Advanced Warning of Dinosaur Invasion

[Akki]

Hi all,

On Wednesday* (hopefully), I'll start working on building a 6ft high,
plywood t-rex skeleton. This should only be 2 sheets of plywood
(directions says two 4ft x 8ft, 1.2m x 2.4m sheets) but I expect it'll
take a few days to cut out all the pieces. I will tidy up and label
all the pieces.

After everything's cut out, I'll need to finish/paint all the pieces
so it'll be a long term project(maybe 2-3 weeks). I'll try to fit the
smaller pieces into my box but judging from the pattern I've cut out,
there will be a few 1.5m x 0.3m pieces hiding around in the workshop
too.

It's for EMF Camp and will probably be making an appearance at
Brighton Mini Maker Faire in September too.

~Akki (Heather)

*inb4 "not a member" - payment went through today, will probably show
up properly on Wednesday as being a member again :P

[tgreer]

You're meant to ask first... not just dictate it's happening...

[Akki]

What are your specific objections to my flat dinosaur, then?

[David Murphy]

The rules say you have to mail the mailing list, not that you have to ask permission.

"You must email the mailing list first, and items should be clearly labelled as yours, and with the date they will be removed by. (We have Do Not Hack stickers in the entrance area.)"

[tom]

has that antenna gone yet?

[Martin Dengler]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 08:53:44AM +0100, David Murphy wrote:
> The rules say you have to mail the mailing list, not that you have to ask
> permission.

I read the rules' "first" to imply the reason for emailing is to ask
permission.

That being said, I don't see why someone doing something unoffensive
and pretty much using the right procedure merits a pedantic response.
Polite encouragement to ask; oops, we need to fix the wiki sure.
That's a sure way to ensure nobody complies with the letter or spirit
of the rules.

~mtd (Martin)

[Jim MacArthur]

I'm generally against large items being stored at the moment as I
think the workshop is dangerously overcrowded but I think this will be
a drop in the ocean.

Jim

[Akki]

How about I evict some other projects to atone for my sin of making a
giant flatpack dinosaur? ;)

[tgreer]

Just as a follow up I was in the space today and saw some signs up
EVERYWHERE...

http://i.imgur.com/NKI2z.jpg

If the signs are wrong then they need changes (wv I know). If the
wiki's wrong then lets update it :)

On Jul 24, 8:53 am, David Murphy <murphy.da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The rules say you have to mail the mailing list, not that you have to ask
> permission.
>

> "You *must* email the mailing
> list<http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/List>first, and items

[David Murphy]

I'm curious, who exactly has the right to give permission given how the group is organised?
does it have to be a trustee? or just any old bod on the list?
"Permission" doesn't seem to make much sense given how the space is organised.

perhaps "to allow people the chance to make objections" would make more sense.

[tgreer]

My understanding would be, if an objections raised, dont... But what
do I know... I'm just a member

[David Murphy]

So if any randomer objects for any reason, no matter how petty or unreasonable then they can veto whatever you ask the list about?

[Charles Yarnold]

Decisions are reached by consensus of the membership base.

[tgreer]

Dunno. One for the trustees to answer maybe?

My objection (however retarded/aggressive/pointless people may have
seen my first comment as) is that there's too much shit in the
workshop. Falling over stuff as it is and causing injuries.. If only
we had a bigger space! I'm not concerned about the 2 sheets of wood,
its the constructed item thats concern.

[Gavan Fantom]

On 25/07/2012 18:15, David Murphy wrote:
> So if any randomer objects for any reason, no matter how petty or
> unreasonable then they can veto whatever you ask the list about?

I'm confident that a petty or unreasonable objection would result in an
easily identifiable flamewar, bikeshed or similar entity.


--
Gillette - the best a man can forget

[Russ Garrett]

On 25 July 2012 18:15, David Murphy <murphy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So if any randomer objects for any reason, no matter how petty or
> unreasonable then they can veto whatever you ask the list about?

Clearly we should form a committee to publish a white paper
recommending the grounds for a charter to form a panel to consider the
merit of such applications.

Or, alternatively, maybe we should STOP BEING SO DAMN PEDANTIC. I'm
sure if anyone had any serious objections, Akki would have changed her
plan. There is no issue here.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[Dave Ingram]

Not necessarily. It's about deciding by consensus, but with rational discussion.

For example, if I were to object to something being brought into the space because I don't like the colour, then that's just unreasonably petty and would have little weight. The other members would likely (and correctly) dismiss my objection quickly on those grounds.
If, on the other hand, I objected because it would (say) interfere with a pacemaker, then that would be a valid objection (and at the very least, it would provoke discussion on how the two could co-exist).

There are no hard and fast rules, but a certain amount of judgement is necessary. There will always be trolls, but it's usually clear.

That's how I see it, anyway.


D

[Russ Garrett]

On 25 July 2012 18:20, Dave Ingram <da...@dmi.me.uk> wrote:
> There are no hard and fast rules, but a certain amount of judgement is
> necessary. There will always be trolls, but it's usually clear.
>
> That's how I see it, anyway.

You are spot on.

The moment that people start trying to stick to the letter of the
rules, we end up with these tiring debates.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[tgreer]

It's not a tiring debate if we're just filling the workshop full of
crap that gets in the way.

On Jul 25, 6:21 pm, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:

> On 25 July 2012 18:20, Dave Ingram <d...@dmi.me.uk> wrote:
>
> > There are no hard and fast rules, but a certain amount of judgement is
> > necessary. There will always be trolls, but it's usually clear.
>
> > That's how I see it, anyway.
>
> You are spot on.
>
> The moment that people start trying to stick to the letter of the
> rules, we end up with these tiring debates.
>
> --
> Russ Garrett

> r...@garrett.co.uk

[Mark Steward]

So your objection isn't really with the wording of the rules or the way Akki asked on the list?  You seem to be trying to continue this argument unnecessarily.

Mark

[Russ Garrett]

On 25 July 2012 18:22, tgreer <ukt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not a tiring debate if we're just filling the workshop full of
> crap that gets in the way.

The people who are predominantly filling the workshop with crap are
not the people like Akki who email the list with full details on what
they're up to, and a completion date. The main problem is people who
don't ask the list at all.

--
Russ Garrett
ru...@garrett.co.uk

[tgreer]

You mean like Occupy with their Solar Panel shit in the hallway? I'm
objecting due to lack of space to work in the <bold>work</bold>shop. I
probably should have put that in my original post, apologies :)

And no Mark, maybe I should have just raised the whole wiki/signs
difference with the trustees as opposed to the list, but I feel
there's more input from the members doing it this way :)

> r...@garrett.co.uk

[Clare Greenhalgh]

I think a solution to this problem would be to throw out anything that has been left in the workshop (not in a box) without a prior warning to the list. 

If this happens a couple of times (after the rant on the mailing list) people will take the hint.

Then discussions like this will not happen as the rest of the rubbish, oops sorry, projects will not be there!

Noko

--

[tgreer]

Fine by me!

On Jul 25, 6:29 pm, Clare Greenhalgh <claregreenha...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think a solution to this problem would be to throw out anything that has
> been left in the workshop (not in a box) without a prior warning to the
> list.
>
> If this happens a couple of times (after the rant on the mailing list)
> people will take the hint.
>
> Then discussions like this will not happen as the rest of the rubbish, oops
> sorry, projects will not be there!
>
> Noko
>

> On 25 July 2012 18:25, Russ Garrett <r...@garrett.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On 25 July 2012 18:22, tgreer <ukt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It's not a tiring debate if we're just filling the workshop full of
> > > crap that gets in the way.
>
> > The people who are predominantly filling the workshop with crap are
> > not the people like Akki who email the list with full details on what
> > they're up to, and a completion date. The main problem is people who
> > don't ask the list at all.
>
> > --
> > Russ Garrett

> > r...@garrett.co.uk
>
> --