Notification of a Second Formal Warning for Stefan Sabo

[Samb1]

Dear Members,

The  board of trustees regret to inform you that Stefan Sabo has been issued with a second formal warning for repeatedly sleeping in the Hackspace despite having previously received a formal warning for this behaviour and having been requested not to do so several times by members and trustees.

This 2nd formal warning is in accordance with our grievance procedure:

https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Grievance_Procedure

https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Grievance_Procedure/Warnings_Issued

Yours Sincerely,

Samantha Thompson

on behalf of

The London Hackspace Board of Trustees

[Stefan Sabo]

I regret to agree. After yesterday I misjudged my own possibilities. And yes, despite as I make some changes in the past and was aware about this, after received first formal warning at January. I assumed as I will able manage last night, my mistake.

We are all only humans, not robots and I unfortunately overestimated my own possibilities in this case.

Sorry for this, even I asleep for really short time, it is still violation of rule #6.

I will do my best, to do not repeat this and prevent further actions.

Stefan

Dne neděle 13. března 2016 11:38:36 UTC Samb1 napsal(a):

[Patrick Dent]

Unlike Margarita, who seemed to be setting up at the Hackspace with the intention of spending the night, Stefan seemed to nod off involuntarily. Whereas he may have done this maybe twice, Margarita was doing it on almost every occasion she visited the space.

A lot of this seems to come down to member discretion - he was quite tired when he arrived and as with other members who have accidentally dozed off a bit, I tend to leave them for maybe half an hour then give 'em a nudge to get going.

I'll bet a lot of other members simply look across from their tables and say 'sleeping in the space. oh well, gotta be a diligent citizen and complain as though they'd brought a sleeping bag'.

Yes, there is a rule against sleeping in the space; but it was my understanding that it was primarily to stop people treating the space like home, rather than to punish those who might have underestimated their capacity to work through their fatigue.

[Samb1]

The reasoning is that it's become a regular pattern and definitely more than a few times since the first warning was issued.

[Patrick Dent]

Maybe so. Regretfully, I can't claim to have been into the 'Space that often recently.

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[Graham Perdeaux]

The reason there's no difference in treatment between '5 minutes' and spending the night is because there's no exemption in our licence/class of use for '5 minutes'.

As with all lines, they have to be drawn somewhere, in this case it's 'no sleeping'. Obviously it seems unfair if that person has dropped off momentarily and just happens to be caught, but - that's why there's a 'three strikes and you're out' system and not an instant ban.

[Peter "Sci" Turpin]

The wiki contains a summarised history explaining why this is a hard rule.
https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Sleeping_in_Hackspace (see
"The Story")

[Stefan Sabo]

@kantpredict thanks, but any this isn't necessarily. In simply break also my own rule "don't go to Hackspace after shiuft at work" within last fbieleve,, and out simply goes straight forward to break rule #6

Nobody can say and also nobody can proof as it was continuous behaviour through last 2 months. Simply because wasn't.

This is not excuse, this is fact, same as I fault indeed. And nothing can changed on it, as there are more often sleeping (but still occasionally) people at space. Simply I don't hidden self, because I don't want make it.

I will be now under big pressure to not allow anybody give me ban, because I fault again. It emvolve into change my usage of Space within next months. It is necessarily, perhaps I simply don't like atmosphere of overcrowded and rush daylight time there,I must change part of my visits into day, and reduce noght stay. Simply

Please do not try open discussion "more then someone else".

Opposite few months ago I now understand. It does mean,as I agree with this second warming, but regret to must accept it,perhaps agree afterwards.

NOBODY,I believe, can compare me with persistent sleepers like person who you mentioned. I bieleve, that is such big difference at people views to my and her case.
Today night around 3AM there was incident, when I show Radio Shack to another member, which noticed distraction sounds within yard. I knows afterward only version of her,which sound as she was organise some things on her project and he comes and try blame her as she sleeping there or bidding self there. Afterward she come back into space simply to sleep. And continue up to some (probably) non member come visit her at late morning time.

However, any often user of space,specially night owls will be always under review and I under bigger focus then other people. We are simply unliked at all at London Hackspace, that's all.
I make it more simply due my personal fault in this case and when you count this, there isn't space to another action from trustees for now. There is only one rule #6 and at actual statue they don't have any chanmce put into considerations differences between
Level of accusing of it.

Perhaps, I will more focused now on my projects, but also on my physical ability to manage all without give anybodyt chance say,as I again failed.

If will be there so much people at space,I have always opportunity goes to Radio Shack and work there, together with listening radio communication on Yeasu. One of my ongoing project is hardly related with HAM radio hobby and gives me opportunity to do this. Of course, not at nights,because I can imagine what coming then... "he gores to guide self there and ..."

[Graham Perdeaux]

Interestingly, that page contains stories of people's thoughts and feelings on the subject and tells the winding tale of why the rule was created -  but has no mention of the actual reason forbidding sleeping in the space.

Our being allowed to operate out of a building with a specified class of use, i.e. commercial, is based on the premise that we abide by those rules.

There are many very good reasons why sleeping in commercial premises is not allowed, and on top of which the local authorities tend to dislike not being paid their pound of flesh.

[JJ]

Can you point us to the actual legislation on that please because people crash in their office on occasion (generally from excess of either work or pleasure) and I've never heard it suggested that this will fall foul of the local authority.  By that reckoning office parties would be illegal because an office isn't a place of entertainment and office cake sales because they're not shops or restaurants.

[Adrian Godwin]

The lease conditions are not the 'actual' reason, though. It was initially OK, and a number of people (including me) slept there occasionally. The lease conditions are an additional and compelling argument and should not be ignored, but the first objections were as the story explained : enough people started doing it at one time that the space became smelly and objectionable. You could arrive and find a few people there, and some would have the cheek to complain if you made a noise.

Of course, not all were smelly or overindulgent - but a few gave the rest a bad name and forced an absolute ban. Because how else would you say whether someone could sleep or not ?

I think the lease arguments came out as the complaints intensified and attitudes hardened, but the landlords have never checked and nor are they likely to unless we start advertising a hotel.

The important agument is that it's not fair to the other members, whose payments allow the space to exist.

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[Stefan Sabo]

@JJ

This is obvious fairy tale about some legislative regulation about it from some people when come into discussion theme "Sleeping at Hackspace"

In the fact,only one existing regulation on this is pur rule #6 which is considerate hardly related to past incidents years ago and some nuts now.

There is only one view for now, such coming into grievance procedure, also at my own. Not allowed, any, such little incident (nap) is eventually problem. At actual statue it is right, Trustees haven't chance react another way. Their are under pressure of part of membership, which awaiting hard clearance of this at any case. Sam!e people simply don't like around 15 people who regularly using space at nights...

That's all

[Stefan Sabo]

@Adrian

There will be always some people which make nicely £5 monthly hotel ...
One of first thing what she asked me today after getbman was, how its doping at Wembley's Hackspace... My expklanatioon was:

- conditions around membership fees same, £5 respectively £20 if you are not low incomers or student.
- sleeping not allowed
- no space for your project
- people from there read our mailing list...

Or you thing, as she will change? Trailer was her rescue project, no more...

And yes, important point is,as without any regulation HS will coke into B&B facility. Question is, if this is only one way. I don't tjhink so,but it nothing changing on my needs tonaccept actual statue and not fail again.

[Mr Ed]

On Sunday, 13 March 2016 17:06:42 UTC, Graham Perdeaux wrote:

Interestingly, that page contains stories of people's thoughts and feelings on the subject and tells the winding tale of why the rule was created -  but has no mention of the actual reason forbidding sleeping in the space.

Those thoughts and feelings are why the rule was created. The hackspace is by and for the members and the members ultimately get to choose the rules. Members on average don't like people sleeping in the space because some people always go overboard.

-Ed

 

[Scooby]

Hi Stefan, i am genuinely sorry to learn that you have received your second and final warning today, and am deeply sadden by this, as you know i have just recently met and spoken to you in the flesh i a can personally vouch on your behalf, you are what i would call a true Hackspacer, in the sense that you are active, honest, kind, helpful, and a real nice cool outgoing and very social and friendly person, and you really do touch me when i see you eash time and it could be a sad day for me to see you ever banned, you arrive by night unfortunately due to your day work commitments and you genuinely get down and do your thing and hack on you favorite desk as you always do, you down side is that you dose off even while your engaging in a full on conservation and i can only blame that down to maybe a medical condition that you may not know that you have, you do not arrive at the space to live here nor do you depend on it for warmth unlike the female that was mentioned above, i plea and pray for the powers that be to reconsider the decision they made today and/or amend the rule 6 and distinguish this from genuine hackers falling into a nap whilst in the company of friends who have no objection with this then those that deliberately flout and chose to live here.

Much love Scooby.   

[Graham Perdeaux]

'Can you point us to the actual legislation on that please...'

The actual offence would be committed under the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, because a building is being used for a different class of use other than the one applied for and granted (see Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987, as amended), and the local authority would have the right to issue an enforcement notice under section 172 of that act. The cost of issuing the enforcement notice alone, without any costs incurred by the local authority or their appointed body to chase it up, or confirm activity had ceased, would be hundreds or thousands of pounds, for which the Hackspace would be liable.

'By that reckoning office parties would be illegal because an office isn't a place of entertainment and office cake sales because they're not shops or restaurants.'

No, it wouldn't. Please again see Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987, as amended. The sale would not be to the public therefore a change to A1 use would not need to be applied for and granted.

Also, the use of an office for a private party would not be seen as regular or principal use and would not need any action.

So you can see, there are built in to the regulations to allow for such uses. Sleeping, on the other hand, is not one of those. Not by a long chalk -

The next concern would be with the Housing Act 2004. It is highly unlikely any unadapted commercial premises would comply fully with the Health and Safety aspects required to stay inside the law.

'The lease conditions are not the 'actual' reason, though. It was initially OK, and a number of people (including me) slept there occasionally.'

It was never OK, it was just that there was no Hackspace Rule saying it wasn't OK, therefore people with disregard for the law, the other people using the space (who would lose out if the Hackspace were to become no more, or fined a large chunk of money due to the irresponsible actions of others) and the spirit of community, decided it was acceptable.

'...the landlords have never checked and nor are they likely to unless we start advertising a hotel.'

I doubt they would check. Does this mean we should do as we please? No. Things like this normally get exposed by complete accident. Say a theft occured. Police were called. During a search of the building someone was sleeping in the quiet room. Police made a report to LA and things escalated.

I doubt this will happen. Does this mean we should do as we please? No!

'This is obvious fairy tale about some legislative regulation about it from some people when come into discussion theme "Sleeping at Hackspace"

Stefan, it's very far away from being a fairy tale. There are regulations in the wider world than the hackspace.

'...people simply don't like around 15 people who regularly using space at nights... '

Have you considered, that the reason there seems to be a group of people who dislike the fact that there are people using the space at night, may be because this is not normal? Though there is no rule or reason in life that sleeping at night is the norm, it would seem that people who are using the Hackspace at night are not sleeping enough in the daytime to compensate and are therefore falling asleep at night, whilst at Hackspace.

Stefan Sabo

17:24 (3 hours ago)

Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Notification of a Second Formal Warning for Stefan Sabo

Stefan Sabo

17:36 (2 hours ago)

Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Notification of a Second Formal Warning for Stefan Sabo

Adrian Godwin

17:22 (3 hours ago)

Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Notification of a Second Formal Warning for Stefan Sabo

The lease conditions are not the 'actual' reason, though. It was initially OK, and a number of people (including me) slept there occasionally. The lease conditions are an additional and compelling argument and should not be ignored, but the first objections were as the story explained : enough people started doing it at one time that the space became smelly and objectionable. You could arrive and find a few people there, and some would have the cheek to complain if you made a noise.

Of course, not all were smelly or overindulgent - but a few gave the rest a bad name and forced an absolute ban. Because how else would you say whether someone could sleep or not ?

I think the lease arguments came out as the complaints intensified and attitudes hardened, but the landlords have never checked and nor are they likely to unless we start advertising a hotel.

The important agument is that it's not fair to the other members, whose payments allow the space to exist.

On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 5:06 PM, 'Graham Perdeaux' via London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Interestingly, that page contains stories of people's thoughts and feelings on the subject and tells the winding tale of why the rule was created -  but has no mention of the actual reason forbidding sleeping in the space.

Our being allowed to operate out of a building with a specified class of use, i.e. commercial, is based on the premise that we abide by those rules.

There are many very good reasons why sleeping in commercial premises is not allowed, and on top of which the local authorities tend to dislike not being paid their pound of flesh.

On 13 Mar 2016 4:49 p.m., "Peter "Sci" Turpin" <s...@sci-fi-fox.com> wrote:

The wiki contains a summarised history explaining why this is a hard rule.
https://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Sleeping_in_Hackspace (see "The Story")


On 13/03/2016 15:05, 'Graham Perdeaux' via London Hackspace wrote:

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Stefan Sabo

17:02 (3 hours ago)

Re: [london-hack-space] Re: Notification of a Second Formal Warning for Stefan Sabo

[Tim Reynolds]

Sleeping is sleeping is sleeping and is not allowed. Why are you diagnosing a medical condition? 

On 13 Mar 2016, at 21:05, Scooby <mk1ma...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Stefan, i am genuinely sorry to learn that you have received your second and final warning today, and am deeply sadden by this, as you know i have just recently met and spoken to you in the flesh i a can personally vouch on your behalf, you are what i would call a true Hackspacer, in the sense that you are active, honest, kind, helpful, and a real nice cool outgoing and very social and friendly person, and you really do touch me when i see you eash time and it could be a sad day for me to see you ever banned, you arrive by night unfortunately due to your day work commitments and you genuinely get down and do your thing and hack on you favorite desk as you always do, you down side is that you dose off even while your engaging in a full on conservation and i can only blame that down to maybe a medical condition that you may not know that you have, you do not arrive at the space to live here nor do you depend on it for warmth unlike the female that was mentioned above, i plea and pray for the powers that be to reconsider the decision they made today and/or amend the rule 6 and distinguish this from genuine hackers falling into a nap whilst in the company of friends who have no objection with this then those that deliberately flout and chose to live here.

Much love Scooby.   

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[Mark Steward]

This is the kind of argument that leads to unjustified bad press about Health and Safety law. Napping at the space does not magically change the building's use class, nobody at Tower Hamlets cares about someone falling asleep at their desk, and we do not have to worry about the Housing Act 2004.

Can we throw this straw man away, please? Napping at the space is banned by consensus, and there's no point inviting people to undermine it by using the wrong justification.

Mark

[Scooby]

Theres a big difference between napping and actively living at the space, here a prime live example below and it's happening right now right under your nose.

 

[Stefan Sabo]

@Scooby (resp. Mil...:

This is public stream and I Personally think as publish photos or videos from CCTV could be not good idea, doesn't matter why. This is private stream and at the past I was asked to delete it, when I allegaly publish it here also.

To all:

I don't want any excuses. I simply break my own rules, when come repeatedly last week after my regular shift at work to Space and misjudgement my own ability to maintain it. It follow at my br at rule #6. It not need any advocate, or support me (how I already receive at email from someone). It should be followed only by me, and only to way to avoid any further action and faults.

About the law:

No, there is not exactly and specific law enforcement about this. Themes mentioned above can't be simply taken into our situation. None of this is problem.

About night owls:

Are you serious, when you blame night work by this arguments? At this logic, and night shift, doesn't matter where and why is sick? There is simply reason, why some people like to be at Hackspace more like at night as per daylight... It's comfort and better ability to concentrate in, not disturbed by crowded space, which Hackspace is per day very often. Less people, more space and for me personally more productive, this is night agains the day.
Comfort is limited while knowledge issue with temperature conditions there.

I need to come more often per daylight, if I find space very crowded, with kindly allowance of HAM shack owls , I will work there. Coming better outside temperature and Shack will not be really cold. It is not possible at nights, simply because Some people,can have objections with it and call it, as I want hide from cameras.

Also, I planned using 50:50 our Hackspace and Wembley, lately reduce Eastern one more. At this time is not this on the table.Firstly I need intr Duce more hard limitation by self, to avoid any future faults. Then we can see

[Graham Perdeaux]

Please, don't try and give an impression of superiority over a point you don't understand. The Housing Management Act applies whether or not the class of use has been changed.

I was asked to explain the legislation. I haven't done that just to be rubbished.

This notion by many that the rules of the hackspace, and the opinion of the consensus, are all that matter, regardless of the law or any external regulation, and therefore are open to interpretation, bending, and choice adoption is not on and needs to stop. It's one of many things that are threatening the continued existance of the space.

If you genuinely think the legal argument I presented undermines the no sleeping rule, rather than reinforces it, well, I really can't understand the confusion there.

Do you know what the phrase 'straw man' means?

[Stefan Sabo]

@graham

Yes, I know what exactly mean "straw man"' phrase and also as it's used more likely when one of sides means as his arguments are more likely better then others...

We can leave aside neverending debate about law and dependence into case of sleeping at space. As i repeatedly mention I do not going into fight for sleeping allowance, because it's simply waste all our time. There is rule #6, which I allegaly break, that's all.

[Stefan Sabo]

And about "night owls"... HackSpace is open and accessible 24/7/365.25... If you mean as come work to HackSpace at night isn't normal, there is also opportunity introduce your voice to reduce open hours to 6-22 or 7-24 and, surprisingly not only regular night users, but also a lot of occasional night incmomers will very quickly punish you for it.

Despite, your opinion is different,...

No, it's absolutely NORMAL come into space for night working. It's not been, it's not be and its not will be less normal as you come per daylight hours.

What is not normal, is come into space with only one objection: sleeping (and living) there, however you will pretend any other activities, perhaps have 1^99999 reasons and explanation how.... Bla bla bla... And what it's absolutely nonsense, as within my incoming into the space (5 months) I seen couple of persistent sleepers there, but nobody (include trustees) don't care. To be fair, mostly Trustees don't have enough revels the info to take action. What is absolutely unacceptable? When banned person sleeping even awaiting ban to be goes into action

[Tim Reynolds]

I've zero issue with people using the space overnight. I've done it
myself more than once. The only issue is the sleeping. If you're going
to the space to work, that is fine - but if you're too tired then just.
go. home.

You say that the trustees don't do anything about sleepers - they can
only do something if they're given information. Have you told them about
the persistent sleepers you're aware of? You said in a previous email
you saw someone go down to the dark room with a sleeping bag - did you
email the trustees about it? They can't do anything if no one tells them.

If you have, fantastic. Thankyou.

[Stefan Sabo]

@Tim

Believe me, was not one time, when she sleeping at space and least of one Trustee was presented and nobody say to her nothing. It's obviously happened when she goes to Quite room. Perhaps, yesterday evening, according to (not really nice) publish screen from CCTV here, and my quick look into system was same.

Apart of me, she doing it on daily basis. And attract attention and upset a lot of people.
My mistake is simply, what I describe above and it follow to my personal fault.

Btw and yes, if you will complain about some things basically, you will be not really liked. And same, I count some "off records" words, as I should stop write to ML or shown problems, when I seen it... Simply, as I should be "3 Monkeys... Nothing seen, nothing heard, nothing told.,,"


Dne pondělí 14. března 2016 1:34:12 UTC Tim Reynolds napsal(a):

[Stefan Sabo]

Even i do not regular user of IRC (I am very rare there online) I noticed, as some people has concern there today shortly after midnight ABOUT ME and my access into Radio Shack...

For clearly understand:

- YES, I have technically access into Radio Shack, and I do not seen nothing wrong on it.

I asked before to join officially ARC M0HSL, and get response, as it is not need to make it formal way and as member of HackSpace London, I can have access into the shack also. Of course according to the regulations of licence (about using equipment). My first HAM  licence is dated into 1996 and I really know regulations about it, and will follow it!

- YES, I can go to the Shack and be there, if I want. I DO NOT USE it this way any time before! If I goes there, my visit was not longer then few minutes. Yes, I can use it for future, with CLEARLY allowance of HAM people at Hack Space. If I will want to do this, I will contact BEFORE several of them, to get ALLOWANCE for it. Yes, I write it as POTENTIAL if Space will be overcrowded, to get space where I can concentrate to my projects. NO, I will not use it. I still can use space within time 5:30 AM to aprox 1PM, when is not crowded and it can be solution as replacement for most nightly time, and allow me work on my projects.

- Following some issues, it is not good idea use Shack out of DayLight time. simply, because some people can have concern, as I use it to hide there and sleep there. It was not happened and it will not be happen at any situation!!! 

- if I use keys for Radio Shack, ALWAYS I take care, as at ANY time, nobody else have access to the code, to the keys, or to the shack unnatended! I do not give access to another person, I am not at position to do it!

Perhaps, I found TODAY and repeat AGAIN (!!!!) key locker with right code on it! I think, this is more risk, then my knowledge of code. And, I think, should be GOOD IDEA TO CHANGE CODE, not because I know it, but simply, because can be compromised by folks, who are not aware about security and handling with it. If I get new code later, will be on HAM people again.

As lot of times ago, there is genuine rumours about my person, which can be solved simply by ask me, by email, by person, or something else. It is really not good feeling, when someone other need to give me know, as part of people have again concerns about me!!

And yes, I am really upset now, and think, will make necessary steps to finish some projects and will terminate my membership by self. Simply, because I am still problem for some people. Probably they will be happy then. Simply and accurate solution. 

p.s.: I put copy of this message also into Radio Shack ML group, to allow people around HAM Radio Schack react to it. I believe, as most of them do not waste time on general forum.

[Adrian Godwin]

Stefan, the only comment on IRC even remotely showing surprise that you had access was from Aden, who likes to wind people up like that. And that didn't imply that you shouldn't have access either.

Feel free to join / leave as you feel appropriate but don't get offended by an irrelevant comment.

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[Stefan Sabo]

@Adrian

thanks for more explanation. I am upset, simply because it is not first time, when I goes into discussion on IRC, relevant, or irrelevant way. There is easy way, ask me, if someone wants know something, or explain, describe something. I simply hate "background" noises, happened behind my back. It always goes into several disinformations and chaos. 

You know very vell, as I am able admit also things, which can be not good for me, but which are true. Like as I asleep. I do not fight as it is not true, because, simply it is true, while I break my own regulations and misjudged my own body power. I do not came with "I bla bla bla bla bla..." Also, I mentioned by self, as I have access into Shack. It can be surprised for some people, but I have. I never abuse it to go there for sleeping, or anything like this! When I am at Space, I trying to be ON CAMERAS.. Simply because it eliminate any rumours and anybody can check it. Of course, sometimes is space full of people and only one place which is free is off the cameras. It can happens.. BTW: If I know, at Radio Shack is also web camera, and at some my ideas what can be done for more using of this space, I personally mentioned, as as part of potentially remote control of heating, can be installed another web camera to increase security of ARC M0HSL and oportunity to see what happens inside. Radio Shack is world into world, and probably run mostly another way then rest of HackSpace, included, as installed camera should be not connected to ZoneMinder, probably? I do not know as it is public somewhere.

Dne pondělí 14. března 2016 9:41:44 UTC Adrian Godwin napsal(a):

[Scooby]

Hi Stefan, i understand the you are deeply troubled by the publication of my very public photo, and i must stress to you too that this was posted due to an offense being committed at that moment in time, and for the use as evidence and not to shame anyone, no person or persons have been named on this photo, nor can anyone's face be identified please do not let this upset you, and for all intense and purposes this could well be my Grandmother taking her early evening nap at her local Bingo.

Best regards Scooby.

[David Dorward]

On 14 Mar 2016, at 10:50, Scooby wrote:

i understand the you are deeply troubled by the
publication of my very public photo

It wasn't very public before you made it so.

, and i must stress to you too that this was posted due
to an offense being committed at that moment in time,

So send it to the trustees, not the public.

Guides/Photography and Filming is probably relevant here: "respect their wishes for privacy".

[David Murphy]

The correct term would be "paper tiger".

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[Scooby]

Yes it is very public and for all eyes to see regardless, did also send it to the Trustees as that was on the top of the list of things i had to do, so take a read of the reply i received if thats what your seeking:

 Hi Scooby,

While the CCTV can be useful for finding things that we may need to investigate further it isn't useful as concrete proof of sleeping in these cases as this angle shows none of the person face so there are alternative reasons why this may be the case. Though it can be helpful for reporting new cases, first hand accounts from people seeing someone sleeping first hand (or first eye'd) is more useful.

[David Dorward]

On 14 Mar 2016, at 19:13, Scooby wrote:

> Yes it is very public and for all eyes to see regardless

Incorrect. Access to the webcam feeds is limited to hackspace members.
It is not public.

> read of the reply i received if thats what your seeking:

When I suggested you should respect people's privacy, I was not saying
that you should make public email correspondence between you and another
party without their permission. (In this particular case, given the
content, I don't think it really matters, but I can't see what I said
that led you to believe I wanted to know what the trustees told you).


--
David Dorward
http://dorward.co.uk/

[Stefan Sabo]

@Scooby (D...):

As i wrotre before,i follow only request from past,when I allegally publish photo from CCTV on ML and was requested to delete it,simoky because CCTV isn't public, but limited for members (web stream, very limited and delayed,plus limited quality) at member'szoneamd for trustees amd maintaners,with full access to Zone Minder,where only possible limitation is technical quality of each camera (despite to cameras 3 & 5 (main room and workshop) which have good quality,included night vision, other cameras are pretty old and have different issues).

David: agreed

[Scooby]

I wouldn't class having access to the Hackspace webcam as anywhere near being private as any member of the public is most welcome to join up regardless of conditions or questions and pay the small fee to enjoy viewing what is to be believed a very private webcam.

Thanks all Scooby.

[Paddy Duncan]

Irrelevant of how anyone considers it, members only means members only.
Posting to 2000 non members is not on.
Paddy

On 15 March 2016 8:57:54 pm Scooby <mk1ma...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't class having access to the Hackspace webcam as anywhere near being private as any member of the public is most welcome to join up regardless of conditions or questions and pay the small fee to enjoy viewing what is to be believed a very private webcam.

Thanks all Scooby.

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