Ideas wanted!

[Matt Rutter]

Hi all... Attached is a picture of a stainless steel ring, used as a mould to make camembert. It's 100mm in diameter and 25mm high, and as you can see it's covered in the remains of the cheese that it moulded... 

We process these in batches of 800 or so, and at present, all the rings are washed by hand, a very time consuming process.

I'm trying to design a machine to wash them clean, preferably a continuous process where dirty rings go in one end, and clean ones pop out the other.

The cheese is incredibly sticky, so mechanical scrubbing is necessary, water jets alone are not enough... Even a jet washer doesn't get it all off.

If anyone has any ideas on how to build a suitable machine, I'd be interested to hear them!

Matt

[Chris Timson]

Got some ideas, give me a shout on Monday.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "London Hackspace" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to london-hack-sp...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAFvr5U3%3DUPGSW-W_pW%3Dbz6-hb1bvGFH7PuSiGUhqNWGb2TizFw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dragos M.]

Maybe a chemical water bath to degrade the casein and then and a pressurised rinse.

 The rings could go onto hooks that will drag them from the bath onto the rinse chamber (similar to film developing machines).

Another idea might be ultrasonic baths similar to the ones used to clean jewellery.

--

[Matt Rutter]

Ah, I didn't mention that it's vegan cheese, so no casein! We have tried enzymes to break up the fat and protein, I.e. washing powder, and it does work but is slow, even in conjunction with ultrasound.

Matt

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAGdbARb_WoFn0sKibHCsTX1cMgvWLQpZRy6x%2BM%2BKNxw%2B3yyCdA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ant -]

Whats the melting point of the cheese? Thinking boiling the water could help,  maybe combine that with vibrating the rings to help agitate it off.

Perhaps a prebath with a detergent to bond to the softened cheese and encourage it away as the rings vibrated then neat hot water encourage any remnants off. Might still require a hand wipe and inspection though.

Kind regards 

Ant

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAFvr5U0Dqbn2X2aed3OwUK3%2BcNMEfdskfQj2-2TjEe_DG%3DX%2BkQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Matt Rutter]

Hi Ant.. extreme heat is an option, but expensive to run, and not conducive to manual handling... We're hand washing at about 60C, with gloves...

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAHZn-VMcS_HHAF-w7o3uWLkkFR3Q6WerzE6FngT8sU-XoNXQRQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ant -]

If it were me I'd  try getting a tub of clean water of known temperature e.g. 60c and then using metal tongs shake the rings for a few minutes and see what the result is.

Depending on effectiveness try increasing and decreasing the temp to observe the difference.

If this proves even moderately successful you could mount the tub to a platform that vibrates it to replicate the hand shaking action. You can then add them to the tub with tongs cover (but don't seal or you get a pressure vessel depending on temp) the lid and let it pre-clean for what ever time frame is optimal and then finish by hand, atleast until you can work out a less labour intensive way to finish.

Kind regards 

Ant

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAFvr5U2e31ZWMBQgHg%2BNmLCERTeo_QsLqShr0p9-7ubHFJP3bw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ant -]

If extreme heat did prove a effective & economic solution due to reduced labour then the easy way round the manual handling issue is to use tongs and have a bowl of cold water that they are dipped in and left to sit for 30 seconds before manual handling.

The other option is you could get the washers a netflix subscription if the goal is to improve their quality of work life 😁

Kind regards 

Ant

[Adrian Godwin]

Something like a pub glass-washing machine with a rotating brush that goes inside the glass or tin ?

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAHZn-VN85%3Df2GYdXrUKmb%3D9LUC3p72ez-turovOUyZMKizivCw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Adrian Godwin]

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/bar-maid-a-200-upright-bar-glass-washer-115v/929A200.html

[Matthew]

Having watched a Youtube video I'm now an expert (not) but it looks like there isn't any heat or pressure involved it's just to shape the cheese whilst it sets?

Can you switch to silicon moulds or use a food safe non-stick spray?

[henry...@ntlworld.com]

Whilst silicon moulds might be an answer, the fact that they would have to be much thicker (to maintain their circularity) would mean that fewer could be used in the same area, which may somewhat restrict the rate of production. My solution would be to coat the inside of the metal containers with some fine, edible, allergen free* powder (rice flour?) before use, to aid extraction. 

*Veganism is a choice, allergic reactions are not.

[Adrian Godwin]

They wouldn't have to be thicker if made in a block containing several, like ice cubes

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/9972e094-0dd9-4ac7-84fc-ab7a7fd7c3fdn%40googlegroups.com.

[Deburred -]

Did a production engineering job some years back where we had to demould filters that had been encapsulated in polyurethane. Now it could be that fully cured polyurethane is less of a b+st#rd to clean off a substrate than camembert, but I would estimate not.

The simple answer that time round was to Teflon coat the moulds. Can't remember the thickness we used to get the durability but there's surely a specialist out there can advise. 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CALiMYrs0pA-XbVhU975tj8F1D8kYLPEW9CU8Kmex61-eiNGfWw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ant -]

I could be wrong but I seem to recall that teflon had a nasty habit of being linked to cancer. If producing food stuffs that might be something better avoided.

Kind regards 

Ant

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/london-hack-space/CAPN7kViEqnnsCQsZ%3D_WM8%2B6Z6S9qEhKErSFL0GTb6FSJ4_f%2BfQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dax Liniere]

Yes, better to avoid Teflon, though I recall that it only releases large amounts of toxic gasses if heated to 300*C.

Here's an article: https://www.nestandglow.com/life/teflon-dangers
There's one thing that's not mentioned in this article that's worth mentioning "Ceramic coatings, especially if sold outside North America, may contain a high lead concentration, so be sure to source from a reputable brand that's PFOA, lead, and cadmium-free."