I am stuck working on a project.

[Nektarios Mallas]

Hello guys.
I know I must have done something stupid here but this is the problem.
Some how I pressed something and there are 3 tracks that are linked together. If I mute one for example the others are muted as well.
I must have created some group or sum stuck but I am unable to find it and clear those tracks.
Another unrelated thing but in the same project, some how I activate the Live Loops and for the life of me I don’t know how to turn this off.
I should be extremely careful when I press keys,, I know but obviously I didn’t do this on purpose.
Any help is welcome.

Nektarios.

[Dave Leo Baker]

It sounds like you have created a track stack, find one of the tracks and press command shift u.  Then before you do anything else, move focus between the available tracks so nothing is selected.

Make sure to save first, always save, then remember that under Files menu is Revert To and there lives the last few versions of your project unless you did a clean-up under File -> Project Settings, I only do that when I’m finished with an iteration of a tracks. 

So, command shift u will flatten the stack, then arrow up and down or otherwise move between tracks so not everything will be selected. 

Before doing this or anything drastic make sure to save.

If it doesn’t work, go File then Revert to and pick your last saved.

And when it does work, save again, so you know you’ve got it. This projects revisions stuff in Logic has saved me when working with sync libraries etc before, it’s one of those cool things. 

When you do revert though, all changes gets lost and what you reverted from is not saved, just other versions you have saved before. So if you make a mistake then revert, that mistake is gone as is anything between revert time and the saved project you picked.

I bet Steve as a tutorial on this somewhere also. 

Best,

Dave Leo Baker,
Your Spa Productions
Gentle rain for thirsty souls
https:artist.link/daveleobaker

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[Bruce Harrell]

Hi. I don't have any answers, but I sure sympathize. The sort of thing you are struggling with happens to me all the time. Very frustrating. From my experience, some solks won't have any sympathy for you, but I sure do.

On May 4, 2026, at 10:55 AM, Nektarios Mallas <nma...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Daniel Contreras]

yea you might have groups enabled. I believe the key command is shift G, but you might have to look it up.

[Nektarios Mallas]

Hello Bruce.
Although I am confused and frustrated right now I don’t think you are right about people helping here in this group.
I found answers to my questions here and the discord server.
I know that Logic Pro is a complex environment and some times is difficult for us to do the things we need but there are many people who work hard to make our lives a lot easier and we should be thankful for that.
Any way, my English language skills are limited to express my gratitude to the people on the group but I think you get the idea.

Regards. Nektarios.

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/40C3DB37-DB11-470B-8530-0256D65F503F%40gmail.com.

[Bruce Harrell]

Hi. I totally agree with you about all the people here who try to help, absolutely. Sorry I gave you the wrong impression. I saw you writing about things not working no matter what you tried and immediately sympathized because I've been there done that.

Glad you now have some leads. Good luck!

[Nektarios Mallas]

Hello.
Now that you mentioned searching for keystrokes, I am struggling with the new Pub format of the documentation.
How do you guys read the EPUB file effectively? The books app is horrible.
Is it possible to export this to an HTML document so that we can read it with a browser?

Thanks.

Nektarios.

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/597ABB7E-ED04-4101-9E5B-E83748D73D27%40gmail.com.

[TheOreoMonster]

Groups is possible
If these are audio tracks or MIDI tracks where you didn’t use seperate by note value or the new track with same instrument command then most likely disabling groups will solve the problem. I believe Shift G should toggle groups. However, if this is a MIDI instrument you separated by note value or used the new track with same instrument option, those will be grouped together in a similar way also and disabling groups won’t resolve that. From what I remember as it’s been a while since I dealt with that I think if you create a new software instrument track and copy over the region and instrument setting to the new software instrument track from the first track in the group of tracks then delete the the first track, they should all start working as individual tracks again. You can use Command Option C to copy the channel strip settings from the first track and then press Option Command Shift V to paste just the plug ins when you are focused on the new track. Copy and paste the region as per usual from the first track to the new software instrument track then try deleting the first track.
-T.O.M
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> On May 4, 2026, at 10:55 AM, Nektarios Mallas <nma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[TheOreoMonster]

Most likely not a track stack. Track Stacks would only mute all the tracks if you mute the track stack. Individual tracks in the track stack would still be able to be solo’ed or muted or adjusted separately from each other. 

It sounds like no matter which track is muted they all mute in this particular case.

-T.O.M
Interested in One On One Training? Want me to mix one of your songs and show you how? Want TO support me and get some bonus tutorials? Visit 
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To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/949BBC8C-EFCD-4B43-87A0-77F689D53EC5%40gmail.com.

[TheOreoMonster]

Try Thorium reader. I am investigating other formats that allows me to easily manage and edit the document but is equally as easy for others to access. I like the chapterize format of ePub and the fact that I can also include tutorials in the file with the text.
Some have reported using AI to convert it to HTML, so that could be worth a try.

-T.O.M
Interested in One On One Training? Want me to mix one of your songs and show you how? Want TO support me and get some bonus tutorials? Visit
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> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/49580F7E-D5A1-45D7-8D46-695B6FC9CF30%40gmail.com.

[Nektarios Mallas]

Hi Steve.
These are audio tracks.
So I was recording a voice track on track 4.
I was using undo and I was deleting regions and doing things like that.
At some point I must have pressed something and I linked tracks 5 and 6 along with track 4.
I also tried command shift up and down arrows to experiment with takes etc.
By the way, shift G does not disable groups it does something else I am not sure what.
Thanks for the help.

Nektarios.

> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/68215340-C740-4696-8223-C5EA255B8C36%40logic.band.

[TheOreoMonster]

Thanks for providing some more info, that helps troubleshooting. Are you using VO up /down to navigate or just navigating with up/down arrows? If VO up/down and you have takes its possible then that the take folder is open you can close it with option F.
Otherwise search your key commands in Logic to see what Enable/Disable Groups is mapped to. It shows Shift G for me which I believe is a Logic Default for the US key command, so its possible its something else on a non US keyboard or in your Key commands file.

-T.O.M
Interested in One On One Training? Want me to mix one of your songs and show you how? Want TO support me and get some bonus tutorials? Visit
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> To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/923F5BC3-CCA5-4860-B74A-7FE1551A8BD8%40gmail.com.

[David Eagle]

HI, the issue is that shift G is assigned to deactivate your groups, but in Logic Magician it’s set to the gain watcher. So you have to turn off Logic Magician first with control escape. You also have to remember to do this when setting up a group and naming it, otherwise you’re attempt to type a name will create all sorts of chaos as you activate various commands. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/923F5BC3-CCA5-4860-B74A-7FE1551A8BD8%40gmail.com.

--

David Eagle

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[David Eagle]

Out of interest, I just read a chapter of another book on my Mac, having never used Apple Books on the Mac before, except to try and read the LM documentation, and it was absolutely fine. I had no issues whatsoever. Unfortunately the Logic Magician documentation is quite a slog. I merely mean the way it’s presented in Apple Books; the actual content is great. It’s much easier to read on my phone.  ON the Mac, it keeps taking me out of the page I’m in, and some pages won’t read fully. Others start in the middle, and I have to VO and left arrow to get to the beginning, before often being unceremoniously dumped out of the page again. I really think an HTML file would make so much more sense. Or if that’s too onerous to do, a simple text file. This would make searching a lot easier. The audio tutorials could simply be provided as labeled links in an HTML document, or just as urls we could paste into Safari’s address bar. 

It’s such a great resource, it seems a shame to dilute its usefulness by using a format that seems designed to raise one’s blood pressure. My current system has been to make my own notes based on steve’s documentation in a text file, so that I can quickly get what I need.

With thanks. 

[TheOreoMonster]

Thanks for the feedback, and the comparison to another reading experience. I think I may have an idea why this maybe happening. I’ll investigate and see if I can’t make it better. 

-T.O.M
Interested in One On One Training? Want me to mix one of your songs and show you how? Want TO support me and get some bonus tutorials? Visit 
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To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/CAEuqf6%2BD8-XRtyGMf-4F3WK9uhbRBFcSNnBdnAq0dmrpZK3_8w%40mail.gmail.com.

[TheOreoMonster]

Hey David, 

When you get a chance, could you check the current version of the Documentation and let me know if it is now a similar reading experience to your other book?

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/0uwxqklzagfd3neqjbz4f/AGjGkeTIUcMS3-COQFZq37E?rlkey=nuxgle4lwfv533f35jxnq2rmk&dl=1

Thanks 

-T.O.M
Interested in One On One Training, Or a Free Getting Started With Logic Course? Want me to mix one of your songs and show you how? Want TO support me and get some bonus tutorials? Visit 

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On May 4, 2026, at 5:51 PM, 'David Eagle' via Logic Accessibility <logic-acc...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/CAEuqf6%2BD8-XRtyGMf-4F3WK9uhbRBFcSNnBdnAq0dmrpZK3_8w%40mail.gmail.com.

[David Eagle]

Hi Steve, I’ll give this a look at the weekend. Thanks. To be honest last week I turned on my Windows desktop after 6 weeks of cold turkey, went back on reaper and flew through finishing a load of mixes for an upcoming DJ set, as well as some other projects. And I fell in love. It made me appreciate how much I love Windows and Reaper, and I know this is partly because I’m just so used to it, but it did feel like coming home. I also very much enjoyed how easy it was to just do general computer things like using the Internet without running into accessibility issues every few seconds. I’m considering whether to keep the Mac or just sell it and cut my losses. When I returned to windows and Reaper, and had a bit of a play with Ableton, it made me ask myself what is the gap I am trying to fill by using a Mac and Logic. I wrote a lot more, but I’ve deleted. I can go into more details if anyone desires it. But anyway, I’ll give the documentation a try this weekend and report back. I’m very appreciative of the work you and Lucky have put into Logic Accessibility. I’m giving myself some time to decide whether I have need for a Mac at all, and whether I’d be more productive exclusively using Windows. Anyway, back over the weekend. Thanks again.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/17B008C5-F81C-445B-98EF-FCAFFF0969ED%40logic.band.

[Laid Civic]

Hey David, 

You know, any car will get you from point A to point B, but despite that fact, there are thousands of models, and groups of people who'd kill over particular model.

Daw's are just tools, different OS's are just different environments. You have a goal or work to do, so to know what you really like the best, you need to try different tools and environments, but after that it's all very very subjective.

Everything has its pros and cons, and it's just matter of finding which pros you like more, and which cons are easyer to tolerate. There's really no the best, only better for you.

You found yourself as home in windows, I'd feel like Alice in wonderland, you faced accessibility issues every few seconds, I rarely do. You see, all subjective lol.

However, generally speaking I'd suggest to keep mac just in case, as future of the windows isn't very bright at all. 

They lost many users after people found out all the security and privacy leaks windows 11 has, and after they finally admitted that it's true. Some manifacturers like asus, lenovo and hp even said that they won't put windows any more on their future laptop models, then linux instead.

In all honesty, probably nobody can predict what will happen with that, but it's good to be aware of those things and keep an eye on it.

In the other hand, I like to see the rise of linux, there's even special ubuntu version called ubuntu studio, which is specifficly tailored for video editors and audio producers. The linux future is definitely bright, especially after it got capable of running video games, which was always the strongest celling point of windows. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/CAEuqf6LwqV_ySx%3D74YrE%3DCppBdxAnwPz9btTm28Z4toXoge0Qw%40mail.gmail.com.

[David Eagle]

Interesting points, Lucky. I am very fascinated to hear how you'd struggle with accessibility in windows. I don't mean this in a combative way, it actually gives me hope that maybe I'm just missing something when it comes to the Mac. For me, the Windows experience is just so simple. Websites just load without issue. I don't need to change from Safari to Firefox or to chrome dependant on the task I want to achieve. chrome just works fine for everything, and to be honest, I'm absolutely fine with Microsoft Edge. I've just got into the habit with using Chrome on Windows. ON the Mac, if someone sends me a message in Facebook Messinger, it seems impossible to access the messages in safari. It just says Safari not responding when I try to interact with the table. In Firefox, I can't even get inside the table. In Google Chrome, I can actually access it reasonably well. But on Windows I can use any browser and NVda will just deal with it without issue. Also in every browser I've tried on the Mac, there are certain websites that will just move my focus away from where I was and back to the top of the screen. I've never experienced this on windows, but it happens quite a lot on the Mac.

It just seems so natural to use the up and down arrows and tab to do things on a computer. I can't understand the whole point of the interaction system.

In the Apple Music app on the Mac, to search for something you have to interact with the side bar and then find search. Then you have to stop interacting with the side bar, and interact with the toolbar and find the search field. Then you type in your search queery. Then you have to stop interacting, and find something called "collection" and interact with that. Then VoiceOver will read the name of the song, but not the name of the artist. To find the artist you have to interact with the song and VO right arrow to to the artist name. And then of course to move to the next song you need to stop interacting etc etc.

Compare that to windows. I simply tab or shift tab to the search field. Type in my queery and press enter. My focus is instantly placed on the list of results, and the arrows will read me the song, album and artist. Simple. It just feels like VoiceOver's philosophy is why press one button when twenty will do. Obviously I'm being a bit flippent and exagerating, but it can feel like that.

Selecting text in Google Chrome is almost impossible. I get a Facebook message, and I want to simply copy someone's name or address or email address, but I can't use shift and the arrow keys to slect the text. ON Windows if I want to select something, I just use shift and the arrow keys. Simple. With VoiceOver I have to use the copy last spoken phrase command and paste that into text edit and then edit my selection from there. Sometimes VO and return or VO command return will work to select in Chrome, but sometimes it just selects something completely different.

So yes, I just find that things work accessibly in windows, whereas I find myself having to constantly come up with work-arounds with VoiceOver.

I load my Gmail in Safari and I have to toggle VoiceOver off and then back on again before I can read the screen.

Anyway, sorry, this has gone rather off-topic, but I really am curious about all this, and fascinated that there are people out there who prefer Mac accessiblity to windows, because that's so different to my experience. But it's great to hear your side of the story and your opinions. Thanks for the considered response. I'm doing a festival DJ set next week, and I think the Mac might be the best fit for reliability. It's clearly a brilliant computer. If I was sighted, chances are windows wouldn't even register as an option, but when I use a Mac I just feel very blind, and when I use Windows I don't.

Thanks again for your thoughts. There's a lot for me to get my head around and I appreciate your input.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/524B2AF9-646B-4D8F-8B3C-B51F25034E2E%40gmail.com.

[TheOreoMonster]

Hey David,

I’ll echo what yourself and lucky stated already. Old habits die hard and familiarity is hard to beat. Because up/down arrows and Tab is what you known for so long in a flat review world, that is easy and makes sense to you. VoiceOver unlike windows screen readers doesn’t break screen layout  and thats where interacting can be powerful. However, if you try to approach that world from the same mindset of the flat review world, it would definitely feel like why bother with one key when 20 will do.

Things like VO F (VoiceOver search feature), or Command F that puts you in the search field in most apple apps drastically cut down on the 20 keys you reference and arguably is less key commands than shift tabbing a few times to search. VO I can be another useful feature of VoiceOver along with VO J, or VO Shift J to get from one area to a connected area. Not to mention Tab works more than people realize on Mac OS and the single key quick  navigation I highlighted in a recent tutorial.

I ditched the gmail web interface a long time ago after discovering apple mail shortly after getting a Mac. By comparison I find the gmail web interface clunky personally even on windows where I used it for years in the mobile  version on a desktop browser. That being said, arguably its still probably one of the best web mail interfaces from  an  usability and accessibility stand point. 

Browser wise, I have not found any issues using chrome or Firefox. Admittedly I still use Safari a lot more but thats more due to a lot of things syncing and just working across devices for me. Yes I know I can set up chrome or Firefox for that as well, but well as I stated earlier old habits die hard. So I wonder here if some of it is approach or settings. Things like quick nav being on when it should be off, etc. among some other things.

I could go on about the different user experiences but I’ll say this, I think it’s great that you are aware enough to ask if you are missing something or not. Most just assume it’s needlessly complicated and don’t bother trying to figure if it really is or are they missing something. The question however is, at this stage of your life, do you want to take the time to learn and figure out these things or do you  want to get on with the music making and skip the learning and adjustment time of a new environment and platform. If you told me 20 years ago we’d have our choice of powerful DAWs on multiple Operating Systems, I am not sure I would of believed you at all, but that is the reality of the world we live in today. 

If you choose to stay and learn the platform, you don’t have to go it alone and try to figure out things on your own. There are plenty of resources to help with the transition, the least of which is the logicBand discord server where you  can post about a lot more than just Logic Magician questions. Just this weekend on there a few of us were discussing our transition to the Mac and how we found it coincidentally enough.

And of course #ShamelessPlug for the new Blind Mac Pro channel, though it’s early days there at the moment.

Https://www.youtube.com/@theblindmacpro

-T.O.M
Interested in One On One Training, Or a Free Getting Started With Logic Course? Want me to mix one of your songs and show you how? Want TO support me and get some bonus tutorials? Visit 
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To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/CAEuqf6%2BCChrAVxYdxFpbUwVPsunVMcLBqNi_KrtT5EpAJPFK2Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Laid Civic]

Honestly I fully get you there. You sound like me when I started using mac lol. I started lm project because I hated interacting with things.

Also, I didn't say I'd struggle with accessibility on windows, I had the workflow in mind when I said that I'd feel like Alice in wonderland on windows.

I fully understand, when you're switching from windows to mac it may be frustrating. Also, you were probably windows user for all of your life where you use mac for months, it's hard to compare those things.

I don't think you're saying some of it combatively it's fine. Even If you do, I wouldn't care, as it's really personal preference, and there's no sense in arguing about these things really.  You have power users both in mac and windows, and professionals in warious fields using both mac and windows.

Look, I used windows since I was a child and all the way until 2019 when I switched to mac, and  I can say with certainty that simply there's no best solution for us. Depending on what you do, depending on workflow you prefer, you'll choose one or the other, but challenges exist in both sides. On third as well, as we shouldn't forget linux, which is amazing in many ways, but also has some of its own challenges.

I was frustrated similar to you when I started using mac, but all the pros of macs for me were worth of time and effort to learn it all properly, and now when I compare all that I do on mac versus doing it all on windows, including every day use and professional work, mac is just easier, faster, and better for me.

For you maybe, the oposite can be true, and the best part is that we are both right.

Even that's not all, if something goes fully wrong on mac, I can reinstall system without any sighted help or special tools to have some speech feedback,  I should never care about expired driver and what not, I'm not forced to accept some stoopid updates which break everything, I'm not forced to anything really. Also, most issues on mac if you get some in first place, get fixed by restarting machine, because mac OS is just linux deep inside lol.

Seriously though, I could summarize my windows expirience to one word: frustration. On mac, it's almost piece lol, as there's no perfect solution. 

For you, windows felt as home partially because you didn't have to learn anything there for sure, where you're still learning mac. 

Generally speaking, I'd say it's worth learning it, but who am I to tell you what to use. 

The fact is, you can be power user in both systems. Mac probably takes a bit more time to grasp everything  fully, but in my case it was absolutely worth it, and I'm not going back.

Ah yes, on tab and shift+tab behaviour, you can use that with voiceover too, I'm surprised that you haven't discovered it yet. Also, you should remind your self that you shouldn't really use VO keys and arrow keys for navigation only all the time, use tab and shift tab and it will work just fine in many occasions, use item chooser to quickly jump to things, use all the voiceover navigation keys for quick navigation like VO keys + J to quickly jump to scrollAreas or tables etc. You really don't have to interact with everything, although yeah, it may seem like that when you're just starting with mac.

On actual screen readers, NVDA is developed by blind people if I'm not mistaken, which is absolutely amazing, as developers directly can work on things that frustrate blind folks, where voiceover is built-in tool developped by apple, and probably isn't in highest priority. 

In any case, there's lots of space for improvement everywhere, and honestly I'd like to see more discussions on this topic, but actual discussions not arguments. I always say, we'll get what we ask for.

It's certainly easier to discuss these things live rather then through messages so next time we have some live sessions in discord, come over and everybody will share something that can be useful, so who knows maybe you change your mind after all lol.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/CAEuqf6%2BCChrAVxYdxFpbUwVPsunVMcLBqNi_KrtT5EpAJPFK2Q%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bruce Harrell]

I'm laughing.  What Steve says is too true.  Even more so for me right now.  I just bought a Kinesis Advantage360 split keyboard with an entirely bizarre key layout.  I mean, It arrived a few days ago, and I'm still saying, "now where did they put that comma key?"

It all settles in, though.  Learning curve and all that.

Enjoy!

Bruce

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/24A29CC5-06D6-4767-85DC-C10A78BB0851%40logic.band.

[David Eagle]

Thanks so much for these wonderful responses. This a very quick response as I'm on the move,  typing on the Iphone on-screen keyboard. I'll persist with the Mac  , but will use it in addition to Windows, as I think then I can have the best of both worlds, plus it is amazing to be able to separate stems in a mere 3 seconds in Logic in seemingly very high quality, whereas it takes about 20 minutes on my Windows desktop with Ableton, with slightly less quality. I'll re-read through you excellent tips when I next turn on the Mac. Maybe I need to experiment with turning off mouse cursor following o cursor when using Safari. I know I can tab and shift tab on Mac, but I' not sure that was helping in Apple Music. But I'll continue to explore. And yes, a Discord chat about all this would be very welcome. Thanks again for taking the time to respond so usefully and comprehensively. Chat soon.

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Jun 2026, at 20:17, Bruce Harrell <bbh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm laughing.  What Steve says is too true.  Even more so for me right now.  I just bought a Kinesis Advantage360 split keyboard with an entirely bizarre key layout.  I mean, It arrived a few days ago, and I'm still saying, "now where did they put that comma key?"

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/18C67DBA-591A-4329-AF44-0066EFC501CE%40gmail.com.

[John Isige]

Here are my two big Mac tips.

1. Ignore Windows. Just assume Mac is an alien world. Imagine it has an interface where you have to do dance steps or something, if it helps. The big thing people run into isn't just the habits part, where you've been doing stuff for twenty years, so it feels very familiar. It's also that you want it to work that way, that it's what you expect to happen.

2. Voiceover and the arrow keys. The other big thing I hear from people switching to Mac is, oh tab needs to work here but it doesn't, oh I can't remember when I use tab or the arrows or whatever. Voiceover and the arrow keys work, all the time.

3. I know I said two, but consider this a sub-tip of 2. You'll thank me. Caps lock as Voiceover modifier. It wonders me how many people complain about how you have to press twelve million keys at once, but then you find out they're still using, is it ctrl-option? I don't even remember what the two key version is anymore. Use caps lock. Even if you don't use it exclusively, per The Oreo Monster's recommendation in the getting started course, you will simplify your life immensely.

These tips are coming from somebody who tried the Mac twice, and went back to Windows. About two years ago now I bought a base Mac Mini, because I wanted to try Garage Band, Logic Pro really, but I started with GB. I made myself use nothing but the Mac for the return period, a few weeks I think, maybe a month maximum. Other than briefly using Windows to copy stuff over to the Mac and reset that laptop for sale, and a virtual machine on the Mac for gaming, I've been using the Mac ever since.

While I'm writing a novel, apparently, two more things.

  

1. You can use Reaper and Ableton on the Mac. That's why I wanted to try it, because I knew if I liked Logic, I'd still have access to everything else.

2. If you have iOS and a Bluetooth keyboard, a lot of the commands and the way you navigate and such is pretty similar. So if it's harder for you to tackle the Mac because it's a computer, try using your phone with a Bluetooth keyboard and Voiceover. You can't really expect the phone to work like Windows, because it really is pretty different.

The big thing that helped me with the Mac is almost thinking of it like a phone. What I mean is, I really tried to let go of expecting things to be a certain way, and just went, "OK, how do I do X on the Mac"? Then you learn that, and try it a bunch of times. See if you get used to it. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. There are things I know you can do on the phone that I don't, because they're just easier somewhere else. I'm not saying this is some sort of magic cure that will make you love a Mac.

I'm saying this is what got me past "this is so weird and frustrating", which happened twice over a period of years, to actually using the Mac exclusively. If you just assume there's a Mac way of doing things, and that's probably going to be different, that is, IMO, half the battle. Then it's less frustrating, and you're just learning something entirely new, and seeing if it's a way of working you can deal with or not.

There are still a few things I miss from Windows here and there, I'm not gonna lie. But I can get all my daily stuff done on the Mac just fine, and I get awesome stuff like Logic, a fully-featured accessible DAW. By fully-featured I'm not necessarily saying Reaper or something else isn't, but with Logic you get instruments and effects and such built right in, you don't have to go chasing them down, like you might with Reaper. Plus, like I said, you still have access to Reaper and Ableton. I don't feel slowed down by the Mac or anything like that. And I used Windows almost exclusively from 95 to 11, and MS DOS before that. So I had *a lot* of accumulated habits built up!

There are my thoughts on getting to grips with the Mac, for whatever they're worth. Hope they help somebody, at least a little bit.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/88208443-43B5-4DA4-A794-80FCDF0B373F%40googlemail.com.

[David Eagle]

Hi Steve and John. Steve, I think the new documentation reads better. I’ve just given it a cursory glance. Commercial books seem to automatically move to the next page when reading with VoiceOver, whereas this documentation requires you to activate next page each time. I personally feel that an HTML webpage is a good option, as you can skip to chapters by headings, and also select bits of text that you might want to copy and paste into your own notes. I don’t think it’s possible for me to copy text from this EPub book. For this reason, I read your documentation and then typed up my own notes myself, and that’s what I started referring to because it was so much easier to search for something in Text Edit than in Apple Books. But I think, yes, this does read better. Thanks.

Thanks for your comments, John. Much appreciated. Yes, I’ve been using capslock as my VO key. I know I can install Ableton on the Mac, and probably will do at some point. Weirdly I turned on the Mac today after not touching it for a week, and everything has largely been working just fine. Websites have been playing ball, and even Facebook Messenger worked, where as before it would instantly crash Safari. So I don’t know whether Safari or VoiceOver has been updated in the last week, but things are working a lot better than they were a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks also for the latest Mac tips video, Steve.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/1E9061F0-ED3A-4103-B957-978A48A9954D%40tds.net.

[TheOreoMonster]

Interesting, it does automatically go to the next page for me like it does when reading commercial books, Thats strange that it doesn't for  you, and I’l try to look into that.

As I stated before the problem with HTML is editing, having to use search or find and replace to find sections  in editing is more and more tedious as a document grows. This is much easier to edit as I can just jump to a particular chapter and start editing, no searching or find and replace hoops to jump through. If I want to re-arrange the book, the table of contents automatically gets re-arranged also, I don’t have to then manually re-order the list of links passing as a table of contents like I would have to do in HTML.  It really has been a breeze and an eye opener for me personally working this way. I do wish for reading it to be as pleasant of an experience as authoring it has been.

The interesting thing is everyone is asking for a HTML or alternative document format because they don’t want to use the same search tools to jump  around an  ePub document, but doesn’t understand that’s the reason why I do not want to manage authoring and editing this as a native HTML document, which is how it started it’s life.

Ideally I am trying to find a system that makes this massive and growing document easy to maintain and edit, while providing it in formats useful to everyone. A Text file is the one format I get asked for the most even though it’s an incredibly inefficient format for both authoring and reading/managing large amounts of text. But at one point it was the easiest to access and a lot of people still seem to be there even though technology and accessibility has moved on. As has been the theme of this email thread a few times now, old habits die hard. 

HTML makes a lot of sense and that’s a format I am game to return to. I am sure there is a tool that can convert ePub to HTML but it’s something I have not had time to investigate, let alone test. At the very least, I am sure it’s a task for AI, but thats still something I haven’t investigated much yet either. 

If anyone has ideas on where and how or a tool to check out let me know.  

Regarding ePub, I tried it as its a format that supports not only links both internally to other parts of the document but externally as well  as embedding tutorial content and allow for taking notes all self contained In a simple format with everything available offline. As this is my first attempt there are some growing pains with getting the formatting and etc right. HTML is the next closest thing so definitely will try to land this there as stated above.

Also, please understand non of this is intended to be combative or etc, but I am hoping to bring clarity and understanding to the difficulty in finding and ideal option for efficiently managing/authoring/editing a large living and ever changing document while distributing it in a format or formats that are equally as efficient for those reading and consuming the information to utilize. 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/1E9D3A43-ECD8-4C44-9301-1CC793E5F2FB%40googlemail.com.

[Dave Leo Baker]

I will try loading the epub book in Thorium Reader. I just switched to using Thorium for a couple Bookshare books I use for my Druidic studies, and once you have the book opened in Thorium you can read with quick keys. I don't have the link handy but you can look up Thorium Reader and find it. It's free and supports epub and PDF among other formats. 

I like it because it's searchable with VO-F, and also I can jump by section or subsection by headings. I've just gotten it and so am no expert on it, but found it easy to switch between the Trees, the Gods and the Festivals in my Druid studies book, I'll look at Logic Magician's book in a couple days when I get time. Lm's documentation is so well laid out though, that Thorium is going to do really well with it I think. If you're having trouble with iBooks, I'd google Thorium. So far  for me it's been worth spending time with, but I've had it for one day. 

Dave

On Jun 13, 2026, at 11:02 AM, TheOreoMonster <theoreo...@logic.band> wrote:

Interesting, it does automatically go to the next page for me like it does when reading commercial books, Thats strange that it doesn't for  you, and I’l try to look into that.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/5BBD451A-2CDC-43F7-87ED-7F16A8F80F94%40logic.band.

[TheOreoMonster]

Thorium looks good. I played around with if a little as well. Good to know about VO F. I should see if command F works for the search field like it does in apple apps as well.  Another good option as it has the notaking and highlighting functionality I mentioned in my last message as well if memory serves correct.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/87051124-38B5-40B3-A4FC-B73B7BE95388%40gmail.com.

[David Eagle]

Hi steve, sorry for the delayed reply. All very valid points you raise, and it does seem like there are plenty of tools to convert EPUB to HTML or text after the fact, so that can either be done by each individual user, or potentially by one of us and then shared with the group. Apparently it can be done through the terminal, but I just searched for an online  tool.  My personal HTML conversion has worked pretty well, but the links don’t take me directly to the chapters, but I think this could probably be fixed easily enough if I find myself with a bit of time. However, the EPUB file seems pretty straightforward to read, and others have suggested different EPUB readers that might yield an even better experience.

ON positive Mac-related news. I connected my DJ controller today, and everything instantly worked perfectly and after a day’s use, hasn’t crashed, buffered or glitched once. So maybe the Mac wasn’t as wreckless a purchase as I was starting to think it was. Then again it did take me half an hour to try and copy the address of a folder path, which is very easy on Windows, but completely eluded me on the Mac. 

Anyway, must dash. Thanks very much.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/41EC4B97-A555-48AB-8129-80409B0D8872%40logic.band.

[TheOreoMonster]

Yeah I did a cursory look after my email a few days ago and saw that there are a few web  based tools that claim to do it, Also in my research the terminal was  mentioned but it seemed it doesn’t maintain linking etc. If one doesn’t care and just want to read the individual chapters as HTML files, just rename the .epub to.zip and unzip it. Which I am concerned is basically what some of these web converters are doing and then dumping it into one file which is probably why the linking doesn’t work.

I know on iOS there are a lot of book reading options and some of them will most likely side load and run on an apple silicon Mac without issues though they say they aren’t tested for it. So there are plenty of options to explore if we are willing to try some new options to see if something can be better than what we already know of.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/logic-accessibility/716CA136-3C18-47CA-ADC0-511BB49604E0%40googlemail.com.