidj-%3DgUnKeOEz2zHQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. ____

>
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> >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com.____
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> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/08330099-f007-45bf-b68a-4eeb0f89f307%40gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/08330099-f007-45bf-b68a-4eeb0f89f307%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.____
>
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>
> >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile____

>
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> >>> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/f39962a5-a678-4c23-ba42-d60fc95513den%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/f39962a5-a678-4c23-ba42-d60fc95513den%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.____

>
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> > To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/f196ca7a-83cb-40d2-a007-320647fbd0a6n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/f196ca7a-83cb-40d2-a007-320647fbd0a6n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.____

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[Eitan Carmona]

Werent we open during tier 4, didn't seem a big problem, people behaved themselves...

[Andre Amorim]

Hi,

💡what about an online scheduling system so we can book a slot online connected to the door, then we can  limit the number of members in a day ... 

so we can keep social distance and be more COVID-19 secure..

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/d6a4c8bf-9756-4d39-a1dc-9ccedb2b703e%40gmail.com.

[Jenny Chapman]

Hola! Long time lurker, first time emailer.

Will you be accepting new members when you reopen?

(Perhaps it's too early to say, but hope to be (safely!) hacking soon!)

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/d6a4c8bf-9756-4d39-a1dc-9ccedb2b703e%40gmail.com.

[Paddy Duncan]

Hi Jenny,

Yes we will 😊

Technically we never stopped accepting members, but it would probably be a bit cheeky to encourage new people to join when we’re shut..

Paddy

 

From: london-h...@googlegroups.com <london-h...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Jenny Chapman
Sent: 25 February 2021 23:03
To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Reopening date?

 

Hola! Long time lurker, first time emailer.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CA%2B74p7obAQ0edyJ8gHM5Duff_Wp0oZdUR9Kr-zO0ovGnmydXjA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Adrian Godwin]

I  guess we might continue to have rather limited training options (eg for laser cutter use) if we have to reopen with restricted group sizes.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/005b01d70c19%24efd5c940%24cf815bc0%24%40padski.co.uk.

[Ruth Lloyd]

Hi

I was wondering if there is any difference in how soon the space can be used if it's for educational purposes?

I am currently trying to complete my masters degree and i've been using the BioHackSpace, this was amazing during tier 4 before Christmas.

This last year has been a challenging one to study in, especially on a practical course!

I'm aware educational spaces open earlier, i believe it's beginning of March rather than April.

Does it have to be everything opening up at once ( in terms of the hackspace) or is there any chance of it opening sooner for education access if appropriate, for those in that category?

Whenever i've been in, because i tend to come during weekdays i've been working alone in the lab so as far as social distancing restrictions it's ever been an issue?

thanks

Ruth 

[Andre Amorim]

Hi Ruth,

That is a very interesting question. For instance, in my case I would like to meet at HS club people interested in Computer Networking, Electronics and Entrepreneurship, Start-ups,

"à la" hacker hostel style ;-) 

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[Eitan Carmona]

Hi, any news on reopen date?

Many thanks!

On 8 Mar 2021, at 08:19, Eitan Carmona <eits...@gmail.com> wrote:

Good morning all, I wondered if we have any news on reopening? Will is be 12th April?

Many thanks,

Eitan Carmona

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[Paddy Duncan]

Assuming all the Govt’s conditions are met, then yes it is looking like April 12^th or thereabouts. An official announcement will happen in due course

Paddy

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[Lisbon Lisbon]

Many thanks Paddy. Looking forward to it!

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/003101d723c7%24272b6b60%2475824220%24%40padski.co.uk.

[Dax Liniere]

I am SO excited about this. :D Pencilled in the calendar!