* Formic acid, 98% extra pure reagent grade 500ml
* Nitric acid, 40% reagent grade 1.7l
* n-Heptane analytical grade 1.8l
* Na dichromate, ebay grade, 1.6kg
* Ca(OCl)2, reagent grade 250g
* H2SO4, 98% analytical grade, 2.5l
* Potassium ferricyanide, commercial grade, 400g (potentially more
kicking around elsewhere)
* NaOH, commercial grade (maybe a bit damp), 15kg
* Unmarked container of white powder, possibly cocaine or reagent grade
* Benzyl alcohol, reagent grade, 500ml
* Acetic acid, 37% reagent grade, 2.5l
* Very impure glycerol (so bad that it's brown - biodiesel waste), 50l
* H2SO4 reagent grade, 800ml
* Sulfur powder, ebay grade, 200g
* Zinc powder, ebay grade, 400g
* KNO3, ebay grade, 1kg
* Glacial acetic acid, ebay grade, 5l
* Phenolphthalein, lots of little 50ml dropper bottles of solution in
* NaHCO3, analytical grade, 1kg
* Ferric nitrate, commercial grade, 1.5kg
* NaCl, analytical grade, 1kg
* Urea, fertiliser grade, 4kg
* Diammonium phosphate, fertiliser grade, 400g
* K2SO4, fertiliser grade, 2kg
I also have some lab glassware, can list that on request.
I've got an idea for an interesting project with the ferricyanide, but
that's for another email.
You're probably expecting an explanation regarding why I have all these
chemicals. Unfortunately, I have no good reason to give here.
FWIW, anything the Hackspace doesn't want I'll happily have ;-)
On 7/3/11, Alec Wright <ale...@member.fsf.org> wrote:
I am in favour of all of these chemicals (and more).
Ask what Chin Chin Labs  use if you want to be certain. I seem to
recall they use metal, but they may well know of glass suitable for
nitro, or may have used it in the past.
"The ‘Net is a waste of time, and that’s exactly what’s right about
it." ~ William Gibson
Well, that depends how concentrated they are. The acids are probably
the most useful stuff out of that lot, so I think we should look into
a way of storing them safely.
Incidentally we have a big 5l container of conc HCl in the metal cupboard.
Yes, anodising would be a very useful technique in the space - it can
provide a good finish for turned & milled items, and the laser will
burn it, so it provides a method of marking or decorating metal that
isn't possible with the laser alone.
I believe this would require sulphuric acid for the anodising process,
Nitric acid and/or Sodium Hydroxide for preparation. It may be
sensible to use some of the additional etch tank baths for processing
- they're not essential for PCB work and provide good control of the
> Incidentally we have a big 5l container of conc HCl in the metal cupboard.
Oh, is that where it went ? I was looking for that !
Maybe keep it in a different cupboard from the acids ?
From the rest of that article it does indeed sound both useful and
I think that Potassium ferricyanide should not be kept at the
By all means if there is any member can use it privately then that is
I would urge extreme caution in bringing most of it to the space, we
occasionally sail a little close to the wind in respect of H+S generally
but without proper arrangements for storage, use and disposal this lot
could create a serious hazard and further is likely to drop us right in it
with the authorities.
You say you have no good reason to give for having all this stuff... I
would say that this is also true for the space.
" * Unmarked container of white powder, possibly cocaine or reagent grade
NaHCO3, 2kg " ???? Wot`s that all about?
On Sun, 03 Jul 2011 20:05:47 +0100, Alec Wright <ale...@member.fsf.org>
> Hai guise, I have a lot of chemicals knocking around at home, most of
> them are unwanted. Let me know if you want any or think any could beois
> I was wondering what glassware was on offer? Any that's suitable for
> adoption by the biohacking group?
I think the glassware is just standard borosilicate conical flasks and
beakers. I also have a side-arm flask, which may be of use.
On 5 July 2011 19:52, Sam Kelly <s...@eithin.co.uk> wrote:
> We don't have safe storage for the n-heptane, the benzyl
> alcohol, or that quantity of glacial acetic acid - fumes could
> potentially escape and either gas someone or build up in a
> confined space and explode.
> Given that this list includes 2.5 other explosive recipes, I'd
> be wary of keeping most of the rest in the space without a
> locked cupboard with proper safety labelling. Iff we can do
> that, it would be fantastic to have the nitric & sulphuric
> acids, the NaOH, the urea, the potassium ferricyanide, and
> about 500ml of glacial acetic acid; if we can't, I don't think
> we ought to accept anything except the phenolphthalein.
> Sam Kelly (MChem)
To be honest, I'd say that's probably wise - I wasn't really intending
for most of these to be kept in the space (as you say, health and
safety). Members are welcome to take them off me though.
The ferricyanide's probably one of the least dangerous of the chemicals
on the list. Nonetheless, I agree that some of them could be difficult
to store/dispose of.
> I'd prefer we don't take the strong acids. If people have a good use
> for use them then
> I think they should only be brought to the hackspace if arrangements
> are already in place
> for secure storage with designated keyholders, the MSDS and risk
> paperwork is done, it's clear that it's not a problem for the
> insurance and we have
> anything that might be needed like spill kits, eyewash etc in place.
> Some risks arn't obvious eg formic acid decomposes to
> carbon monoxide so if someone puts some in a sealed container
> it might go pop or fizz over when opened months later.
> It would be fun to do some chemistry at the space but most
> of us should start off with a kid level chemistry set.
> The Phenolphthalein (an acid/alkaline indicator) could be handy
> for some basic chemistry experiments.
Just dont wipe up nitric acid spills with paper towls :)
I think this thread has somewhat degenerated into the Daily Mail
scenario of people invoking the mythical "health and safety" without
understanding the relevant rules. This is one of my pet hates.
Hackspace is as much about science as anything else, and I believe
that H&S shouldn't unnecessarily get in the way of teaching people new
things, and good science. Chemistry is fun, and properly using these
chemicals is no more dangerous than operating the lathe.
We have a lockable, ventilated metal cabinet which is ideal for
storing chemicals in. I am more than happy to set up a proper COSHH
risk assessment system (something I have had the dubious pleasure of
doing before), and I will keep the keys.
Obviously we don't want the full quantity of a lot of these
substances, but I think the majority of them are good things to keep
Agreed, most strongly.
FWIW, my local corner shop has (at least) concentrated acids,
flammable alkanes and NaOH granules on the shelf among the other
useful household maintenance supplies. Such things as fertilisers are
common chemicals (precisely because they are useful as fertilisers)
and usually stored in bulk in sheds and barns. They're not going to
spontaneously do anything terrifying any more than a machine tool or
piece of electronics is, and require much the same fairly elementary
attention to safety that we all apply more or less without thought on
a daily basis. Thanks, above all, for offering to jump through the
necessary hoops to placate the insurers.
For explosives it's basically nitric acid, or large amounts (tonnes)
of nitrates. Nitric acid is really nasty; we probably shouldn't store
that. I can't see a problem with anything else though, apart from not
having the space for it.
It's worth noting that making small amounts (up to 100g) of explosives
is not illegal as long as it is for demonstration or experimentation,
and you can make more for theatrical purposes:
It's only really nasty inasmuch as it nitrates things (cellulose is
the typical inadvertent one) into explosive substances, which may take
those ignorant of that property by surprise*.
Otherwise it just sits in its (marked, dark glass) bottle quite
quietly like any other lab reagent. It's certainly nothing like as
nasty as hydrofluoric acid (used for etching glass / silicon) and if
memory serves, the burns aren't as nasty as those from similarly
*wipe up spill, rag now partially nitrated and rather inflammable -
though unlikely to be violently explosive unless confined.
This may be ignorance, but does this mean that the average potato farmer has most of what they need to make significant quantities of explosives?
typed on my phone expect typos...
Yes. In fact they have _everything_ they need to make vast quantities
of explosives*, albeit probably not to get them to detonate reliably -
most of the larger bombs in Northern Ireland and Afghanistan are
pretty much along these lines. We're OK in London until such time as
the NFU spawns a militant wing though.
Ammonium Nitrate + fuel oil (diesel) = ANFO = PIRA`s favourite explosive
for "spectaculars" (Baltic Exchange, South Quay, Bishopsgate etc.)
There is a bit more to it than just that (it needs a primer) but ANFO is
the bulk charge that makes the big bang.
And there should be enough keywords in that lot to have most "Echelon"
type systems flashing lights and ringing bells :-)
On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 18:58:21 +0100, danny staple <da...@orionrobots.co.uk>
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
The claim that bombs can easily be made with household ingredients
frequently comes up and I'm pretty sure it is bullshit. The list is
always flour or sugar or diesel or whatever "combined with other
easily available things which we won't mention". But the other part is
the oxidiser, and they aren't exactly household ingredients.
Also flour doesn't need to be combined with anything to make a "big
boom when aerosoled"!
On Wed, 06 Jul 2011 20:03:41 +0100, Gavan Fantom <ga...@coolfactor.org>
> On 06/07/2011 19:21, cepm...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> I'd be surprised if Hackspace wasn't monitored already, given its nature.
I'd be surprised if Hackspace wasn't monitored already, given its
nature. That's not to say we're malicious, but we're a concentration of
the sorts of people who would have the skills to make stuff actually
happen should we decide to turn evil. Oh, yes, and organised as a kind
Gillette - the best a man can forget
Ah - this is a bit different from what was starting to fit in my mind. I was thinking that something between the nitrates in the fertiliser and the starchy potatoes with plenty of cellulose. I never quite understood chemistry like I do computing.
Director, ODM Solutions Ltd
Ah, yes. The exploding-bridgetuber design.
Also flour doesn't need to be combined with anything to make a "big
boom when aerosoled"!
I wouldn't count nitrates as common household items. Well, perhaps for
> On 7 July 2011 10:12, Dave Ingram <da...@dmi.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 07/06/11 20:22, cepm...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> Almost certainly, fortunately the monitors are usually too busy with
>>> real threats to waste much time on us! (Hi guys, you`r doing a fine
>> Which reminds me of http://xkcd.com/525/
>> I might have to start doing that in the 'space.
On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 10:26:57 +0100, Philippe Bradley