zergau

[Pierre Abbat]

There's a sentence "ti'e la .uengas. zergau" in the Book. "zergau", by the
usual "-gau" rule, should mean "x1 makes x2 be a crime in x3's legal system".
Wouldn't "zertra" be a better word for "criminal"?

Pierre
--
Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen.

[Jonathan Jones]

That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for "politician".

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--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for "politician".

Sorry. "Legislator".
 

[Jorge Llambías]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for
>> "politician".
>
> Sorry. "Legislator".

I think "criminalize" is a better gloss for "zergau". For "legislator"
I would suggest "flafi'i" (or "xelfla"), since not all laws are about
crimes.

>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:16 AM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> There's a sentence "ti'e la .uengas. zergau" in the Book. "zergau", by
>>> the
>>> usual "-gau" rule, should mean "x1 makes x2 be a crime in x3's legal
>>> system".
>>> Wouldn't "zertra" be a better word for "criminal"?

Yes, or "zerzu'e".

This is a common mistake resulting from "gasnu" being misglossed as
"do" rather than "make".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

[la gleki]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:57:39 PM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for
>> "politician".
>
> Sorry. "Legislator".

I think "criminalize" is a better gloss for "zergau". For "legislator"
I would suggest "flafi'i" (or "xelfla"), since not all laws are about
crimes.

I always wondered why {zekri} had no place for the agent who commits the crime.

[Pierre Abbat]

On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:57:39 Jorge Llambías wrote:
> Yes, or "zerzu'e".

Yes, as long as the criminal has a motive. Someone who grabs a gun and shoots
people because his brain is messed up by drugs cu zertra gi'enai zerzu'e.

Who is Wenga, by the way? When I searched the Web years ago, I found a Nubian
song with the word "wenga" in its title, but no criminal named Wenga.

Pierre
--
Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.

[Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG]

la gleki wrote:
> On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:57:39 PM UTC+4, xorxes wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones
> <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau
> for
> >> "politician".
> >
> > Sorry. "Legislator".
>
> I think "criminalize" is a better gloss for "zergau". For "legislator"
> I would suggest "flafi'i" (or "xelfla"), since not all laws are about
> crimes.
>
>
> I always wondered why {zekri} had no place for the agent who commits the
> crime.

At the time, it was pointed out that not all crimes necessarily have
"agents" (depending on exactly what one means by "crime", of course).

The currently impending American political crisis involving the debt
limit provides one example. Congress has passed laws requiring the
spending of money for particular purposes. They also have passed a law
saying that the government can not exceed X dollars indebtedness. Since
the spending required exceeds available resources, at some point the
government will be in violation of one or both of these laws. But there
is no agent. It is merely an unlawful situation - a "crime".

Organizations and individuals can come into criminal situations through
failure to act, so they are hardly "agents" (though they may arguable be
"criminals"), and in some cases the unlawful state may arise despite no
one actually being responsible for that happening.

Note that in passing, I have implied multiple Lojban definitions of the
English word "criminal". There is an "agent of a crime", there is a
"person responsible for the crime occurring", there is "being an
unlawful state" or "being IN an unlawful state" (the former being an
abstraction, while the latter is a sumti within that abstraction). And
then there are a variety of possibilities involving the concept of "guilt".

zergau to me would probably be someone who is agentive in a crime
situation. But only if the place structure is appropriately worded.

lojbab
--
Bob LeChevalier loj...@lojban.org www.lojban.org
President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Jorge Llambías <jjlla...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for
>> "politician".
>
> Sorry. "Legislator".

I think "criminalize" is a better gloss for "zergau". For "legislator"
I would suggest "flafi'i" (or "xelfla"), since not all laws are about
crimes.

I was half-joking.
 

>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:16 AM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> There's a sentence "ti'e la .uengas. zergau" in the Book. "zergau", by
>>> the
>>> usual "-gau" rule, should mean "x1 makes x2 be a crime in x3's legal
>>> system".
>>> Wouldn't "zertra" be a better word for "criminal"?

Yes, or "zerzu'e".

This is a common mistake resulting from "gasnu" being misglossed as
"do" rather than "make".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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[MorphemeAddict]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for "politician".

Sorry. "Legislator".

Politician. Legislator. Criminal. Same thing. 

stevo

[Jonathan Jones]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:46 AM, MorphemeAddict <lyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for "politician".

Sorry. "Legislator".

Politician. Legislator. Criminal. Same thing. 

See? He got it!
 

[Stela Selckiku]

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:46 AM, MorphemeAddict <lyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com> wrote:

That would have the additional side benefit of freeing up zergau for "politician".

Sorry. "Legislator".

Politician. Legislator. Criminal. Same thing. 

See? He got it!
 

stevo

 

 .ie .i zo'o nai mi nelci lo bi'u nai se stidi smuni be zo zergau .i mi steci pensi lo si'o zekri gubni bo larcu me'e zoi .gy. graffiti .gy. .i lo pulji cu kansa lo larpre lo nu zbasu lo larcu bancu tcini .i cizra gi'e fasnu ku'i .i .ia cafne .i ro roi se bancu dansu pe'a mu'o