"turn on"

[djandus]

coi rodo

A while back I was trying to translate an appliance "turning on" and it was brought to my attention that there's not much agreement on the subject. After discussing the various hacks people have been using, and what it actually is supposed to mean, we ended up trying to come up with a word for "x1 performs its intended function/purpose x2" -- the word I eventually suggested was {zilpli}. This usage would imply that when "turn on" is used in a context that could be described as "begins to use", {pilno} could be used.

e.g. {.i mi co'a pilno lo ve tivni .i babo ri ca'o zilpli} could be "I turned on the TV. Afterwards, it remained on."

Other Lojban options had issues with metaphorical usage or not being general enough to discuss other states of "on-ness" -- tenses work very well with {zilpli}. It also describes appliances as tools that can operate without an operator, which I find very clean and simple.

Are there any objections to this, or shall I submit the word to jbovlaste with the gloss word "turn on" as in "performs intended function"?

Note that I also feel {zilpli} helps fill the void of describing a person having a "purpose" without a deity/creator/user. But that's philosophical, and besides the main point of submitting the word.

mu'o mi'e djos

[Pierre Abbat]

On Friday 17 August 2012 18:34:12 djandus wrote:
> coi rodo
>
> A while back I was trying to translate an appliance "turning on" and it was
> brought to my attention that there's not much agreement on the subject.
> After discussing the various hacks people have been using, and what it
> actually is supposed to mean, we ended up trying to come up with a word for
> "x1 performs its intended function/purpose x2" -- the word I eventually
> suggested was {zilpli}. This usage would imply that when "turn on" is used
> in a context that could be described as "begins to use", {pilno} could be
> used.
>
> e.g. {.i mi co'a pilno lo ve tivni .i babo ri ca'o zilpli} could be "I
> turned on the TV. Afterwards, it remained on."
> Other Lojban options had issues with metaphorical usage or not being
> general enough to discuss other states of "on-ness" -- tenses work very
> well with {zilpli}. It also describes appliances as tools that can operate
> without an operator, which I find very clean and simple.

I'd say "lo ve tivni cu tolcando". Computers these days, though, have various
states of idleness: CPU use is 0%, suspended, hibernating, and off. I'm not
sure how to distinguish those.

There's also "tolpo'u". Several days ago le mi skami cu tolcando gi'eku'i
spofu - something got corrupted in the filesystem and I booted a CD so that I
could install a patched kernel to fix it.

Pierre

--
When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates.
Já não percebe nada, já não percebe nada.

[djandus]

On Friday 17 August 2012 18:34:12 djandus wrote:
> we ended up trying to come up with a word for
> "x1 performs its intended function/purpose x2" -- the word I eventually
> suggested was {zilpli}.

So it's said, this is more than an "idleness" issue -- when whoever it was (tsani?) said we needed a word with the above definition, I felt certain there had to be a lojban word for it.

I'd say "lo ve tivni cu tolcando".

 Indeed, of the current Lojban usages for "turned on/working", {tolcando} was the best, IMO. However, there are some cases I would prefer {zilpli}. When my TV is turned on just to be on, I'd say {tolcando}, but when a computer turns itself on (or merely comes out of standby) to perform a scheduled task, {zilpli} seems more appropriate.

Computers these days, though, have various
states of idleness: CPU use is 0%, suspended, hibernating, and off. I'm not
sure how to distinguish those.

However we solve the "CPU use is ##%" issue should also be able to be used to describe a percentage of active cells in a creatures body. (Also, what's Lojban for CPU? Did that other thread about computer terms cover hardware?) Maybe {pi mu lo sambesna cu tolcando} for "Half of the processor is active." (Where {piro} and {pino} could be used for the extreme cases.)

Maybe something like {dicmu'ucando} for "idle with current" for "on standby" versus {dicyzuncando} for "idle without current" for "hibernate". (I have trouble describing electricity when the charge and its time derivative are given the same word. And when I can't find a word for being "still/unmoving" other than, I guess, {tolmu'u})

There's also "tolpo'u".

 That's a very important word to have on hand. ki'esai

[la .lindar.]

I like and use {tolcadgau} for agentive "turn on".

[Michael Turniansky]

  If this is still open for discussion, I'd prefer using sazri as the base gismu, because "pilno" is too broad. You can pilno things i.e. lo valsi that don't "turn on", whereas sazri has to be (outside metaphorical use) a cabra or minji, basically.

      --gejsypa

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[djandus]

Ah, thank you! I did not know of {sazri}. {zilsazri} makes a lot more sense for an operatorless "turn on".

I can imagine {zilsazri} with definition: x1 [apparatus/machine] is "on"/working, fullfilling its goal/use/function x2.

mu'o mi'e djos