"To have". Translation.

[gleki]

to have. How do you usually translate it? I thought of {tolclaxu} but what is your opinion?

Here are two basic meaning of "to have".

1.  (transitive) To possess, own, hold.

   I have a house and a car.

   Look what I have here — a frog I found on the street!

2. (transitive) To be related in some way to (with the object identifying the relationship).

   I have two sisters.

   The dog down the street has a lax owner.

[selpa'i]

Am 24.09.2012 18:05, schrieb gleki:

to have. How do you usually translate it? I thought of {tolclaxu}�but what is your opinion?

Here are two basic meaning of "to have".

1. �(transitive)�To�possess,�own,�hold.

   I�have�a house and a car.

   Look what I�have�here � a frog I found on the street!

2. (transitive)�To be�related�in some way to (with the object identifying the relationship).

   I�have�two sisters.

   The dog down the street�has�a lax owner.

There is no one-size-fits-all Lojban word for the English "to have", which has a multitude of different meanings. Therefore, in Lojban, you don't map "to have" to a word, but rather map each different meaning to a Lojban equivalent.

mi ponse lo zdani .e lo karce

I have a house and a car.

mi se mensi re da
I have two sisters.

mi do ba'o viska
I have seen you.

mi bilga lo nu cliva
I have to leave.

As you can see, you have to translate meaning, not words.

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

-- 
fi'o co'e ko'a ki'e soi la'e vei jo'i pe'o su'i by 
   lo nu lu tu'e ne zu'i zi'e noi toldi 
   nu'i li rau ke me dei to be zi'o ce'u du zo'e bu'a

[Pierre Abbat]

On Monday, September 24, 2012 09:05:53 gleki wrote:
> to have. How do you usually translate it? I thought of {tolclaxu} but what
> is your opinion?

"tolcau" is good for some senses. I'd say "mi jgari lo banfi" or "mi tolcau lo
banfi", but "le gerku be re'o le klaji cu se ponse lo lazni".

Pierre
--
sei do'anai mi'a djuno puze'e noroi nalselganse srera

[volcpitar]

Given what is said above how would you best say the following?:

1.  Do you have a pencil (on  you)?  (I might need to borrow one)

Lo do terci'a vi xu zasti?

2.  Do you have a car (with you today)?

Xu vi karce do?

3.  Do you have my book (in your possession)?  (I don't see it on the table where I left it.)

Xu do vi ponse lo mi cukta?

4.  Do you have a house or an apartment?

Do ge'i se zdadi'u gi kumyzda?

[Gleki Arxokuna]

2015-01-25 7:29 GMT+03:00 volcpitar <ap...@comcast.net>:

Given what is said above how would you best say the following?:

1.  Do you have a pencil (on  you)?  (I might need to borrow one)

Lo do terci'a vi xu zasti?

xu do vi ralte lo pinsi

2.  Do you have a car (with you today)?

Xu vi karce do?

xu do se kansa lo karce ca lo cabdei
 

3.  Do you have my book (in your possession)?  (I don't see it on the table where I left it.)

Xu do vi ponse lo mi cukta?

{ponse} is for legal possession. Usually {ralte} is again better in such situations.

4.  Do you have a house or an apartment?

Do ge'i se zdadi'u gi kumyzda?

{xu do ponse lo dinju} = Do you own a house?

lo kumyzda - apartment

As for attempts to fill in certain places they have their usage too:

xu do se zdani lo barda kumyzda

zu do se kumyzda lo barda

 = Do you live in a big apartment?

Of course, I translated your examples without trying to rework your own translations. 

lo se klani be lo se jinvi so'iroi zmadu lo se klani be lo jinvi

 

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[MorphemeAddict]

Is legal possession (ponse) the same thing as ownership? 

stevo

[Jorge Llambías]

On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 2:45 PM, MorphemeAddict <lyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is legal possession (ponse) the same thing as ownership? 

It depends on the legal system, but generally they are not the same thing: ownership is a right whereas possession is a fact. If you rent a house, you get possession but not ownership of the house. If you lose your wedding ring, you lose its possession, but not its ownership (at least for a while). If you buy an apartment in a building still under construction, you may get ownership before you get possession. The way "ponse" is defined, BTW, is closer to ownership than to possession.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

[volcpitar]

On Sunday, January 25, 2015 at 1:15:34 AM UTC-5, la gleki wrote:

2015-01-25 7:29 GMT+03:00 volcpitar <ap...@comcast.net>:

Given what is said above how would you best say the following?:

1.  Do you have a pencil (on  you)?  (I might need to borrow one)

Lo do terci'a vi xu zasti?

xu do vi ralte lo pinsi

2.  Do you have a car (with you today)?

Xu vi karce do?

xu do se kansa lo karce ca lo cabdei
 

3.  Do you have my book (in your possession)?  (I don't see it on the table where I left it.)

Xu do vi ponse lo mi cukta?

{ponse} is for legal possession. Usually {ralte} is again better in such situations.

4.  Do you have a house or an apartment?

Do ge'i se zdadi'u gi kumyzda?

{xu do ponse lo dinju} = Do you own a house?

lo kumyzda - apartment

As for attempts to fill in certain places they have their usage too:

xu do se zdani lo barda kumyzda

zu do se kumyzda lo barda

 = Do you live in a big apartment?

Of course, I translated your examples without trying to rework your own translations. 

lo se klani be lo se jinvi so'iroi zmadu lo se klani be lo jinvi

 

ki'e do sidju mi.  (Thanks for helping).  I hadn't realized that "ralte" had this meaning.


By the way, is there any appreciable difference in meaning between:


xu do ralte lo zdani?

and

xu do se zdani da?

[Ian Johnson]

{ralte} is about having something on your person. You can't {ralte} a typical {zdani} (except, for example, a cardboard box You can {ponse} a {zdani}, but this is rather different from {se zdani}-ing the {zdani}. For example, you might own a property that you rent out while residing elsewhere; then you {ponse} but do not {se zdani}. Conversely you might be the renter; then you {se zdani} but do not {ponse}.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

[Michael Turniansky]

On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 7:04 PM, volcpitar <ap...@comcast.net> wrote:

By the way, is there any appreciable difference in meaning between:


xu do ralte lo zdani?

and

xu do se zdani da?

  lo speni joi mi cu ponse lo mi'a zdani .i lo panzi be mi'a ku joi mi'a cu selzda ja ji'a xabju zy .i ku'i py na ponse zy

(My wife and I own our house.  The children, along with us, are the denizens of, and also dwell in it.  But they do not own it)

 

      --gejyspa