The "xr" and "rx" pairs

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suke...@gmail.com

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Sep 12, 2017, 1:18:01 AM9/12/17
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coi

I have issues pronouncing the "xr" and "rx" pairs, such as in "pixra". I generally have to make a pause, as if it was "pix,ra". Is it correct?
Actually, if I pronounce it too quickly, it sounds like "pirra" or "pixxa"...

More generally speaking, the French 'r' (my mother tongue language) unfortunately sounds between the Lojban 'x' and 'r' sounds... So I guess pronouncing the 'r' the French way is a very bad idea! I actually pronounce it the Spanish way (so think about "pix,ra"...), not the English way. I know there is no absolute rule about the 'r' pronunciation (*), but what is your feeling about the most practical and most understandable way to pronounce 'r', "xr" and "rx" ?

Thank you!

(*): CLL says that "The letter “r” can be trilled, but doesn't have to be."

-- 
Sukender

Pierre Abbat

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Sep 12, 2017, 7:37:49 AM9/12/17
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On Monday, September 11, 2017 10:17:59 PM EDT suke...@gmail.com wrote:
> coi
>
> I have issues pronouncing the "xr" and "rx" pairs, such as in "pixra". I
> generally have to make a pause, as if it was "pix,ra". Is it correct?
> Actually, if I pronounce it too quickly, it sounds like "pirra" or "pixxa
> "...
>
> More generally speaking, the French 'r' (my mother tongue language)
> unfortunately sounds *between *the Lojban 'x' and 'r' sounds... So I guess
> pronouncing the 'r' the French way is a very bad idea! I actually pronounce
> it the Spanish way (so think about "pix,ra"...), not the English way. I
> know there is no *absolute* rule about the 'r' pronunciation (*), but what
> is your feeling about the most practical and most understandable way to
> pronounce 'r', "xr" and "rx" ?

I pronounce /r/ in both these combinations as a trill. I pronounce /xr/ as
overlapping /x/ and /r/, but /rx/ as /r/ followed by /x/ with no overlap. A
long string of them, as in "rirxrxrazdani rirxyxrazdani", gets interesting :)
I think that the way I should pronounce "rxrxr" is:
/r/: [r], like Spanish "rr"
/x/: [x] or [χ]
/r/: [ɝ], because it's syllabic
/xr/: simultaneous alveolar and uvular trill, with voicing turned on in the
middle.
But I may pronounce it as a long simultaneous trill with the voicing turned
off and on twice. (Hrazdan is a river in Armenia.)

Pierre
--
.i toljundi do .ibabo mi'afra tu'a do
.ibabo damba do .ibabo do jinga
.icu'u la ma'atman.

suke...@gmail.com

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Sep 18, 2017, 9:39:56 AM9/18/17
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Wow. Thanks for the answer. That frightens me, actually! My tongue is absolutely not used to pronounce that sounds, and thus it's a bit difficult. I'll try to improve my pronunciation...

-- 
Sukender

Mike S.

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Sep 18, 2017, 9:48:37 PM9/18/17
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On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 7:37 AM, Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org> wrote:
I pronounce /r/ in both these combinations as a trill. I pronounce /xr/ as
overlapping /x/ and /r/, but /rx/ as /r/ followed by /x/ with no overlap. A
long string of them, as in "rirxrxrazdani rirxyxrazdani", gets interesting :)

If anyone wants to get on Vocaroo and intelligibly say "rirxrxrazdani rirxyxrazdani" three times in a row, they will earn a small but permanent token of admiration from me.

-Mike

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