Geocache in the space?

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Katie Sutton

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Feb 6, 2011, 3:50:15 PM2/6/11
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Would anybody awfully object if I placed a geocache in the space?
(And if not, would anybody mind helping me work out a suitable place
to hide it?)

I'd obviously put a disclaimer on the description that non-member
cachers should check the webcams (and link to them) to make sure
there's a member in the space before making a special visit.

(On the offchance people don't know what geocaching is: the really
simple explanation is "a treasure hunt using GPS satellites".)

--
Katie Sutton
http://tajasel.org

"The ‘Net is a waste of time, and that’s exactly what’s right about
it." ~ William Gibson

Paul Dart

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:13:30 AM2/7/11
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On 6 February 2011 20:50, Katie Sutton <taj...@gmail.com> wrote:
Would anybody awfully object if I placed a geocache in the space?
(And if not, would anybody mind helping me work out a suitable place
to hide it?)

I'd obviously put a disclaimer on the description that non-member
cachers should check the webcams (and link to them) to make sure
there's a member in the space before making a special visit.

(On the offchance people don't know what geocaching is: the really
simple explanation is "a treasure hunt using GPS satellites".)


How about the carpark somewhere? Does't require access to the space then. Saves all that hassle. Stash it behind the skip or bike hut or something?

Ciarán Mooney

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:15:38 AM2/7/11
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Hi,

How about popping it into a willing members box? That should be out of
the way, and won't get muggled.

Paul, if it's in the car-park then people have no excuse to come and
have a look at the space and maybe become members.

Ciarán

Mark Steward

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:20:00 AM2/7/11
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On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Paul Dart <paul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Saves all that hassle.
>

I think that's kind of the point of geocaching...

Zac Stevens

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:20:23 AM2/7/11
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On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM, Ciarán Mooney
<general...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> How about popping it into a willing members box? That should be out of
> the way, and won't get muggled.

I'm not personally thrilled by the idea of encouraging random
strangers to rifle through the members boxes looking for a geocache.

(I'm quite possibly missing the point, here)


Z

Elliot West

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:20:07 AM2/7/11
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In the plenum space above the suspended ceiling in 24. In this location it'll be out of the way of hackspace users and nicely hidden for geocache purposes.

clare greenhalgh

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:22:50 AM2/7/11
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They are welcome to use mine (box that is..)! The one marked Nokomis...



On 7 February 2011 11:15, Ciarán Mooney <general...@googlemail.com> wrote:



--

clare greenhalgh

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:23:33 AM2/7/11
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But the ceiling space would be better still!
--

Ciarán Mooney

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:26:18 AM2/7/11
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Hi,

Good point Zac. I assumed they would head straight to the correct box.

Ceiling space with some kind of logo on the outside would probably be
a good idea.

Would slightly defeat the point but would be worth writing this up on
the wiki so that if there is some restructuring in the ceiling space
members might know what it is.

Ciarán

Paul Dart

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:30:13 AM2/7/11
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This. Cant we hide it in a letter box on the door of unit 23 or something?

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:30:07 AM2/7/11
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On 7 February 2011 11:15, Ciarán Mooney <general...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> How about popping it into a willing members box? That should be out of
> the way, and won't get muggled.

That was one of my lines of thought (and I'd be quite happy to make my
box the cache). I don't (currently) need a box at the space, so I
could slap a big Geocaching sticker on the side of it to mark it as
the cache, and then hide it on the shelves.

> Paul, if it's in the car-park then people have no excuse to come and
> have a look at the space and maybe become members.

Also what I was thinking.

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:32:54 AM2/7/11
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I was thinking of it being a larger cache than that. London is full
of micros and nanos (film canister size and smaller) - it'd be nice to
have some more larger ones.

(I realise I probably sent my last email as you were writing yours,
but see that one for suggestion to fix the
people-rifling-through-boxes problem - a geocaching sticker to
identify my own box as the cache.)

spooq

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:54:04 AM2/7/11
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How about a box attached to the hackspace door? Won't get thrown away
or take up room, will bring people right to the space without
requiring them to actually enter and rummage around, and accessible
out-of-hours.

Luke

Elliot West

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Feb 7, 2011, 6:56:38 AM2/7/11
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It's Hackney - the box will be gone within 24hrs :-)

Sue Spence

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Feb 7, 2011, 8:21:12 AM2/7/11
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On Feb 7, 11:15 am, Ciarán Mooney <general.moo...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
It's a great idea, but not in a box. No matter how well marked *the*
box is, people will end up looking in the wrong box.

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 8:39:13 AM2/7/11
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On 7 February 2011 13:21, Sue Spence <s...@pennine.com> wrote:
> It's a great idea, but not in a box.  No matter how well marked *the*
> box is, people will end up looking in the wrong box.

What if the description clearly says to look out for a Geocaching.com
sticker and I put several of said enormous stickers on multiple faces
of the box to identify it?

Alex Pounds

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Feb 7, 2011, 8:48:03 AM2/7/11
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On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 01:39:13PM +0000, Katie Sutton wrote:
> What if the description clearly says to look out for a Geocaching.com
> sticker and I put several of said enormous stickers on multiple faces
> of the box to identify it?

People are bad at following instructions - especially instructions they
read several hours ago, at home - and when confronted with a wall of
60-100 boxes when you're looking for a specific one, people may
instinctively rummage. Given that Hackspace members could be working on
things that are fragile, dangerous, and/or expensive, I'd rather see a
solution that avoids increasing the change that people fiddle with the
storage boxes.

--
Alex Pounds .~. http://www.alexpounds.com/
/V\ http://www.ethicsgirls.com/
// \\
"Variables won't; Constants aren't" /( )\
^`~'^

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 9:09:01 AM2/7/11
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On 7 February 2011 13:48, Alex Pounds <al...@alexpounds.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 07, 2011 at 01:39:13PM +0000, Katie Sutton wrote:
>> What if the description clearly says to look out for a Geocaching.com
>> sticker and I put several of said enormous stickers on multiple faces
>> of the box to identify it?
>
> People are bad at following instructions - especially instructions they
> read several hours ago, at home - and when confronted with a wall of
> 60-100 boxes when you're looking for a specific one, people may
> instinctively rummage. Given that Hackspace members could be working on
> things that are fragile, dangerous, and/or expensive, I'd rather see a
> solution that avoids increasing the change that people fiddle with the
> storage boxes.

Fair point (though most cachers I know either use an app to look at
cache details, or take printouts with them so they have a copy of the
instructions/hint).

So:
* somewhere near the space (so we can encourage people to come in) but
not actually inside, to prevent rummaging of members' stuff and allow
24/7 access even when there are no members in the space.
* somewhere I can hide a large-ish cache (I want to go for at least
'small' sized, e.g. a little bigger than a handspan) so that it won't
be easily found and stolen by non-cachers.

It also needs to be very local to the space as geocaching.com rules
state that permission of landowner/building owner has to be sought and
given. If it's within the boundaries (ish) of the space then
permission is granted by (presumably) Jonty/membership as a whole -
hence starting this email thread - whereas if it's in the carpark, it
would presumably fall to Workspace Group to grant permission. I had
enough trouble convincing Greenwich Council to let me plant a nano
(film canister) size one near my home; I don't want to do that all
over again with the building managers...

Dave Williams

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Feb 7, 2011, 9:13:06 AM2/7/11
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+1 to 'not in the boxes, please', though in principle a Geocache is a great idea to get people to find out about the space.

Dave

Sue Spence

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Feb 7, 2011, 9:40:27 AM2/7/11
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On Feb 7, 1:39 pm, Katie Sutton <ka...@tajasel.org> wrote:
> On 7 February 2011 13:21, Sue Spence <s...@pennine.com> wrote:
>
> > It's a great idea, but not in a box.  No matter how well marked *the*
> > box is, people will end up looking in the wrong box.
>
> What if the description clearly says to look out for a Geocaching.com
> sticker and I put several of said enormous stickers on multiple faces
> of the box to identify it?
>

The space is pretty large. There are many spots outside of the
personal box area that would be good places to put a cache. The box
area isn't, because it's risky. Avoiding the potential for damaging
the personal stuff of a paying member has to be paramount.

It would be even better to have it in a fish shaped waterproof
canister in the laser cutter aquarium, and no I'm not being serious.

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 10:02:04 AM2/7/11
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On 7 February 2011 14:40, Sue Spence <s...@pennine.com> wrote:
> On Feb 7, 1:39 pm, Katie Sutton <ka...@tajasel.org> wrote:
>> On 7 February 2011 13:21, Sue Spence <s...@pennine.com> wrote:
>>
>> > It's a great idea, but not in a box.  No matter how well marked *the*
>> > box is, people will end up looking in the wrong box.
>>
>> What if the description clearly says to look out for a Geocaching.com
>> sticker and I put several of said enormous stickers on multiple faces
>> of the box to identify it?
>>
>
> The space is pretty large.  There are many spots outside of the
> personal box area that would be good places to put a cache.  The box
> area isn't, because it's risky.  Avoiding the potential for damaging
> the personal stuff of a paying member has to be paramount.

Okay, well, I don't know the space very well yet, hence asking for
advice from those who do. As above:

> So:
> * somewhere near the space (so we can encourage people to come in) but
> not actually inside, to prevent rummaging of members' stuff and allow
> 24/7 access even when there are no members in the space.
> * somewhere I can hide a large-ish cache (I want to go for at least
> 'small' sized, e.g. a little bigger than a handspan) so that it won't
> be easily found and stolen by non-cachers.
>
> It also needs to be very local to the space as geocaching.com rules
> state that permission of landowner/building owner has to be sought and
> given.  If it's within the boundaries (ish) of the space then
> permission is granted by (presumably) Jonty/membership as a whole -
> hence starting this email thread - whereas if it's in the carpark, it
> would presumably fall to Workspace Group to grant permission.  I had
> enough trouble convincing Greenwich Council to let me plant a nano
> (film canister) size one near my home; I don't want to do that all
> over again with the building managers...

Of course, if people are happy to have the cache inside the space,
that's fine too. But we need to come to a consensus about *where*
inside.

Some suggestions, feel free to add votes or shoot them down as you wish:
- the balcony
- somewhere in one of the workshops/quiet room
- kitchen area
- entrance area (maybe with some method of detecting the cache has
been opened, so the space can speak to the cacher to congratulate them
and encourage them to stay a while?)

Adrian Godwin

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Feb 7, 2011, 10:16:30 AM2/7/11
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Inside the space seems to me to cause a problem. GPS location won't work very well and in any case isn't really accurate enough to locate an item more precisely than a room. So once you're in the space, it's the manual search that geocaching generally requires at the target location. In addition, it's been suggested that searchers should check first on the webcam that the space is occupied. So the geolocation part is pretty well unused - it's a postcode search followed by a manual search.

Outside seems more reasonable, perhaps the container could then provide an invitation to the geocacher to come and visit the then-nearby space.

The balcony would avoid these problems but isn't really public : if the door weren't broken it would only be accessible to unit occupants.

Maybe that leaves 'hiding in plain sight' - place the cache on the hackspace door or similar, but made to look like something that will not often be stolen; e.g. a signboard (a cache can be big but need not be thick) or a decoration. Only the geocacher, perhaps helped by a hint, would think more carefully about the object and realise it was more than it seemed.

-adrian

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 10:28:25 AM2/7/11
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On 7 February 2011 15:16, Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Inside the space seems to me to cause a problem. GPS location won't work
> very well and in any case isn't really accurate enough to locate an item
> more precisely than a room. So once you're in the space, it's the manual
> search that geocaching generally requires at the target location. In
> addition, it's been suggested that searchers should check first on the
> webcam that the space is occupied. So the geolocation part is pretty well
> unused - it's a postcode search followed by a manual search.
>
> Outside seems more reasonable, perhaps the container could then provide an
> invitation to the geocacher to come and visit the then-nearby space.
>
> The balcony would avoid these problems but isn't really public : if the door
> weren't broken it would only be accessible to unit occupants.
>
> Maybe that leaves 'hiding in plain sight' - place the cache on the hackspace
> door or similar, but made to look like something that will not often be
> stolen; e.g. a signboard (a cache can be big but need not be thick) or a
> decoration. Only the geocacher, perhaps helped by a hint, would think more
> carefully about the object and realise it was more than it seemed.
>
> -adrian

Ooh, idea:

A sign outside the door, which says "Congratulations, you found the
cache! Knock on the door to come inside, sign the log and see what
Hackspace is about" or similar.

And then we have a labelled box/something inside the space (near the
door) which a member can hand to the geocacher, negating the need for
rummaging amongst members' stuff - this will contain a "visitors book"
or something, and any other trinkets, etc. that cachers want to leave.

Mark Steward

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Feb 7, 2011, 10:42:15 AM2/7/11
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On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 3:16 PM, Adrian Godwin <artg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe that leaves 'hiding in plain sight' - place the cache on the hackspace
> door or similar, but made to look like something that will not often be
> stolen; e.g. a signboard (a cache can be big but need not be thick) or a
> decoration. Only the geocacher, perhaps helped by a hint, would think more
> carefully about the object and realise it was more than it seemed.
>

Or something that requires a magic knock to open?

Jon Spriggs

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Feb 7, 2011, 10:45:36 AM2/7/11
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The most ingenious caches I've found recently were things that didn't look like they lifted or moved that did.

For example, tree stumps, fence posts and heavy duty (looking) metalwork.
--
Jon "The Nice Guy" Spriggs

Dave Williams

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Feb 7, 2011, 10:48:45 AM2/7/11
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Cut a hatch and put an internal hinge on one of the trebuchet weights, and hollow out the middle? That'd be a bit cool and completely avoids the boxes :)

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 11:26:35 AM2/7/11
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On 7 February 2011 15:48, Dave Williams <da...@dave.io> wrote:
> Cut a hatch and put an internal hinge on one of the trebuchet weights, and
> hollow out the middle? That'd be a bit cool and completely avoids the boxes
> :)

Some kind of waterproof container is generally preferred even within
hatches etc. for obvious reasons.

Dave Williams

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Feb 7, 2011, 11:28:17 AM2/7/11
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Even under cover from rain? Unless someone spunks in it, it'll probably be safe...

Dave Williams
da...@dave.io | http://dave.io | +447742310896

Katie Sutton

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Feb 7, 2011, 11:52:33 AM2/7/11
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On 7 February 2011 16:28, Dave Williams <da...@dave.io> wrote:
> Even under cover from rain? Unless someone spunks in it, it'll probably be
> safe...

You'd think that, but I've seen many wet cache logs in supposedly
watertight locations.

A box keeps the log together with provided pencil, trinkets, etc.
inside the hatch too.

*shrugs* I can provide a box (I already have several ideal ones picked
up for hiding caches) so it's no big deal, as long as it fits in the
hatch (and I have multiple sizes, so probably have one the right
size).

Toby Catlin

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Feb 7, 2011, 11:53:29 AM2/7/11
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stay classy dave ;)

On 7 February 2011 16:28, Dave Williams <da...@dave.io> wrote:

Dirk-Willem van Gulik

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Feb 10, 2011, 1:53:31 PM2/10/11
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On 7 Feb 2011, at 16:53, Toby Catlin wrote:

> stay classy dave ;)

Agreed. And a tiny edit to the subject line may make this a bit more classy and fun - and should keep us occupied for quite a few evenings,

Dw

Katie Sutton

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Feb 10, 2011, 7:38:22 PM2/10/11
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