fu'ivla gerna

[iesk]

ni'o zoi zoi. srpski .zoi na gerna drani fo la vlatai (to noi srana la jbofi'e toi)  .i mi sruma lodu'u na drani fo lo'e lojbo gerna  .i na djuno lodu'u ni'i makau na gendra  .i ma velcki pe'u  .i ki'e ciksi ja jarco be tu'a lu'e lo gerna javni sei .a'o mi jimpe

mu'o mi'e .iesk.

[Pierre Abbat]

.ei lo brivla cu vasru su'o re slaka poi na vasru lo slaka zunsna .a me'o .ybu
.i zoi zoi. srpski .zoi. vasru pa po'o karsna .i zoi zoi. srp .zoi. na se
kancu

mu'omi'e .pier.
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

[iesk]

.i ckire fi lo nu ciksi doi .pier.  .i mi na'e jundi tu'a lo su'o re slaka  .i mi jinvi lodu'u ji'a da nabmi sera'a lo zunsna linsi pe'a  .i mu'a zoi .lob. stsmla'u .lob. drani fo la vlatai ku .enai la .camxes.  .i zoi .lob. srpmla'u .lob. na go'i fo vy. .e cy.

ni'o nandu mi  .i mi na'e ta'e za'e cmaci pensi prenu  .i cinri ku'i

[Ian Johnson]

On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 7:38 AM, iesk <pa....@gmx.de> wrote:

  .i zoi .lob. srpmla'u .lob. na go'i fo vy. .e cy.

While I know what you meant, this doesn't say what you meant in either of the two common variations of {na}. CLL-na moves naku to the front; "standard idiom"-na amounts to a naku in the same place. In either case the negation scopes over the {.e}, which inverts it, resulting in "It's not true that ... for both V and C", i.e. "It's false that ...for at least one of V or C". You wanted either {.a} instead of {.e}, terminal {naku}, or (if you're into experimental cmavo) {na'ei} in the same place as your {na}.

.i mi xenru lo nu lo se cusku na srana lo se casnu .i mi'e la latro'a mu'o

[iesk]

.i .ie pe'i do drani .i .u'u malrarbau .i .ei mi morji fi le logji te ctuca .i ki'e do na xenru .e'o

mu'o

[Pierre Abbat]

On Saturday, January 19, 2013 04:38:49 iesk wrote:
> .i ckire fi lo nu ciksi doi .pier. .i mi na'e jundi tu'a lo su'o re slaka
> .i mi jinvi lodu'u ji'a da nabmi sera'a lo zunsna linsi pe'a .i mu'a zoi
> .lob. stsmla'u .lob. drani fo la vlatai ku .enai la .camxes. .i zoi .lob.
> srpmla'u .lob. na go'i fo vy. .e cy.

la .camxes. na curmi lo nu lo gunma be su'o vo zunsna cu krasi lo slaka tezu'e
lo nu rivbi lo nalseljimte porsi be fi lo zunsna bei tai zoi .lob.
stststststststs .lob. i zoi .lob. srpmla'u .lob. na valsi seltai ki'u le du'u
zoi .lob. rpm .lob. na ka'e se vasru lo krasi be lo brivla

mu'omi'e .pier.
--

I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.

[Michael Turniansky]

   Why do you have to resort to experimental cmavo?  na'e works just fine there.   Another possibility was "...lob. go'i vy na.enai cy" (or equivalently, "...lob. go'i genai vy ginai cy", both equivalent to the English  "neither V nor C")

    --gejyspa

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.

To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.

[Ian Johnson]

{na'e}, at least in my understanding of it, requires a scale. This is frequently nonsensical, including in this situation. {na'ei} is the contradictory negation NAhE.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.

Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
 
 

[Michael Turniansky]

  You don't think correctness (drani) is a scale?  I suggest, sir, that you are at least 95% incorrect in that assertion.

       --gejyspa

[Pierre Abbat]

On Monday, February 11, 2013 18:25:36 Ian Johnson wrote:
> {na'e}, at least in my understanding of it, requires a scale. This is
> frequently nonsensical, including in this situation. {na'ei} is the
> contradictory negation NAhE.

The caption of the drawing in the Book is "mi na'e lumci lo karce". A scale is
fairly obvious ("to'e lumci lo karce" would mean getting mud all over it), but
having an accident is not on the scale. Also, one can say "na'ebo le mlatu",
and the cat is not on a scale (unless the vet is weighing him).

Pierre
--
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

[Ian Johnson]

...Misremembered which selbri I had addressed in the first place. Yes, na'e would work there, but I think it would have somewhat different implications than were desired. He used contradictory negation in the first place.

[Michael Turniansky]

  I agree completely.  As I have asserted more than once, the use of the word "scalar" in re: na'e is misleading, since there basically infinite scales passing through any given brivla, just as there are infinite lines passing through a single point.  Re-read sections 3 and 4 of chapter 15 of the CLL.  Na'e basically just means "non-x"  "lo mlatu cu na'e gerku" is perfectly fine and sensible.  But in this particular case of drani, I didn't have the raise that argument which some take issue with, since drani can certainly be seen by all to have a scale.   Therefore, I did not.

                 --gejyspa