About my name

[Daeldir]

Daeldir is not my real name (yes, you guessed right :-P). It's an alias I created from nothing when I was young.

However, in my head, Daeldir means something. I always associated those sounds with “walk beneath the moon”, or “walking in the moonlight” (google translate gave me that last one ;-)).

And I like the idea of having a meaningful name in lojban, like native americans do.

So, to train myself in speaking lojban, I tried to translate that meaning in lojban.

First, how I would explain this meaning in lojban:

{lo nu ma kau cnita lo lunra cu cadzu}
→ “The one (I know who) that is under the moon, walk”

Using a tanru:

{lunra cnita cadzu}
→ walk kind of (under kind of moon)
→ Something that walk, in an “under” maneer, and the “under” as something to do with the moon

Which would give the following lujvo:

{lurni'adzu}

Finally, while my name now has a meaning, I want it to be a name: it means something, but what it means is not what I am, it's just a label. So, I would turn it into a cmevla:

{.lurni'adzus.} or (which I prefer) {.lurni'adz.}

I didn't read the wave lessons all the way, yet. But I feel I can begin to express some meanings, I can “baby talk”.

The reason I post it there is that I want to “exercise” myself. I need someone that can criticize my work. Having the lessons is not sufficient to know if what I do, I do wrong.

The three question I'm wondering about are:

Is {lo nu ma kau cnita lo lunra cu cadzu} a good “explanation” of the meaning of my name?

Is {lurni'adzu} a valid lujvo, and is it ok to make a lujvo not for words, but to create “meaningful names”?

Finally, have you any suggestions for improving my sentences/words, keeping in mind I'm for now at a really low level in Lojban?

mu'o mi'e la .daeldir.

Or,

mu'o mi'e la .lurni'adz.

[Pierre Abbat]

On Sunday, June 02, 2013 19:51:11 Daeldir wrote:
> The three question I'm wondering about are:
>
> Is {lo nu ma kau cnita lo lunra cu cadzu} a good “explanation” of the
> meaning of my name?

It parses, but not the way you think. Events don't walk. I think you mean "lo
nu makau cu cnita be lo lunra be'o cadzu" or "lo nu makau cadzu ni'a lo
lunra".

> Is {lurni'adzu} a valid lujvo, and is it ok to make a lujvo not for words,
> but to create “meaningful names”?

It is valid, but to turn it into a cmevla, I'd say "lurni'acadz".

Pierre
--
sei do'anai mi'a djuno puze'e noroi nalselganse srera

[Jacob Errington]

On 2 June 2013 13:51, Daeldir <dae...@gmail.com> wrote:

Daeldir is not my real name (yes, you guessed right :-P). It's an alias I created from nothing when I was young.

However, in my head, Daeldir means something. I always associated those sounds with “walk beneath the moon”, or “walking in the moonlight” (google translate gave me that last one ;-)).

And I like the idea of having a meaningful name in lojban, like native americans do.

So, to train myself in speaking lojban, I tried to translate that meaning in lojban.

First, how I would explain this meaning in lojban:

{lo nu ma kau cnita lo lunra cu cadzu}
 → “The one (I know who) that is under the moon, walk”

Using a tanru:

{lunra cnita cadzu}
 → walk kind of (under kind of moon)
 → Something that walk, in an “under” maneer, and the “under” as something to do with the moon

Which would give the following lujvo:

{lurni'adzu}

Finally, while my name now has a meaning, I want it to be a name: it means something, but what it means is not what I am, it's just a label. So, I would turn it into a cmevla:

{.lurni'adzus.} or (which I prefer) {.lurni'adz.}

Using a cmevla is not necessary. I go by {tsani} in the Lojban community, and {tsani} is a gismu. As it is unlikely that {luni'adzu} could ever be defined to mean anything other than "walk beneath the moon", I would find it to be an acceptable name. Some (older) Lojbanists are of the opinion that names that are selbri are only nicknames, but many of the younger jbopre, who in many cases are more active than the older members, believe that selbri can be used on par with cmevla for true names.

That being said, I'd suggest you stick with the lujvo for your name as it more directly holds a meaning than {.lurni'acadz.} or other cmevla alternatives.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

[Daeldir]

Well, I followed that debate on the lojban mailing list (I'm subscribed, even if I don't attempt to understand everything, so that I am “in the bath” of the language). And I'd say I'm on the side of older lojbanists for this one :-)

While {lurni'acadzu} is kind of a description, it does not describe me “intemporally” (in which case we would use {lo}, anyway). It did describe me (maybe) at a time, but is now only used for it's label value. I don't take added consonant or missing vowel as an offense to my “name”, but more as an “officialization” of that description becoming a name.

It's true that I remove the meaning of the name, but it's easy to find it again. It's here, it just became less important.

… I did not express myself on that point on the lojban list, because I'm really new (not using {be} yet, heh!), and I won't take any position about that, as the language is not “mine” yet (“mine” in the sense “I speak it”, “I'm an actor of it's culture”, not that I own it in any way ;-)). But, well, as you brought the subject in the beginner list, here is my point of view.

[Daeldir]

I'm happy that I asked :-)

This kind of exchange help in learning.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:53:22 -0400
Pierre Abbat <ph...@bezitopo.org> wrote:

> On Sunday, June 02, 2013 19:51:11 Daeldir wrote:
> > The three question I'm wondering about are:
> >
> > Is {lo nu ma kau cnita lo lunra cu cadzu} a good “explanation” of the
> > meaning of my name?
>
> It parses, but not the way you think.

Hopefully, sentences I write parse. I'm helping myself with jbofihe to see if my sentences have _at least_ a correct structure.
(jbofihe from here: https://github.com/rc0/jbofihe)

> Events don't walk. I think you mean "lo nu makau cu cnita be lo lunra be'o cadzu" or "lo nu makau cadzu ni'a lo lunra".

“Events don't walk”… I laughed, good catch ! :-D

You've been warned that I did not yet read all the lessons, I now confess that I did not get to {be}, indeed. I read that lesson, now, to understand the correction… It's a little abstract, but with time to sink in, it will become more obvious for when I read that lesson again.

If I understand correctly, a more or less literal translation of {lo nu makau cu cnita be lo lunra be'o cadzu} would be:

The event of someone (I know who) that walk in a maneer "under the moon".

{cnita be lo lunra be'o cadzu} is a tanru, with {cadzu} modified by {cnita be lo lunra be'o}. Thanks to {be}, that last construct is considered like a selbri. So, {mi cnita lo lunra} and {mi cnita be lo lunra (be'o)} are the same, but the second makes {cnita be lo lunra (be'o)} able to be used in place of a selbri, am I right?

As for {lo nu makau cadzu ni'a lo lunra}, it would be:

The event of someone (I know who) that walk on under the moon.

That, I could have wrote with what I knew. I tried to use {ni'a}, but “{cadzu}: x1 walks on surface x2” throwed me away. I wanted to say “*I*'m under the moon and I walk”, while I could have said “That's *under* the moon that I walk”. Learning Lojban is not only learning how to say something, but how to express it differently, too! Or, better said, to search all the way to express that abstract thing that is in one mind, and pick the more efficient one.

> > Is {lurni'adzu} a valid lujvo, and is it ok to make a lujvo not for words,
> > but to create “meaningful names”?
>
> It is valid, but to turn it into a cmevla, I'd say "lurni'acadz".
>
> Pierre
> --
> sei do'anai mi'a djuno puze'e noroi nalselganse srera

As it is a name, I was going for the shortest one (we don't really like long names, and a lot of people laugh or feel sorry for guys named “Jean-Jacques-Pierre-Gaston-Emanuel” in my circle of relations, and find short nickname for them – it is more practical). That's why I used a lujvo instead of a tanru, too (I guess {la .lunras.cnitas.cadzus.} could be a cmevla). But {lurni'acadz} is not a lot longer, and when we remove the last letter of the lujvo, that version makes it easier to find again the original meaning than {lurni'adz} (“dz”? What was that?). I like it!

And about {la .lunras.cnitas.cadzus.}, and what la tsani says about not always using a cmevla:

If I want to use that entire tanru with {la}, how do I do ? Do I use {la lunra cnita cadzu ku}? (Oh, I tried in jbofihe, it says yes…)

.ki'edo
.i mu'omi'e la .daeldir.lurni'acadz.

[la arxokuna]

On Sunday, June 2, 2013 9:51:11 PM UTC+4, daeldir . wrote:

Daeldir is not my real name (yes, you guessed right :-P). It's an alias I created from nothing when I was young.

However, in my head, Daeldir means something. I always associated those sounds with “walk beneath the moon”, or “walking in the moonlight” (google translate gave me that last one ;-)).

And I like the idea of having a meaningful name in lojban, like native americans do.

So, to train myself in speaking lojban, I tried to translate that meaning in lojban.

First, how I would explain this meaning in lojban:

{lo nu ma kau cnita lo lunra cu cadzu}
 → “The one (I know who) that is under the moon, walk”

Using a tanru:

{lunra cnita cadzu}
 → walk kind of (under kind of moon)
 → Something that walk, in an “under” maneer, and the “under” as something to do with the moon

Which would give the following lujvo:

{lurni'adzu}

Finally, while my name now has a meaning, I want it to be a name: it means something, but what it means is not what I am, it's just a label. So, I would turn it into a cmevla:

{.lurni'adzus.} or (which I prefer) {.lurni'adz.}

I didn't read the wave lessons all the way, yet. But I feel I can begin to express some meanings, I can “baby talk”.

The reason I post it there is that I want to “exercise” myself. I need someone that can criticize my work. Having the lessons is not sufficient to know if what I do, I do wrong.

The three question I'm wondering about are:

Is {lo nu ma kau cnita lo lunra cu cadzu} a good “explanation” of the meaning of my name?

Is {lurni'adzu} a valid lujvo, and is it ok to make a lujvo not for words, but to create “meaningful names”?

{la lurni'adzu} can be a good name. Just don't forget to put {la} in front of it.

Just like my name is {la arxokuna} (Racoon), whereas {lo arxokuna} means "a racoon".

[Michael Turniansky]

On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Daeldir <dae...@gmail.com> wrote:

{cnita be lo lunra be'o cadzu} is a tanru, with {cadzu} modified by {cnita be lo lunra be'o}. Thanks to {be}, that last construct is considered like a selbri. So, {mi cnita lo lunra} and {mi cnita be lo lunra (be'o)} are the same, but the second makes {cnita be lo lunra (be'o)} able to be used in place of a selbri, am I right?

  Well, yes-and-no.  There is a slightly subtle difference between the two.  "mi cnita lo lunra" is "I am under the moon" whereas "mi cnita be lo lunra" is I am an under-the-moon'er.  That is to say, the first says you area member of the set of those who are under things, and specifically, it's the moon you are under.  The second says there is a set of things that are under the moon, and you are one of them.  Is it a distinction without much difference in the case at hand? Yes.  But as you say, it's important when you want to be able to use articles(gadri) like "lo", or as part of tanru.

                  --gejyspa

[jeniff...@gmail.com]

If you are looking name meaning, this website will be useful: http://www.babynology.com

[MystyrNile a]

Would "le cadzu ni'a lo lunra" work?

[Felipe Gonçalves Assis]

On 4 March 2014 23:44, MystyrNile a <mysty...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would "le cadzu ni'a lo lunra" work?

I guess you want {le cadzu be ni'a lo lunra}.

{le cadzu ni'a lo lunra} is a pair of terms, {le cadzu} and {ni'a lo lunra}, so, .e.g.

{le cadzu ni'a lo lunra cu sanga} -> "The walker sings under the moon"

{le cadzu be ni'a lo lunra cu sanga} -> "The under-the-moon-walker sings"

mu'o
mi'e .asiz.

[MystyrNile a]

Okay thanks, that makes sense now. I was confused when Camxes broke it up into two sumti.