does the space want a free staubli robot arm?

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Chris Jack

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May 30, 2013, 4:24:42 AM5/30/13
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Just putting an initial feeler out there whilst I wait for the cogs of academia to slowly turn (as such this is not a cast iron offer yet btw)....

My dept at Queen Mary uni is "getting rid" of a Staubli robot arm (not sure what model but it's an older one and its big) plus pc tower controller + software -- on account of them not having the cable! The cable does cost hundreds of pounds but the guys in the electronics lab reckon with enough patience you could probably custom one yourself.

Either way, it's going spare and so I have eagerly pointed out to them that the hackspace may just want such a thing.

So how's about it? Is there room? Are these silly questions ;)

2 conditions:
- it needs picking up at some point I don't know when yet, in a van and preferably with a few bodies present as it's damn heavy.
- someone representative of the space (any member I guess) will need to sign over responsibility for it on a recycling/ethical reuse kind of angle. Nothing major, just h&s type thing.

Cheers,
Chris Jack

chrisbob12

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May 30, 2013, 4:32:02 AM5/30/13
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How does one programme it?

Tim Reynolds

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May 30, 2013, 4:37:39 AM5/30/13
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While I can't help in picking it up, I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes, it's something we'd be interested in. (Probably)
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Chris Jack

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May 30, 2013, 4:43:20 AM5/30/13
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I'm not too sure about how to programme it other than that the hardware setup incorporates a dedicated pc tower controller unit and a monitor (any).

chrisbob12

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May 30, 2013, 5:10:12 AM5/30/13
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I think the programming is key; Stäubli provide proprietary software, so if it comes with that we'd be well placed to go. Depends if we'd want to use it as a tool, or expected to hack it.

My imagination falls a little short on how we'd use it: great for repeatable precision, or dangerous materials and environments. Perhaps it could be adapted to be used as a Waldo-style robot.

Having said that, it could be pretty awesome: I was all shiny eyes at the offer :D

Tom Sands

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May 30, 2013, 5:37:06 AM5/30/13
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Do you have any info on the size of it? While this would be amazingly awesome, it's a little impractical if we can't put it anywhere.
(Automatic welding arm anyone?)

chrisbob12

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May 30, 2013, 6:04:38 AM5/30/13
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Actually, the size could be a deal breaker; some of these things needed to be caged off, to stop passers by bloodying the equipment.

Model number would help.

mentar

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May 30, 2013, 6:50:08 AM5/30/13
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Just to sum up my reply on IRC with regards to this:

Holy shit, hell yes.

This is in a whole different league to our UMI rtx arm, and yes it is
dangerous, but we have the space now don't we and a demo of something
basic on that arm on tuesdays definitely adds to the cool factor for the
space.
It can be used for experimenting with 3d printing, sculpting, welding,
sorting so is very universal
I'm up for taking ownership and looking into replacing the cable, worst
comes to worst I'll help make a new one, we are a HACKspace afterall
aren't we

(a rather excited) Mentar
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AlisonW

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May 30, 2013, 8:01:13 AM5/30/13
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Any details on the cable required?



-- Sent from my HP TouchPad. Yes, really!

Tim Reynolds

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May 30, 2013, 8:04:42 AM5/30/13
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This was the response I was waiting for ;)

Jonty Wareing

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May 30, 2013, 8:11:27 AM5/30/13
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To be clear:

I have always wanted a proper robot arm in the space, but depending
on the size we may not be able to take this. We need a model number
or dimensions ASAP to make a call on this.

--jonty

invent_or

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May 30, 2013, 8:35:18 AM5/30/13
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If it is liftable by a few people, then it's not going to be that big. "Proper" ones are forklift truck heavy.

Put the GLaDOS head on a near-invisible string hanging from the end of the arm, Wi-Fi both, and make them interact with people.
N

Chris Jack

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May 30, 2013, 8:57:14 AM5/30/13
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Yep. Fair enough. Just trying to get the specifics for you...

cepm...@yahoo.co.uk

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May 30, 2013, 10:17:25 AM5/30/13
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If we get this can we get rid of the existing one? It has been with us for
a long time and no significant progress towards usefulness to the space as
a whole. I am all for stuff like this if it brings some benefit to the
space in terms of being a "showcase item" or performing some more useful
function but if it just sits about being fiddled with now and again then
it really needs to go.

Phil

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Metz

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May 30, 2013, 10:34:09 AM5/30/13
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The existing one is actively being worked on by Mentar.


On Thursday, 30 May 2013 09:24:42 UTC+1, Chris Jack wrote:

Monty

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May 30, 2013, 10:38:29 AM5/30/13
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mentar

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May 30, 2013, 10:38:54 AM5/30/13
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Phil, this is simply not true. Most of the work being done on it is
documented at http://hack.rs/p/UMI_RTX_Robot_arm
It's now part of the http://hack.rs/p/HSRDP project that 4 other people
have shown interest in, including prospective members from the "Not Just
Arduino" group.
If people weren't interested in it I'd gladly have taken it off and
worked on it at home, but this isn't the case. I admit the progress is
slow, but that's because a lot of my hackspace time over the last few
months has been taken up by the move so I didn't get to work on it as
much as I wanted.

Also if we go down this route then we should get rid of most of the
equipment at the space including the 2 non-working lathes, which
incidentally have been at the space and unusable long before the arm
arrived :|

Mentar

On 30/05/13 15:17, cepm...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> If we get this can we get rid of the existing one? It has been with us
> for a long time and no significant progress towards usefulness to the
> space as a whole. I am all for stuff like this if it brings some
> benefit to the space in terms of being a "showcase item" or performing
> some more useful function but if it just sits about being fiddled with
> now and again then it really needs to go.
>
> Phil
>


--

mentar

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May 30, 2013, 10:48:51 AM5/30/13
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Yes please do.

Provided it's appropriate for the space I can sign off for it (trustees
permitting), I don't have transport but I'll look into arranging but
will need to know the rough dates.

Mentar

On 30/05/13 13:57, Chris Jack wrote:
> Yep. Fair enough. Just trying to get the specifics for you...
>


Tim Reynolds

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May 30, 2013, 10:59:51 AM5/30/13
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+1 to this.

cepm...@yahoo.co.uk

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May 30, 2013, 11:03:50 AM5/30/13
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I stand corrected!
My observations were based on what had been going on at the old space
which appeared to be not much.

Jon Russell

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May 30, 2013, 11:47:36 AM5/30/13
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+1 from me. 

I'd love to help. I can help collect it too ... do we know exactly how big it is ? will it fit in a 4x4 or will it need a van ?

Jon.

Necati

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May 31, 2013, 4:48:18 AM5/31/13
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+1 from me 

Necati

Tim Storey

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May 31, 2013, 5:21:13 AM5/31/13
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+1 and me


On 31 May 2013 09:48, Necati <neca...@gmail.com> wrote:
+1 from me 

Necati

Chris Jack

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May 31, 2013, 5:27:28 AM5/31/13
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Ok so here's some info.

I have also asked as to whether the staubli software comes with the controller. I am as certain as I can be this is the case as it was previously in operation until the all important cable got lost. (cable is actually £3k from staubli I am told)

I'm hoping the below info is enough to know whether the space can accept it or not and what size vehicle you'll need (bear in mind I've not seen the thing yet).

If I could possibly get a definite yay or nay today as to whether it will be taken and that there is an appropriate vehicle/driver willing (we can work out pick up logistics later), that'd be really great.

Cheers,
Chris Jack.

---

Robot arm:

Staubli
Charge nominal 1.5kg
Type: RX60L
Reference/machine number 597411 - 01
Fabrication Le F - 12 - 1997
Masse kg 42Kg


Controller:

Staubli
3 x 400V - 50/60Hz
4000VA
Type CS7 - M RX60
Masse Kg 80Kg
Reference/Machine Number - 597411 - 01
Fabrication Le F - 12 - 1997

Chris Jack

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May 31, 2013, 5:34:19 AM5/31/13
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Details on the software side:

"no there is no software with the arm. The way it works is that a program
in V+ (same family of VAL II robot arm software) language should be
written from a PC and then uploaded by serial communication to the
controller. The controller will execute the software.

But we do not have the language installation package....

This robot system uses a programming language called V+.
* The level of V+ that can be installed on the controller
depends on the version of boards that are installed in the controller
(CPU/SIO etc)
* Communication possibilities on that system are limited. Most commonly
they were used with RS232 serial lines comms.
* There are no labview drivers available for this system."

Aaron Sokoloski

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May 31, 2013, 5:34:52 AM5/31/13
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There's a video of the RX60L on this page: http://www.industrial-robotics.co.uk/movies.htm

tgreer

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May 31, 2013, 5:38:53 AM5/31/13
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It weighs less than me... I'd say we take it..

Chris Jack

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May 31, 2013, 5:44:54 AM5/31/13
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Some pictures from the manual about installation which may be useful (they have complete manual to give).
DSC_1269.jpg
DSC_1270.jpg
DSC_1271.jpg

Zac Stevens

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May 31, 2013, 6:10:51 AM5/31/13
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On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Chris Jack <christophe...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok so here's some info.

I have also asked as to whether the staubli software comes with the controller.  I am as certain as I can be this is the case as it was previously in operation until the all important cable got lost. (cable is actually £3k from staubli I am told)

I'm guessing this is the cable we'd need to replace: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Staubli-RX60-CS7MB-Cable-/360648795239

Controller:

Staubli
3 x 400V - 50/60Hz
4000VA
Type CS7 - M RX60
Masse Kg  80Kg
Reference/Machine Number - 597411 - 01
Fabrication Le  F - 12 - 1997

Seems that the power requirement is 3 x 208V.

Auction with some pictures of a similar unit from 2000:
And another from 1999:


Z

Russ Garrett

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May 31, 2013, 6:15:14 AM5/31/13
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On 31 May 2013 11:10, Zac Stevens <z...@cryptocracy.com> wrote:
> Seems that the power requirement is 3 x 208V.

These kind of things are generally made in two variants for US and EU
power, so I don't see any reason to believe that it isn't 400V.

(In the unlikely event that it is 208V we do actually have a 3-phase
step-down transformer...)

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

mentar

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May 31, 2013, 6:16:54 AM5/31/13
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This is marginally heavier than our current robot arm.
The key stat is repeatability which is +-0,02 mm, i.e. it is very precise!
I think we should definitely take it if offered.

Jon, a 4x4 should be big enough, assuming it's in a "cuddle" position.

Chris, let us know when and where :)

Mentar

Monty

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May 31, 2013, 6:47:22 AM5/31/13
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I think this is great. However, based on how projects such as the Stratasys, vending machine, and the previous robot arm have stagnated, stalled or otherwise made slow progress I'd like to see it documented early on just who will be taking the lead on this project because before we've had communication problems on people not knowing what others are doing or intending. Also, while its great everyone is thinking of all the amazing things that can be done with it when it works, these are the same sentiments that were felt for the last one and currently it seems mentar is the only one trying to get it working for it to be in a fit state for its next stage in life, so I'd like to see what the plan is for if we can't replace or make a cable i.e. how long is it worth allowing it to stay in the space if we can't get a cable to make it work? Could we impose a time limit on it before someone has to take it home or it gets binned? And since people aren't going to be happy binning it who's willing to take charge of selling it, should we get to that point?


Yours,
The Pessimist.

Monty

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May 31, 2013, 6:52:44 AM5/31/13
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TL;DR version: This will essentially be a project, due to it being non-functional, so who will be taking responsibility and how long do they wish to store the item in the space?

Chris Jack

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May 31, 2013, 7:08:51 AM5/31/13
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Don't forget that if progress on it were to grind to a stop that I'd imagine there would be some pretty serious motors (and more) in there just waiting to be put to use in something else.

Nigel Worsley

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May 31, 2013, 7:17:58 AM5/31/13
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> I'd like to see what the plan is for if we can't replace or make a cable

We can definitely make the cable, Farnell sell the required connectors. They aren't cheap though - the inserts are about �14 each,
an eye watering �60 each for the housings and another �80 for the crimp pins and sockets. So that is about �230 just for the
connectors, then we need to buy the cable to go between them. And if we need to buy the correct crimp tool etc. for these connectors
then add another �760. At that price I would have a go with whatever other crimp tool I could find and hope for the best!

Nigle

Nick Johnson

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May 31, 2013, 7:21:10 AM5/31/13
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Hi Nigel,

Do you have links or product numbers for those parts?

-Nick


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Nigel Worsley

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May 31, 2013, 7:30:29 AM5/31/13
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> Do you have links or product numbers for those parts?

Contacts and crimp tools etc. can be seen here:
http://www.easyflip.co.uk/Farnell_element14_2013_UK/book.html?page=1790
I believe that it is the HN2D contact series that are required, but I was guessing at which sizes are needed when coming up with the
cost estimate.

The 108 way inserts:
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-hts/2-1103216-3/insert-male-crimp-108way/dp/132380
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-hts/2-1103220-3/insert-female-crimp-108way/dp/132391

The price for the hood was a based on a different size. I believe I have now found the correct ones:
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-hts/3-1106470-0/hood-size-8-top-entry-m40/dp/1355320
About half the cost I originally said, so the total is looking more like �170

Nigle

mentar

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May 31, 2013, 8:02:17 AM5/31/13
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Dear Pessimist,
As mentioned before I'm happy to take ownership of this, with view to
make this from a project to a piece of equipment for the benefit of the
space and it's community.
You seem to forget that some people in the space enjoy learning how
things are made, the journey is often more interesting than the inn.

As for timeframes, we can agree on those once we get the arm and figure
out how much work needs to be done and how many people would be willing
to help out?
Would you like to volunteer to help turn this project into equipment? :)

Kind regards
Mentar
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Mark Steward

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May 31, 2013, 8:31:35 AM5/31/13
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Paddy's also offered to help make the cable, and is fairly confident this project will not take long to get working.  So let's give it a month on the do-not-hack sticker, and reassess once the cable is made or we find more problems when it arrives.


Mark


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Monty

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May 31, 2013, 8:34:36 AM5/31/13
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Sounds good.
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cepm...@yahoo.co.uk

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May 31, 2013, 10:53:24 AM5/31/13
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Where is the supply for this coming from? 4kVA 3 phase means we will have
to have a dedicated circuit and switchgear with an outlet somewhere
suitable for working on the arm. The cost and work needed for this needs
to be looked at.

Phil

--
" et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos. "


On Fri, 31 May 2013 13:31:35 +0100, Mark Steward <marks...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Paddy Duncan

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May 31, 2013, 11:08:04 AM5/31/13
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It will have to go in the basement or the western end of upstairs, minimal
work is required but we will have to spend a few quid in the electrical
shop.
Paddy
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Chris Jack

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May 31, 2013, 11:39:20 AM5/31/13
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This appears to be a collective 'yes' (with conditions/responsibilities on the implementation of it at the 'space end obvs).

So, Montar, you're taking responsibility, right? If so, you may need to sign a little health & safety thingy when you pick it up. Nothing unusual, just standard British bureaucracy.


I'd love to help. I can help collect it too ... do we know exactly how big it is ? will it fit in a 4x4 or will it need a van ?

And Jon, you've got the vehicle, right?

I'm going to give the academic in charge a thumbs up in 20mins. Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Best,
Chris.

Tim Storey

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May 31, 2013, 11:42:28 AM5/31/13
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be good to try and combine the robot arm with the CNC router table we haven't mentioned that's going in the far end of the wkshop ;)
it could swap out bits or hold beer or pencils
\t

Jonty Wareing

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May 31, 2013, 12:27:31 PM5/31/13
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Personally I'd like it to have a screen on the end of the arm displaying
a smiley face, similar to GERTY from Moon. I'd rather it didn't have evil
instructions from the directors though.

--jonty

Jasper Wallace

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May 31, 2013, 4:52:30 PM5/31/13
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On Fri, 31 May 2013, Chris Jack wrote:

> This appears to be a collective 'yes' (with conditions/responsibilities on the implementation of it at the 'space end
> obvs).
>
> So, Montar, you're taking responsibility, right? If so, you may�need to sign a little health & safety thingy when you
> pick it up. Nothing unusual, just standard British bureaucracy.
>
>
> I'd love to help. I can help collect it too ... do we know exactly how big it is ? will it fit in a 4x4 or will
> it need a van ?
>
> And Jon, you've got the vehicle, right?
>
> I'm going to give the academic in charge a thumbs up in 20mins.�Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Can we be *absolutly* certain that we get *all* of the bits that go with
it?

It's a bit ominous that we are missing the cable, and that we don't have
any software to produce V+. We need to be certain that we get any and all
manuals, cd, packing instructions, spares, small vital parts hidden at the
back of drawers etc...

> Best,
> Chris.
> �
> Jon.
>
>
> On Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:24:42 AM UTC+1, Chris Jack wrote:
> Just putting an initial feeler out there whilst I wait for the cogs of academia to slowly turn (as
> such this is not a cast iron offer yet btw)....
>
> My dept at Queen Mary uni is "getting rid" of a Staubli robot arm (not sure what model but it's an
> older one and its big) plus pc tower controller + software -- on account of them not having the
> cable! The cable does cost hundreds of pounds but the guys in the electronics lab reckon with enough
> patience you could probably custom one yourself.
>
> Either way, it's going spare and so I have eagerly pointed out to them that the hackspace may just
> want such a thing.
>
> So how's about it? Is there room? Are these silly questions ;)
>
> 2 conditions:
> - it needs picking up at some point I don't know when yet, in a van and preferably with a few bodies
> present as it's damn heavy.
> - someone representative of the space (any member I guess) will need to sign over responsibility for
> it on a recycling/ethical reuse kind of angle. �Nothing major, just h&s type thing.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris Jack
>
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> �
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Jon Russell

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May 31, 2013, 10:02:19 PM5/31/13
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So, yes, confirmation from me, I can collect it in a 4x4. However, I'm in the US next week, so the earliest I can collect it is Wed 12th June ?

Is that ok ?

I'm excited ! I've always wanted to play with a "proper" industrial robot arm. I've seen a few "for parts only" of these on eBay a number of times, but even broken they are pricey... And always need shipping from the US.

That may also be an option for repairing ours ... if we find a "for parts" one on eBay, with the cable we need ... ?

There's a broken big brother of ours (TX90L) on eBay at the mo : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310620493807

Regards,

Jon.



Ndlovu (aka) Dean

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Jun 4, 2013, 4:34:16 AM6/4/13
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Am looking forward to this arriving .....  If a hand is needed with collection holler please 

Chris Jack

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Jun 4, 2013, 5:49:38 AM6/4/13
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On Friday, 31 May 2013 21:52:30 UTC+1, jasper wrote:
On Fri, 31 May 2013, Chris Jack wrote:

> This appears to be a collective 'yes' (with conditions/responsibilities on the implementation of it at the 'space end
> obvs).
>
> So, Montar, you're taking responsibility, right? If so, you may�need to sign a little health & safety thingy when you
> pick it up. Nothing unusual, just standard British bureaucracy.
>
>
> I'd love to help. I can help collect it too ... do we know exactly how big it is ? will it fit in a 4x4 or will
> it need a van ?
>
> And Jon, you've got the vehicle, right?
>
> I'm going to give the academic in charge a thumbs up in 20mins.�Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Can we be *absolutly* certain that we get *all* of the bits that go with
it?

It's a bit ominous that we are missing the cable, and that we don't have
any software to produce V+. We need to be certain that we get any and all
manuals, cd, packing instructions, spares, small vital parts hidden at the
back of drawers etc...


AFAIK only the cable is missing.
 
> Best,
> Chris.
> �
> Jon.
>
>
> On Thursday, May 30, 2013 9:24:42 AM UTC+1, Chris Jack wrote:
>       Just putting an initial feeler out there whilst I wait for the cogs of academia to slowly turn (as
>       such this is not a cast iron offer yet btw)....
>
>       My dept at Queen Mary uni is "getting rid" of a Staubli robot arm (not sure what model but it's an
>       older one and its big) plus pc tower controller + software -- on account of them not having the
>       cable! The cable does cost hundreds of pounds but the guys in the electronics lab reckon with enough
>       patience you could probably custom one yourself.
>
>       Either way, it's going spare and so I have eagerly pointed out to them that the hackspace may just
>       want such a thing.
>
>       So how's about it? Is there room? Are these silly questions ;)
>
>       2 conditions:
>       - it needs picking up at some point I don't know when yet, in a van and preferably with a few bodies
>       present as it's damn heavy.
>       - someone representative of the space (any member I guess) will need to sign over responsibility for
>       it on a recycling/ethical reuse kind of angle. �Nothing major, just h&s type thing.
>
>       Cheers,
>       Chris Jack
>
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Chris Jack

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Jun 4, 2013, 5:59:38 AM6/4/13
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Dear all,

I have now put the academic in charge of the robot arm at Queen Mary in contact with Mentar, who will be orchestrating the pickup etc. It will likely be Jon Russell picking up next week by the looks of things.

However If someone else wants to pick it up this week then I'd suggest getting in touch with Mentar asap.

I sincerely look forward to seeing it up and running in the space.

Happy robo-arming, folks.

Best,
Chris.

tgreer

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Jun 4, 2013, 6:29:08 AM6/4/13
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WOOOOOOT!

Metz

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Jun 4, 2013, 7:30:48 AM6/4/13
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Woooot indeed.

mentar

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Jun 4, 2013, 7:59:09 AM6/4/13
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Sorting out the paper work now,

If someone has a car handy before the 12th please let me know so I can
arrange with the Massimo at Queen Mary, the arm should fit in an average
sized boot if the seats fold down.

Thanks
Mentar

On 04/06/13 10:59, Chris Jack wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I have now put the academic in charge of the robot arm at Queen Mary
> in contact with Mentar, who will be orchestrating the pickup etc. It
> will likely be Jon Russell picking up next week by the looks of things.
>
> However If someone else /wants/ to pick it up this week then I'd
> suggest getting in touch with Mentar asap.
>
> I sincerely look forward to seeing it up and running in the space.
>
> Happy robo-arming, folks.
>
> Best,
> Chris.
>
> On Saturday, 1 June 2013 03:02:19 UTC+1, Jon Russell wrote:
>
> So, yes, confirmation from me, I can collect it in a 4x4. However,
> I'm in the US next week, so the earliest I can collect it is Wed
> 12th June ?
>
> Is that ok ?
>
> I'm excited ! I've always wanted to play with a "proper"
> industrial robot arm. I've seen a few "for parts only" of these on
> eBay a number of times, but even broken they are pricey... And
> always need shipping from the US.
>
> That may also be an option for repairing ours ... if we find a
> "for parts" one on eBay, with the cable we need ... ?
>
> There's a broken big brother of ours (TX90L) on eBay at the mo :
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310620493807
> <http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310620493807>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon.
>
>
>
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>


tgreer

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Jun 4, 2013, 8:00:19 AM6/4/13
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I can arrange that... when do you want to do it? Tomorrow?

mentar

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Jun 5, 2013, 8:03:43 AM6/5/13
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Wohoo!
It's been arranged! Tgreer and I will go pick up the arm around 4:00pm
this friday.

We'll put it in the area behind the wood workshop for now.

Mentar
> > an email to london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out
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Simon

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Jun 5, 2013, 11:09:37 AM6/5/13
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wooot :-)
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