Relative phrases &c on {la} sumti

[mudri]

If a sumti prefixed with {la} (with either a selbri or cmene inside) has an associated relative clause/phrase or linked sumti, how much of these are part of the name, and how much are just extra information? There are situations where both are useful.

[Ian Johnson]

This depends on whether you're using a cmevla (not a cmene, ta'o; selbri names are cmene too) or a selbri name. With a selbri name things are clean: a relative clause before the ku is in the name, a relative clause after the ku is not. This does mean, somewhat annoyingly, that {la latro'a noi bebna} is "the one named "latro'a noi bebna"".  With a cmevla name, you can't attach a relative clause inside the name after the cmevla starts, so that {la .latros. noi bebna} attaches a relative clause to {la .latros.}. Note that {la noi bebna .latros.} is valid, and is "the one named "noi bebna latros"".

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:59 AM, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

If a sumti prefixed with {la} (with either a selbri or cmene inside) has an associated relative clause/phrase or linked sumti, how much of these are part of the name, and how much are just extra information? There are situations where both are useful.

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[mudri]

Thanks; that answers it. Except, what happens with linked sumti ({be})?

[Ian Johnson]

{la broda be ko'a be'o noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a be'o noi brode"". {lo broda be ko'a ku noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a" which incidentally brodes". Relative clauses attached to the relativized sumti themselves are still part of the name: {la broda be ko'a noi brode} is "the one named "broda be ko'a noi brode"", and does not assert that {ko'a brode}.

Does that answer your question? I'm not 100% sure I understand the original question.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban-beginners/-/RzMK4_VuGT0J.

[mudri]

Actually, I realise that it's kind of stupid trying to take the {be} outside the name.

[mudri]

UIs also: I recently said {la ju'oru'e .alis.}. Is that the correct way to say "Alice, I think"?

[Jacob Errington]

On 29 January 2013 15:02, mudri <jammya...@gmail.com> wrote:

UIs also: I recently said {la ju'oru'e .alis.}. Is that the correct way to say "Alice, I think"?

When it comes to UI, they should always reflect the speaker's feelings, regardless of what it is they're attaching to. So it's fine. Actually making the *name* "Alice I Think?" would be considerably more annoying if you wanted to use UI. :P

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o