{ja'e} vs {seri'a}, {semu'i} &c.

[mudri]

Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of the "because" modals in its place?

[Jonathan Jones]

Because ja'e isn't "because".

For example:

In 2008, the majority of electoral votes went to Obama, resulting in his becoming President of These United States.

ca lo li reki'obi detri ku so'e cu'acmi cu cuxna la.obamas. ja'e lo du'u ri binxo lo gugja'a be la mergu'e

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 11:34 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of the "because" modals in its place?

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mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

[tijlan]

On 2 November 2012 17:34, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone explain {ja'e} to me, and why I shouldn't use one of the "because" modals in its place?

{ja'e} comes from {jalge}, which says that x1 is an outcome of x2,
without specifying the nature of "because". {ja'e ___} refers to the
consequence; use {se ja'e ___} for the antecedent.

{ri'a}, {mu'i}, {ki'u}, {ni'i} ... are more specific. Also their x1 &
x2 are the inverse of {ja'e}'s; it's {ri'a ___}, not {se ri'a ___},
that refers to the antecedent.

You can replace {se ja'e} with a more specific modal:

lo bloti cu spofu se ja'e lo nu janli
The ship is broken, from (as a result of) the collision.

lo bloti cu spofu ri'a lo nu janli
The ship is broken, physically from (as a physical effect of) the collision.


mu'o

[mudri]

These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the second. So which more specific "therefore" would be used in the first answer's example?

[Jonathan Jones]

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 3:41 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

These two replies are contradictory, though I'm more convinced by the second.

No they aren't. His example is using {se ja'e}, whereas mine uses {ja'e}.

seja'e = "... results because of ..."

ja'e = "... resulting in ..."

What comes before {se ja'e} is a result of what comes after {se ja'e}. What comes before {ja'e} results in what comes after {ja'e}.
 

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[mudri]

Your first answer gave no new information? By the title of the thread, I implied that I knew that {ja'e} matched up to {seri'a}, {semu'i} and others.

[Jonathan Jones]

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 4:43 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

Your first answer gave no new information? By the title of the thread, I implied that I knew that {ja'e} matched up to {seri'a}, {semu'i} and others.

Still not contradictory to the other post.

Regardless, {ja'e} is not a because. {seja'e} is, but that's not what you were asking. And the reason to use {seja'e} vs. anything else is for the same reason to use nu vs. anything else- it's general. Use the others if you want to be more specific, use {seja'e} if you don't.
 

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[mudri]

I understand what you were saying now. It was not contradictory - I'll give you those points - but your example made {ja'e} sound distinct from each of {semu'i}, {seri'a}, {seki'u} and {seni'i}. So, to finish this off, which of the previous 4 clusters could you substitute in for the {ja'e} in your sentence?

[Jonathan Jones]

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 6:28 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

I understand what you were saying now. It was not contradictory - I'll give you those points - but your example made {ja'e} sound distinct from each of {semu'i}, {seri'a}, {seki'u} and {seni'i}. So, to finish this off, which of the previous 4 clusters could you substitute in for the {ja'e} in your sentence?

Going down the list, it is possible the following could also be used:

sebai
segau
seki'u
seni'i
 

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[Ian Johnson]

I think the confusion here is in regards to the extent to which {jalge} is causal. I will say that in my understanding, {jalge} is causal but vague.

mu'o mi'e la latro'a