Acoustic tiles anywhere in the space? +proposal for their use

[Cat Catt]

Are they acoustic tiles available somewhere stored in the space?

Proposal:  if yes.

Would the space and its members approved to use those for the 'Quiet room'?

While the aim would be to sound proof this room so to create an adequate space to be used by a new group: weekly acoustic jamming session - 3h per week.

(day and time not determined as it is a project under study and construction)

Generally the 'Quiet room' would benefit from a quieter environment too.

Alternatively: any suggestion in regards to another location where this weekly 3hr acoustic session could take place would be very welcome.

The 'quiet room' seems good in this present has it has a perfect size, so that is why we are thinking 'quiet room' ...... but...it could be anywhere...

Would be fun if HS gave birth to a band.   The band could contribute to events in some future which is a positive asset.

Looking forward to read members' opinions and suggestions.

[Charles Yarnold]

There were a small number left that were binned when moving to the new space. A small number made it into the caravan.

Sol

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[JJ]

Forgive me as I'm a relative newbie but is this suggesting that there would be periods when the quiet room is not available as a quiet room?  Does this set a precedent because, for instance, the radio club have considered but avoided suggesting the quiet room for morse code assessments.

Also, please be aware that acoustic treatment is way more complicated than just putting up acoustic tiles.  They kill reflections and are useful in a practice studio and essential for broadcast.  But they do virtually nothing to keep noise in or out.  To do that involves isolating the structure of the inside of the room from the fabric of the building around it.

Lining the quiet room with acoustic tiles will do little to keep external noise out but could have the unexpected side effect of making it psychologically uncomfortable to work in because of the absence of natural background noise.

[chrisbob12]

AFAIK acoustic tiles won't sound proof the place where they're stuck up: they are supposed to control reverberation, by making the space less resonant. For sound proofing, look for something more like thick dry lining (and no Windows)

[Billy]

Yes! :D

It won't cut out the bass rumble from the Hackney Road in rush hour... :))

It will cut out most of the top end of the audio spectrum, but that's not where the problems are coming from.

If you look at the thickness and the materials used to make the existing wall, It provides no structural support and it's almost exactly the same as the drywall that we installed when we first moved in.

Look at the wall that the craft shelves back onto, and see how it sits in relation to the windows. It was simple to install, so it'll be simple to remove.The wall with the window facing the fire stairs, has a window made out of a sheet of perspex... :))

It'll take time to build it, and it'll have an impact on how the rest of the space is used, so making those sort of alterations to the place is something that everyone will have to agree on.

Acoustic panelling isn't that hard to build.. Internal sprung floors, with sound baffles, is something that we can make with the tools that we've got in the basement. Use standard materials, and use standard designs, and it's simple to get them compliant with broadcast quality sound.

Sheets of nicely-prepped and varnished plywood, with layers of industrial-garade wool. with a heavy-duty canvas to contain the fibres and add an extra flavour to the sound quality, is how this was done in the past..

However, installing them to get them useful for the next three years, AND making them removable enough to be able to take them with us when we leave, wil require a little more forward planning..

We were able to think about building the drywall; as we had a five-year tenancy. We could afford to build things with five years in mind.

At the moment we can only think about installing stuff with three years in mind.

Acoustic tiles aren't a very effective solution, sure, they'll do as an easily-installed, and easily-removed stop-gap, but they're only really suitable for live recording, or temporary installations, Any longer than 2-4 weeks, and you'll get a more effective return on your energy from looking at low-end professional kit.

At one time, they were what we had available. If they were used in the caravan, then they were worth it.

They were originally free in the first place, so it cost us nothing but raw-material storage-space, and they were in the general stock for members to use.

Rather than arguing over the short-term, we should plan for the longer-term. We started out looking for another building, six months after we opened the new workshop in Cremer St. We've got another three years to find a place.

Add in, "space to build a recording studio", to the list of nice-to-have's.

Whether or not, we find a place that's suitable, having other options means that we'll have more leverage when we come to re-negotiate with the landlord in the next three years.

[Tim Reynolds]

At this point I think the quiet room isn't convertible to any kind of deadened space without completely removing it's other uses. It's a small space that would only be made smaller. We've got the network cab in there, windows, etc

If we were going to do this we should have done it when we moved in. A collapsible booth we can erect in either the main room or the classroom is a more realistic goal IMO. 

http://www.acousticbooth-studiobox.com/

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[Billy]

Good idea for the live recording.

Still won't make the quiet room quieter.

What about fitting acoustic panels to the outer walls of the quiet room, on the main room side?

It wouldn't be an instant solution, but make them removable, and we'll be able to re-use them.

[Peter H. Meadows]

On 31 January 2015 at 01:48, Tim Reynolds <t...@christwithfries.net> wrote:
> At this point I think the quiet room isn't convertible to any kind of
> deadened space without completely removing it's other uses. It's a small
> space that would only be made smaller. We've got the network cab in there,
> windows, etc

How will sound insulating the quiet room remove any of it's other uses?

[Lex Robinson]

This seems like a somewhat more pressing question than the specifics of audio isolation insulation installation.

I too thought the point of the Quiet Room was that people were noisy on the outside and not on the inside, rather than the other way around.

On Fri Jan 30 2015 at 23:38:01 JJ <jj.so...@gmail.com> wrote:

Forgive me as I'm a relative newbie but is this suggesting that there would be periods when the quiet room is not available as a quiet room?  Does this set a precedent because, for instance, the radio club have considered but avoided suggesting the quiet room for morse code assessments.

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[Peter H. Meadows]

On 31 January 2015 at 10:43, Lex Robinson <mwa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This seems like a somewhat more pressing question than the specifics of
> audio isolation insulation installation.
> I too thought the point of the Quiet Room was that people were noisy on the
> outside and not on the inside, rather than the other way around.
>

I think the quiet room should have padding on the outside of all its walls.

http://hitchhikers.wikia.com/wiki/Wonko_the_Sane

[Adrian Godwin]

I can't see any point in building extensive facilities for practise / recording etc.

The music hackspace started out for this reason, and quickly moved meetings to more suitable spaces. A move back to LHS was considered but even at Hackney Rd, there wasn't enough space to available to do it properly. It has continued to grow and now has its own space just down the road, though this is really an office / workship rather than an acoustically suitable place.

However, the music hackspace is nearby, has a large group of interested members, remains closely associated with LHS and is very active. While LHS is very suitable for the larger acoustic instrument hacking and fine for individual practice sessions (in the lift !), if a better equipped space is needed it makes far more sense to do it under their banner.

[Tim Reynolds]

But fitting acoustic panels to the quiet room won't make it quiet either, and neither will fitting panels on the outside of it. 

My point was that it would be easier to build a quiet enclosure than it would be to quieten the existing room. 

[Tim Reynolds]

Because to insulate it properly (fitting foam to the walls doesn't insulate it, if just deadens sound made inside the quiet room) would mean halving the usable space in the room.

[tek...@hotmail.com]

Whether the room was usable as a music space depended upon what you want to do in it. As a rehearsal room the biggest issue would be how much spillage there is into the rest of Hackspace rather than the acoustic quality of the room. No matter how good you are, rehearsing the same few songs for 3 hours would become tiresome to most.
As has been mentioned by others "acoustic" tiles wont make any difference to sound leakage or ingress.There's no substitute for mass when it comes to isolation.

For recording, software noise reduction algorithms these days are so powerful that you could place your mic on Hackney Rd, and make it sound as though you were in a concert hall. Pretty much anything works as long as you stick to close mic. techniques.

A more suitable rehearsal space would be somewhere downstairs, as long as none of the band is allergic to wood dust.

I'd recently discussed with Philip Roy adapting the quiet room for occasional acoustic transducer tests but he correctly pointed out that there was not enough interest in the subject within hackspace to justify the effort.

If there's enough interest in a music space, then why not raise funds for another "radio cabin", and customise it for rehearsal/recording?

Hywel

[Donal Sweeney]

Hi there,

There are relatively cost effective solutions that could be used to make that space quieter. I've never been inside it, but sealing the doorway and ventilating the room into the yard would be my recommendation. Depending on how much money there is to throw at it you could also rip the inner plasterboard off the studs and install res bars and new massive boards. That would do something, without reducing the space by too much.. But this kind of thing is pretty limited with the space available. It depends on how much much noise you're trying to isolate in either direction.

[Cat Catt]

not to sure where to go from there...

acoustic tiles were mentioned because it was raised by one as a suggestion.

it is a fact that sound proving a space for just 3hrs per week of acoustic music/playing does not seem to be particularly fundamental.  Plus who know how long this project will last if it takes off.  So wisely one should think testing first and then considering alterations should it ever be needed due to demand.

perhaps we could ask for a one month trial period, (possibly up to 6 weeks) and then review the location (wherever we might be given permission to practice) as well as reviewing the feedbacks (sounds disturbances etc) from members that might have been around while playing during those 3 hours/wk.

best time for practice seems to be 'evening' which is often a time when there are generally less members around.

....

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