Setting a velocity curve for keyboard.

[John Isige]

Hi all.

I know you can do this for individual instruments, e.g. Pianoteq, at least, I think you can. I know you can also do this on some hardware keyboards.

Can you set a velocity curve in Logic? If you can, can you set it up so it's a default whenever you load a software instrument?

I'm used to things like organ, where there is no velocity. Obviously I want velocity for stuff like piano, but I feel like you really have to hammer the keys to get full velocity. It hurts my fingers and forearms after a while. I'm sure there's piano technique to deal with this but for one thing, I'm not playing piano, I'm on synth-style or semi-weighted keys at the most, and I've also had hand and forearm issues in the past.

So I just don't see a need to have to put this much effort into getting full velocity. I'm guessing the default is set up for weighted keys, which I'm not using. I'm actually really interested in historical keyboard technique, pre-piano and early piano stuff, e.g. clavichord, harpsichord, where a lot more comes from the fingers, not the forearm like piano. This is because, as I've said, I'm playing much lighter keys than piano. So I shouldn't have to learn full-bore weighted key technique. Though I've never gotten to play a historical keyboard instrument, I'd think synth and semi-weighted keys are a lot closer to their key response than piano, which is why I think it should apply.

I could, of course, just stick to instruments with no velocity, like organs and harpsichords, when they're done right of course, some plugins add velocity, sadly. But I'm fine with dynamics, I just don't feel the need to slam the hell out of the instrument to get there. Since some keyboards allow you to set this in hardware and some don't, and even if they do it's mostly inaccessible to us, I figure doing it in Logic makes the most sense, if it's possible.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Dave Leo Baker]

I hear what you’re saying. I would consider keeping it simple here, and insert the Velocity Processor plug-in on the track you want to use. Then when it opens select the Maximize Velocity preset for those instruments that behave like organ, or Make Louder if you want some limited dynamic range. You can look at the options in the table, but I have been using Velo Processor for a long time. I’m one of thoes pianists who has had rather awful organ finger substitution technique until recent years, and so I get the velocity thing.

What I will say is there’s a secondary reason for using Velocity Procesor:

If you use your swell / expression pedal, as I do, on solo instruments, I tend to use the Make Louder setting so that my velocity and foot pedal aren’t fighting each other. I just find the Velocity Processor to be the most effective. And, for what it’s worth, the presets in that plug-in generally work for most things.

You insert it before your instrument, now with Logic Magician can push the equals sign while holding down shift, equals being the key that tells you what’s on the track by itself. Add shift and you are inserting your Midi Plug-in before the instrument, which is what you want. 

I use the hell out of both Velocity Processor and Modifier, both can be used any number of ways all over your project on various tracks. 

Best,

Dave Leo Baker,
Your Spa Productions
Gentle rain for thirsty souls
https:artist.link/daveleobaker

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[John Isige]

Thanks!

I don't even know if I need a velocity curve, I just need to bring the top velocity down a bit. There are some effects on some instruments you get if you hit maximum velocity, which I know because I used something that doesn't do velocity. So for that hardware, every key is at max velocity. On keyboards that do, I either can't get them at all on some of them, or I really have to slam down on the key. This could be, probably is, a flaw in my technique, so if that's the case let me know and I'll go get lessons about it.

I'll take a look at the velocity processor, thanks!

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[Dave Leo Baker]

Well the best technique I have found is the “arm weight” technique: Your wrist transfers the weight from your relaxed arm into your fingers. Meaning, you don’t pick your fingers up off the keyboard ad “strike”, but you press. This requires good curvature in the fingers. If you use Pianoteq or another good piano modeling software, you know you’re hitting the sweet spot when you have the tone more similar to Van Cliburn, where you can exact good tone everywhere from pianisimo through fortisimo. And if you’re finding your fingers to be exhausted, this is probably why. It’s more about being a “presser” than a “striker”. So if concerting at a grand piano in a Performing arts center or someplace, someone looking at you won’t generally be able to tell a visual difference between pianisimo and fortisimo. I’m not a educator, only a performer so my explanation is probably off. I got my piano lessons late 70s early 80s, so who knows if my terms are correct.

The other final thing is your fingers move surprisingly little, it’s your  wrist rolling and of course the thumb under / finger(s) over techniques and so the movement comes from arm position. Maybe it’s me being a New Age pianist these days but I think of my arm and hands movement to be more like the flowing stream, not so much like the footsteps of the stallion. And that’s even true when doing fast staccato.

HTH   

Dave Leo Baker,
Your Spa Productions
Gentle rain for thirsty souls
https:artist.link/daveleobaker

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[John Isige]

Thanks! From the stuff I'm seeing on harpsichord and organ, it's a bit like that, except you're not using your arm so much. That kind of makes sense, they're a much lighter touch, if you use an organ patch with no velocity you can just move from the base of your fingers. Of course your arm and wrist do move some, but again from what I've been seeing, you don't have to use weight like that. Maybe harpsichord would be better because it's a closer sound to piano.

I should probably just go sign up for a month of lessons at least and just do hand movement stuff. My problem is I'd really like to find somebody who will come into my house and teach me in my own situation. I'm terrible at figuring out things like posture and height and all. So the last time I took lessons for a bit, I ran into the issue that my keyboard wasn't in the same relationship to me as their piano. I'm also much more interested in organ than piano, and that style of keyboard, i.e. not weighted and all, and it's tough to find anybody who does something other than all piano all the time.

I also just have hand issues. I haven't done keyboard in a couple of days and right now the side of my hand is sore. If you follow the pinky finger down on the outside, that muscle that's straight down from the base knuckle, on the knife edge of the hand? That's tight/sore, but so far as I know, I haven't been doing anything with it.

This happens all the time when I go to physical therapy, "this is acting up", I say, they say "oh what did you do? Did you wrestle a badger? Punch a mountain? Lift something heavy"? I'm always like, "nope, woke up one day and there it was". It seems to baffle and dismay them. I also have really hyper-extensive joints, the last time I went in for stuff with my hands the PT said she'd never seen anybody with joints like that.

I tend to think of keyboard in two ways or classes, percussive, (piano, harpsichord, marimba/vibraphone, plucked strings), and sustained, (organs, flutes, trumpets). For one thing I think you play them differently, think organ vs. piano, and for another thing  patches like properly done organs/harpsichords with no velocity and some synths like that are way less hard on my hands. SO lessons might be good to get some of the arm movement you're talking about. But I also want to look into seeing if I can set things up so I get velocity, but i can play more like harpsichord/organ. I mean, ideally I'd just buy a clavichord. But they're crazy expensive, so that's not happening any time soon, or probably never. Luckily Pianoteq has one, so when I buy that, I'll get one there. But that's right back to this hardware setup discussion, I think.

And this random soreness is sort of why I want to look into velocity, to see if bringing it down some will help. Because i feel like even if I do go and get way better technique, I'll probably still get stuff like this. So if I can get the velocity way less intense, since that seems to be better for me, it should help even more if I get better technique. Hopefully anyway.

As I've mentioned, I think organ and synth-style keys might lend themselves to historical technique for lighter keyboard instruments, in case you're at all interested, here's a bit of a description of harpsichord technique, see also the link on technique and speed. IIRC it's also related to early piano technique, but I'd have to go dig up links about that, let me know if you're at all curious, and I will.

https://www.johnsankey.ca/fingers.html

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