Universal Air Ltd.

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Yuan

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Aug 5, 2011, 3:49:33 AM8/5/11
to London Hackspace
Hi London Hackspace,

I had the pleasure of speaking to some of you guys on IRC yesterday,
and you've suggested that I send a more formal introduction on the
mailing list.

My name is Yuan Gao (generally known online as Meseta), I'm a PhD
student in Engineering, my colleague Henry Fletcher is a Masters
student in Engineering, we've recently formed a company (Universal Air
Ltd.) which focuses on producing microcontroller products and
autonomous micro air vehicles (read: quadcopters) aimed at hobbyists
(and academia). We're big fans of the hacker/make movement, and we
are individually already very much involved with the community, but we
would like to involved the company as well. Website: http://www.universalair.co.uk/

One of the problems with being a two-man band is that we produce a LOT
of prototypes but don't have enough time to work on them all. For
example we've got several quadcopter frames sitting around not doing
anything, as well as various PCBs.

We'd really love to see these things being used in projects instead of
collecting dust, so we would like to offer London Hackspace some of
our prototypes if people want to do things with them.

I'd also like to mention our microcontroller dev board Forebrain, a 32-
bit ARM Cortex-M3 board clocked at 72MHz that fits on a breadboard,
this board was originally designed to control our quadcopters (along
with the Seraphim sensors package), but it has evolved into a very
capable development board in its own right. We have some production
Forebrain units that we would like to gift to London Hackspace members
interested in using them in projects.

So talking to you guys on IRC, people suggest that I come down to the
hackspace on a Tuesday, and bring along the stuff, so I'd like to ask
how much interest there is in the following:

1. quadcopter frame(s): these are aluminium frames only, designed to
be fitted with a certain type of motor. To get these flying, you'll
need: 2 pairs of counter-rotating props, 4 motors, 4 ESCs, a battery,
and some sort of microcontroller + IMU. Forebrain works great as the
microcontroller, but Seraphim, our IMU package is in prototyping
stages; I'll be doing a batch of prototypes soon, but I can't give
these away because they're expensive.

As for the props, motors, ESCs and battery, we don't have any of these
parts spare right now, but we do have a bulk discount with our
suppliers, so I can place an order for sets of these parts if anyone
is serious about flying the quad (but you'll still have to pay us at
the bulk rates for them, otherwise we'll go bankrupt). If there is
interest, we could maybe do a quadcopter workshop, or general
autonomous MAV workshop (it's quite easy to convert a RC aircraft into
an autonomous craft)

2. Forebrains: I have a few units that I would like to give away,
again if there is interest, we could do a Forebrain workshop.

I've got a few other miscellaneous PCBs, but I'll probably chat to
people about it when I meet you guys.

Hope to see you all soon.
Yuan Gao
Universal Air Ltd.

Tim Hutt

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Aug 5, 2011, 9:33:50 AM8/5/11
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On Aug 5, 2011 2:08 PM, "Yuan" <mes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd also like to mention our microcontroller dev board Forebrain, a 32-
> bit ARM Cortex-M3 board clocked at 72MHz that fits on a breadboard,
> this board was originally designed to control our quadcopters (along
> with the Seraphim sensors package), but it has evolved into a very
> capable development board in its own right. We have some production
> Forebrain units that we would like to gift to London Hackspace members
> interested in using them in projects.

I'm interested in these, and possibly the airframe, although I have already made a carbon fibre one (attached)...

For the control electronics I'm using Sparkfun's 9 DoF sensor stick, which gives you accelerometers, gyros and magnetometers over I2C. It's kind of expensive though. I was going to use it with an arduino but I'm not 100% sure it will be up to the task. How does your forebrain compare to an mbed ( http://mbed.org/ ), is the IMU on the same board, and what are you doing for comms?

I'd love to chat and see your stuff. I shall endeavour to be at the space on Tuesday.

Cheers,

Tim
2011-07-30 23.59.48.jpg

Yuan

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Aug 5, 2011, 10:57:55 AM8/5/11
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Hi Tim,

Long post coming up. (This happens when you ask me technical
questions).

The mbed uses the LPC1768, while Forebrain uses the LPC1343, these two
chips are from the same family of devices from NXP, the main
differences are that the LPC1768 is clocked at 100MHz, while
Forebrain's LPC1343 is clocked at 72MHz, and the mbed has additional
USB Host functionality, at least three UARTs, at least two I2C ports,
ethernet, I2S, and a bunch more stuff I can't recall off the top of my
head. Forebrain has no ethernet, one UART, one I2C, and USB Device
only.

In the end when we designed Forebrain, we felt that using the LPC1343
suited the product price point better. As a bonus it does have one
feature that the LPC17xx don't have, which is the USB/UART bootloader
built into the ROM, effectively making it unbrickable (as far as
messing up the bootloader and not having a JTAG programmer handy).
The LPC1769 does not have a bootloader in ROM, but I believe the mbed
is supplied with a software bootloader already flashed onto it (we
didn't want to go down this route because we didn't want to sit here
all day loading bootloaders). Also the LPC1768/9 has a minor
annoyance with weird pin numberings, they have 32-bit GPIO ports, but
not all the bits are available as pins! For example Port 0 bits 12,
13 and 14, and 31 don't have any pins!

A product update is not out of the question, we are looking into the
new ARM Cortex-M4 chips that are coming out soon, these are like the
M3, but have an M0 co-processor (asymmetric dual core), and hardware
floating point unit.

As for quadcopter control/IMU, we have the Seraphim board which is the
same size as Forebrain and stacks neatly on top of it (similar to
Arduino shields), it is a 9 DoF sensor (3-axis accel, gyro, magneto)
plus GPS, barometer, and an micro SD card slot. I think we're using
the same gyro and magneto IC as Sparkfun's 9 DoF. sensors and GPS
communicate over I2C, SD card communicates over SPI. We have just
gotten our DCM and PID control working for our test quad, it just
needs some tuning before it's flying.

Seraphim will cost about the same as Sparkfun's 9DoF sensor stick (no
guarantees though), but it does have the additional GPS (and antenna),
barometer and micro SD card slot.

Seraphim is currently prototype, with scheduled release in October
along with the full ROFL kit, I'm about to get some MK3 prototypes
made, so if people are interested in using Seraphim but can't wait
until October, I can just get a few more prototypes. Our MK2
prototypes worked beautifully, and we're only adding the magneto and
removing a differential pressure sensor from the design, so we're
confident that there are no problems with the MK3 design (we just want
to prototype one more time to make sure everything is exactly right
for production). Unfortunately, the sensor ICs and GPS modules are
expensive, I would have to get people to cover the cost of the
prototypes if they're interested in getting their hands on Seraphim.

More details on our page: http://www.universalair.co.uk/seraphim note
the pictures are MK1 and MK2 prototypes, some partially populated.

Currently we're communicating with the quad using a standard 4 (or 5)
channel RC transmitter and receiver, with Forebrain reading the PWMs.
We're still undecided on how our ROFL kits will work, but it looks
like we might sell one version that is supplied with a standard RC
receiver, and another version that is supplied with Hivebrain instead
of Forebrain (Hivebrain is Forebrain with a surface-mounted XBee ZB
2.4GHz module).

Hope this answers your questions.
We hope to see you probably the following Tuesday 16th Aug. (we want
some time to get our quadcopter tuned and flying properly before we
arrive).

With best regards,
Yuan


On Aug 5, 2:33 pm, Tim Hutt <tdh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Aug 5, 2011 2:08 PM, "Yuan" <mes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'd also like to mention our microcontroller dev board Forebrain, a 32-
> > bit ARM Cortex-M3 board clocked at 72MHz that fits on a breadboard,
> > this board was originally designed to control our quadcopters (along
> > with the Seraphim sensors package), but it has evolved into a very
> > capable development board in its own right. We have some production
> > Forebrain units that we would like to gift to London Hackspace members
> > interested in using them in projects.
>
> I'm interested in these, and possibly the airframe, although I have already
> made a carbon fibre one (attached)...
>
> For the control electronics I'm using Sparkfun's 9 DoF sensor stick, which
> gives you accelerometers, gyros and magnetometers over I2C. It's kind of
> expensive though. I was going to use it with an arduino but I'm not 100%
> sure it will be up to the task. How does your forebrain compare to an mbed
> (http://mbed.org/), is the IMU on the same board, and what are you doing
> for comms?
>
> I'd love to chat and see your stuff. I shall endeavour to be at the space on
> Tuesday.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Tim
>
>  2011-07-30 23.59.48.jpg
> 3768KViewDownload

asc

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Aug 6, 2011, 4:46:05 AM8/6/11
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Hello Yuan,

I am very interested in a frame and some the other bits and bobs. I
have been looking at getting in to a quadcopter these last few months
but it was pending the completion of another couple projects
completion. I will definitely like to meet up and chat when you come
in to the space.

I had planned on using an arduino or even a LPCxresso as a base with a
cheap gyro and a laser cut frame from acrylic, certainly not ideal but
I was going to give it all a shot until I got stuck trying to figure
out the which motors, size of propellers, battery and weight issues. :
(

Regards
-asc / Steve

Tim Hutt

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Aug 6, 2011, 5:43:27 AM8/6/11
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Lasercut acrylic does not work. I tried; it's too flexible, so you'll need a silly amount of it to stop the motors vibrating apart.

Yuan

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Aug 6, 2011, 5:02:12 PM8/6/11
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Hi Steve,

Yeah, I think we're looking at being at the hackspace on Tuesday 16th,
but not confirmed yet. We might do a MAV/UAV or quadcopter workshop
if people are interested where we can go over stuff like motor, and
prop selection.

I think you might be able to have a frame cut from acrylic, it should
be possible to design it for good stiffness. The ROFL frame for
example is made from laser cut 1.5mm aluminium, which on its own is
probably more flexible than acrylic, it's shape of the frame that
gives it the stiffness required. Something fun we want to do is to
try to fly a ROFL quadcopter frame made out of corrugated cardboard,
just to see if it's possible.

With best regards,
Yuan

Martin Klang

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Aug 6, 2011, 7:48:56 PM8/6/11
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I thought ROFL meant... never mind.

/m

Dirk-Willem van Gulik

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Aug 7, 2011, 12:41:52 PM8/7/11
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Have a look at materials like balsa, carbon-fibre plate or dense-foam. Acrylic and similar is rather elastic - so it does not dampen the vibrations of the motors. Plus it is rather heavy at the stiffness you need.

Dw.

Kal

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Aug 8, 2011, 7:45:07 AM8/8/11
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I just want to express my interest in this uav/quad copter/Rc stuff. I
would definitely attend a workshop if it happened.

Kal

Elliot Duffy

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Aug 8, 2011, 7:49:19 AM8/8/11
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I too would be interested in a workshop should one happen.

Regards,

Elliot

Yuan

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Aug 9, 2011, 9:26:45 PM8/9/11
to London Hackspace
Hi guys,

We'll be coming down to the Hackspace to meet and greet on Tuesday
evening (16th Aug), and we'd love to meet you all, we might bring
along our ROFL prototype for people to poke and prod (it's quite
stable, so we're happy to give a live demo if you have any safety
screens to hide behind), and we'll bring a few Forebrain units to give
to people interested in using them.

It seems like there's enough interest for a workshop on UAVs/
Quadcopters, when would people like this to happen? Looking at your
calendar for mutually good times, we're available either Sunday 21st,
or evening of Thursday 25th. How does that sound? And who shall I
contact if I would like to make things "official"?

Also, would we be able to video some or all of the workshop to put on
youtube? We would like to give as wide an audience access to it as
possible.

FYI, here's a shortlist of topics for the workshop I think we would
probably cover (let me know if there's anything specific you'd like us
to cover that we could try to accommodate):
- Introduction to UAVs in general
- Principle of operation of rotor- and fixed-wing UAVs
- Designing a quadcopter
- Selection of components (battery, ESCs, motors, props) for a
quadcopter
- Selection of microcontroller and sensors for a quadcopter
- Introduction to DCM
- Introduction to PID and tuning
- Using DCM and PID for stabilisation in quadcopters
- Using DCM and PID for stabilisation of fixed-wing craft
- Autonomous navigation with GPS

Quadcopters and UAVs are big topics, I don't think we'll have enough
time to cover everything in detail in one workshop. I think we'll aim
at providing enough information for people to have a good grasp of
what is needed to get a quad flying, or answer any questions people
have. Later on, there may be scope to do a hands-on workshop where we
bring a few quadcopter kits and guide people through getting it flying
for those interested in designing, or customising the code. For now
though we don't have enough full kits to go around, but we will still
bring frames and parts for people who are interested in building their
own.

With best regards, hope people aren't too affected by the riots,
looking forward to seeing you all next Tuesday,
Yuan Gao

On Aug 8, 12:49 pm, Elliot Duffy <eduff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I too would be interested in a workshop should one happen.
>
> Regards,
>
> Elliot

Yuan

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Aug 9, 2011, 9:31:31 PM8/9/11
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Oh P.S. I'd just like to share with you a sneak peak of something
exciting we were working on yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IffQxSo6G04

It's our experimental convertible VTOL, it uses the same Forebrain/
Seraphim electronics stack as ROFL, and we've actually managed to get
it flying in under an hour after by porting the code directly over
from ROFL with only minor alterations! We won't be selling a kit for
this, but hopefully it'll inspire people to build their own, and we'll
be able to support convertible VTOLs in our UAV code libraries.

Elliot West

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Aug 10, 2011, 3:48:57 AM8/10/11
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On 10 August 2011 02:26, Yuan <mes...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We'll be coming down to the Hackspace to meet and greet on Tuesday
> evening (16th Aug), and we'd love to meet you all, we might bring
> along our ROFL prototype for people to poke and prod (it's quite
> stable, so we're happy to give a live demo if you have any safety
> screens to hide behind), and we'll bring a few Forebrain units to give
> to people interested in using them.

Look forward to seeing you there

> It seems like there's enough interest for a workshop on UAVs/
> Quadcopters, when would people like this to happen?  Looking at your
> calendar for mutually good times, we're available either Sunday 21st,
> or evening of Thursday 25th.  How does that sound?  And who shall I
> contact if I would like to make things "official"?

I'm definitely interested in a workshop.

To make it official, follow the steps in our guide for running events:
http://wiki.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/Guides/Planning_an_event

You've already done the most important step - mailing our list :)

Cheers - Elliot.

wyan

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Aug 10, 2011, 3:52:14 AM8/10/11
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Definitely interested!

Tim Hutt

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Aug 10, 2011, 6:08:46 AM8/10/11
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Looks awesome. I also had this hybrid idea, and was disappointed to
discover it had already been done (and they're selling kits):

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jkg/quadshot-an-aerobatic-blend-of-rc-helis-and-planes

Nothing new under the sun... Anyway, I'm looking forward to meeting
you guys on Tuesday.

M

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Aug 10, 2011, 10:44:34 AM8/10/11
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Dito

--
>
++++++++++[>+>+++>++
+++++>++++++++++<<<<
-]>>>+++++++.>++++++
+++++.+++..---------
.++++++++++.<<+++.<.

Yuan

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Aug 10, 2011, 11:20:19 AM8/10/11
to London Hackspace
I have created the Wiki page for the workshop:
http://wiki.hackspace.org.uk/wiki/Workshops/Introduction_to_UAV
And a Doodle for selecting the best date: http://www.doodle.com/btr2kz57nayzx53h

Re: Quadshot
Yeah, we saw that, it's a really cool project. But just because it's
been done before, doesn't mean you should stop doing it! Do it
harder, better, stronger, faster (cheaper, smarter, quicker), and
learn something along the way. That's the spirit of hacking.

We work on our VTOL (it's actually a tilt-wing rather than hybrid)
because we want to be able to support anyone who wants to make their
own VTOL/tilt-wing by offer code libraries and code examples (all our
code released under open source, BSD license). And we encourage
everyone to go forth and hack.

With best regards,
Y



On Aug 10, 11:08 am, Tim Hutt <tdh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks awesome. I also had this hybrid idea, and was disappointed to
> discover it had already been done (and they're selling kits):
>
> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jkg/quadshot-an-aerobatic-blend-o...

Anish Mohammed

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Aug 10, 2011, 11:27:10 AM8/10/11
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Hi Yuan,
 I too would be interested. As of now I have quad ( quadframe) with apm and FY90q ( variants) and an AR-Drone. I would be keen to attend if it is on a weekend as I am out of the country during the week :(
regards
Anish

Earthshine

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Aug 10, 2011, 11:42:39 AM8/10/11
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I've always wanted to do my own UAV for aerial photography so i'd also
be very interested in this.

h4rrydog

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Aug 10, 2011, 11:42:51 AM8/10/11
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Same here! Definitely interested in the workshop.

phil jones

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Aug 11, 2011, 1:37:14 PM8/11/11
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I'm interested. Filling in doodle now.

phil

Anish Mohammed

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Aug 11, 2011, 4:46:40 PM8/11/11
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i would have been interested in a tilt rotor uav, i have seen rc version of v22 (http://www.rotormast.com/rm/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=61&Itemid=130) but havent seen one which is uav :-)

trandi

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Aug 11, 2011, 5:37:08 PM8/11/11
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Definitely interested too...

Here's my initial attempt at a quadcopter,
http://trandi.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/quadcopter-home-made/

that "kind of flies" after several months of work... maybe starting
from scratch with all frame, electronics and the code, was a little
bit too much for a first attempt ! :)

dan



On Aug 11, 9:46 pm, Anish Mohammed <anish.moham...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i would have been interested in a tilt rotor uav, i have seen rc version of
> v22 (http://www.rotormast.com/rm/index.php?option=com_content&view=article...)
> but
> havent seen one which is uav :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Tim Hutt <tdh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Looks awesome. I also had this hybrid idea, and was disappointed to
> > discover it had already been done (and they're selling kits):
>
> >http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jkg/quadshot-an-aerobatic-blend-o...

Dan W

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Aug 11, 2011, 6:28:45 PM8/11/11
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The workshop and what you're doing all sounds thoroughly excellent (I
have signalled my intentions on the doodle)

Dan

asc

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Aug 16, 2011, 7:47:38 AM8/16/11
to London Hackspace

> Yeah, I think we're looking at being at the hackspace on Tuesday 16th,
> but not confirmed yet.  We might do a MAV/UAV or quadcopter workshop
> if people are interested where we can go over stuff like motor, and
> prop selection.
>

Hello Yuan,

Will you and your colleague be coming tonight, if so what time
approximately?

-steve

Yuan

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Aug 16, 2011, 1:46:52 PM8/16/11
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Hey,
We're en-route right now, might be there hopefully at 8
Yuan

Andy Smith

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Aug 16, 2011, 2:24:39 PM8/16/11
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Awesome, I'm heading to the space in a few minutes, see you around 8.

 

Andy


 

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asc

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Aug 16, 2011, 5:33:59 PM8/16/11
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Excellent work Yuan and Henry it was great seeing your work and
chatting with you all. Much appreciated.

Looking forward to the work shop and seeing more of your work.

-Steve

h4rrydog

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Sep 5, 2011, 5:30:13 AM9/5/11
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Hi! I'm interested in the workshop as well. Took a look at the Doodle. Any idea when you will decide on a final date?

Ps. Your Talon vids on YouTube look awesome! Have you gotten the vehicle to fly in both modes yet?

Yuan

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Sep 5, 2011, 3:44:46 PM9/5/11
to London Hackspace
Hey,

Sorry for the long non-reply, busy working on new products and going
on holiday. Workshop is looking like the 24th or 25th, I'll get back
to you when we're sure.

Not much work on Talon recently, some new videos to be released soon
though

Yuan

Yuan

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Sep 7, 2011, 5:56:28 PM9/7/11
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Ok everybody, it is settled, we would like to hold the UAV Workshop on
the 24th of Sept from 10:00 to 14:00 (to avoid running into the
bitcoin event.

Would it be possible for someone to put this into the calendar?

I/we will update the Wiki page (if I remember where it went to) with
more information as we plan out the event.

See you all there,
Yuan

Andy Smith

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Sep 12, 2011, 7:41:59 AM9/12/11
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Hi, can someone grant me write access to the calendar so I can add this event on behalf of the Universal Air folks?

 

Cheers,
Andy


 

-----Original message-----
From: Yuan <mes...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed 07-09-2011 22:56
To: London Hackspace <london-h...@googlegroups.com>;
Subject: [london-hack-space] Re: Universal Air Ltd.

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Mark Steward

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Sep 12, 2011, 7:51:39 AM9/12/11
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Done.   Thanks,

Mark

Martin Dittus

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Sep 12, 2011, 9:55:02 AM9/12/11
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Andy,

could you leave some buffer time between the events?

I'm planning to send out invitations for the Bitcoin Weekend asap. Atm I don't yet have a sense of the size of the event, but it might become quite popular, and we'll need some time to set things up; we're already on a tight schedule for that Saturday. Getting loads of contributions.

m.

Yuan

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Sep 12, 2011, 6:32:16 PM9/12/11
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Hey,

We'll move things forward to 9.30 to 1.30, and we'll aim for a prompt
finish to give the Bitcoin event plenty of time. Can you update that
for us Andy or Mark?

I'm sorry about the unfortunate timings, we had been set on the 24th
when our doodle was being filled ( http://doodle.com/btr2kz57nayzx53h
) and at the time we weren't aware there would be a Bitcoin event.
But with two events that day, could be good fun.

Yuan

Anish Mohammed

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Sep 22, 2011, 9:27:19 AM9/22/11
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Hi all,
 was wondering if anyone had any idea of the numbers involved and topics planned to be covered tomorrow at UAV workshop.
regards
Anish

Yuan

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Sep 22, 2011, 9:37:05 AM9/22/11
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Hey,

Take a look at the Wiki: http://wiki.london.hackspace.org.uk/view/Workshops/Introduction_to_UAV
But if there's anything you want to cover, you can ask us on the day
I don't know how many people will be involved.

Yuan

h4rrydog

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Sep 23, 2011, 7:21:42 AM9/23/11
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Awesome! See you tomorrow. Looking forward to meeting you and learning about DIY UAVs.

Anish

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Sep 24, 2011, 1:18:15 PM9/24/11
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Hi Yuan and Henry,
Thanks very much for an awesome workshop on UAV. Wish someone did something similar earlier
Regards
Anish
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Yuan <mes...@gmail.com>
Sender: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 06:37:05
To: London Hackspace<london-h...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: london-h...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [london-hack-space] Re: Universal Air Ltd.

phil jones

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Sep 24, 2011, 3:41:44 PM9/24/11
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Yes. I want to echo the thanks. Was very interesting and informative.

phil

Yuan

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Sep 25, 2011, 11:57:01 AM9/25/11
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Hey guys, thanks for coming! And thanks for the opportunity as well.
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