In preparing Polish-language training materials,
we want to demonstrate ( as opposed to just
'talk about') the difference between {x} and {'}.
It would be really useful to get some contributions
to our undrestanding of the pronunciation using real words.
So we would like to invite as many lojbanists as
possible to record and mail:
{trixexo} and {trixe'o}.
Please use Audacity (free and downloadable) so
we can compare the visual patterns as well as the
sounds.
ki'e
totus
totus
>
>----- Forwarded Message ----
>From: Jonathan Jones <eye...@gmail.com>
>To: A. PIEKARSKI <to...@rogers.com>
>Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 5:11:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
>
>I assume we send them directly to you?
>
>And in case you don't have a program that can access 7z archives: 7zip.org
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>>
>>
>
>
>--
>mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
>.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do
>zo'o
>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>
>
----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Lindar <lindar...@yahoo.com>
> To: lojban <loj...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 12:43:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
>
> posted on cinch my pronunciaton
http://www.cinchcast.com/lindarthebard
----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Stela Selckiku <selc...@gmail.com>
> To: loj...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 12:46:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 1:56 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <to...@rogers.com> wrote:
> >
> > {trixexo} and {trixe'o}.
>
> Here's me saying those:
> http://www.cinchcast.com/selckiku/101280
>
> Not that my pronunciation is always the best example. :)
>
> mi'e .telselkik. mu'o
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Oleksii Melnyk <lame...@gmail.com>
To: to...@rogers.com
Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 2:35:39 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
2010/10/11 A. PIEKARSKI <to...@rogers.com>
{trixexo} and {trixe'o}.
--
mu'o mi'e lex
----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Philip Newton <philip...@gmail.com>
> To: A. PIEKARSKI <to...@rogers.com>
> Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 3:34:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
>
> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 7:56 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <to...@rogers.com> wrote:
> > So we would like to invite as many lojbanists as
> > possible to record and mail:
> >
> > {trixexo} and {trixe'o}.
> >
> > Please use Audacity (free and downloadable) so
> > we can compare the visual patterns as well as the
> > sounds.
>
> Here's my attempt.
>
> Cheers,
> Philip
>
>
>----- Forwarded Message ----
>From: Luke Bergen <lukea...@gmail.com>
>To: to...@rogers.com
>Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 12:42:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
>
>Sorry it took so long to get around to this. I did the recording days ago but
>have been busy with work and forgot to convert to ogg and send it.
>
>
>
>What is the address for the lojban-pl list?
----- Original Message ----
> From: Krzysztof Sobolewski <jez...@interia.pl>
> To: loj...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 6:00:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
>
> Dnia czwartek, 14 października 2010 o 06:46:01 Stela Selckiku napisał(a):
> > Here's me saying those:
> > http://www.cinchcast.com/selckiku/101280
>
> I'm sorry but I still don't hear it. Are you sure that *you* can distinguish
>those sounds?
>
> I'm on the verge of declaring that this is the biggest ever mistake in the
>design of lojban. Not as much because it's difficult for someone from my
>particular cultural background ;) but because it's grossly inconsistent with the
>rest of the phonology. Take "r" for example - any rhotic sound is fine. Or "y".
>In light of this permissiveness I'm left to wonder how this thing with "x" and
>"'" came about.
>
> > Not that my pronunciation is always the best example. :)
>
> Could be a factor ;)
> --
> Ecce Jezuch
> "Can't hate me like I do, I know me better" - J. S. Clayden
>
----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Stela Selckiku <selc...@gmail.com>
> To: loj...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 6:34:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
>
> 2010/10/17 Krzysztof Sobolewski <jez...@interia.pl>:
> >
> > I'm sorry but I still don't hear it. Are you sure that *you* can
> > distinguish those sounds?
>
> Fairly! We could have someone record a mystery series of
> trixexo/trixe'o and then reveal which had been what after we take our
> guesses. That'd be fun.
>
> > I'm on the verge of declaring that this is the biggest ever
> > mistake in the design of lojban.
>
> There's a lot of competition. ;)
>
> mi'e .telselkik. mu'o
>
----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Lindar <lindar...@yahoo.com>
> To: lojban <loj...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 7:06:50 AM
> Subject: [lojban] Re: Challenging pronunciation
>
> I have better pronunciation than selkik. http://cinchcast.com/lindarthebard
> Check out mine. You should absolutely be able to hear the difference.
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Oleksii Melnyk <lame...@gmail.com>
To: loj...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 7:53:38 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Challenging pronunciation
As i understand, that is intentional, you should not hear the «'» sound:). I've got it that way: 1. make the voiced «x». 2. relax the muscles while saying it. 3. shorten it a bit.
--
mu'o mi'e lex
--
Z "y" nie chodzi o nic. Nasze polskie jest równie dobre jak to anglosaskie niewiadomoco ;)
> Równie dobrze można się oburzać na {l} i {r}, które są nierozróżnialne
> dla wielu Azjatów :)
Masz na myśli [r] (wibrujące), czy [ɹ]? W tym drugim przypadku trudno im się dziwić...
--
Ecce Jezuch
"All of us get lost in the darkness
Dreamers learn to steer by the stars
All of us do time in the gutter
Dreamers turn to look at the cars" - N. Peart
Dnia poniedziałek, 18 października 2010 o 12:06:54 Janek napisał(a):O co chodzi z {y}? To mi nadal sprawia trudność, w przeciwieństwie do {x} i {'}, które załapałem dość szybko.Z "y" nie chodzi o nic. Nasze polskie jest równie dobre jak to anglosaskie niewiadomoco ;)Równie dobrze można się oburzać na {l} i {r}, które są nierozróżnialne dla wielu Azjatów :)Masz na myśli [r] (wibrujące), czy [ɹ]? W tym drugim przypadku trudno im się dziwić...
Sęk w tym, że "y" nie ma żadnej konkurencji wśród innych głosek, nie ma z czym go pomylić. Tenże CLL 3.8 mówi: "This sound may be any non-Lojbanic vowel which is clearly separable by the listener from the Lojban vowels. Some possibilities are IPA [ɪ], [ɨ], [ʊ], or even [ʏ] (...)". To drugie to jest nasze "y". I czy to jest "nadmiarowy" bufor czy "oficjalny" łącznik, jak w {brodytce}, to jest, z tego co wiem, ten sam dźwięk.
Chociaż muszę zaznaczyć, że nie jestem specjalnie oficjalnym źródłem na ten temat ;)
> W każdym razie brzmi zupełnie inaczej niż polskie "y".
Nie tak bardzo inaczej. Możliwe, że ktoś kto nie uczył się nigdy obcego języka, mógłby ich nie rozróżnić.
--
Ecce Jezuch
"I'm the scum of the Earth, I'm the scum of the Earth,
I am the cancer, I am humanity" - R. Patrick
Mimo tego ze NIEMA {y} ani w angieslkim ani w polskim, dzwiek powinnien byc
latwy dla wszytkich.
Wystarczy lekko otworzyc usta, zrelaksowac wszystko dookola (usta, jezyk,
gardlo) i oddac dzwiek.
Kiedy w polskim ktos mowi 'lekko' powolnie, to co jest miedzy 'lek' i 'ko' jest
wlasnie {y}.
totus