Appeal for those who tried or use stl tones amp hub plug-in

[Laid Civic]

Hello people

I’m kinda switching this topic to separate conversation.
I have an appeal for everyone who tried or using this plug-in now. Whenever you have some time, check the standalone version of this plug-in which is as accessible as plug-in version but all UI elements are displayed differently I mean, in different order.
Simply note everything that you discover with this plug-in, but I’d appreciate if you share your thoughts on what seems good or bad in plug-in and in standalone version.
Which layout is more logical to you, what would you change, rearrange, add to the plug-in etc.
I’d like to collect more notes on this as well before I sent my report to the stl tones. Together we could certainly make this plug-in even better.

Of course, I’d like to clerify one more thing.
I absolutely want to have perfect plug-in for all of my own needs.
That’s why I work with stl tones to make their plug-ins as accessible as it could be, but also helping them by writing reports and collecting and sharing oppinions from everyone.
However, I don’t work for them, nor I’m their representative.
Everything you write here about this plug-in or any other stl tones plug-in will reach them, I’ll do my best to share everything.
Also everything I share with you will only be things I get told by developer himself, so don’t expect I can know everything about this or any other stl tones projects.

I’m going to send them a new report by the end of next week, so everything you write about this plug-in: suggestion, complains (I like complains hehehe), different ideas, in fact anything, will be included in this report.
Stl tones developer is great guy and amazing developer. He really wants to help us with this, so lets use this to our advantage.

Cheers

[Benjamin Shvarts]

Hello!
It will be possible not the complete list. But I will try to list the wishes. Is what I think now. It is sure that there will be also others.
1. To make hotkeys for interface elements. For example, Amp View shift + 1, e.t.c.
2. To make hotkeys for presets’ menu. For example: cmd + N - new пресет, cmd + s - Save preset, e.t.c.
3. To repair navigation in all menus. For example by arrow keys to go to the buttons New preset, Save preset, e.t.c without problems with navigation.
4. To make tuner more accessability. I mean that Voice Over or NVDA e.t.c could sound values of a note and percent for exact control.
5. To repair all tables. Now they aren't read in general.
6. To make helps for interface elements with combinations of keys. It is so made in AmpKit on mac. And it is very convenient.
7. On Windows to make availability also for Jaws, NVDA.
8. To make very much Simple and accessability for Midi learn. That the plug-in could use for live performances.
Yesterday I tried AmpKit and even have bought it. He has 100% of accessability. I think that some ideas can be taken from there.
Thanks!


> 29 марта 2022 г., в 02:17, Laid Civic <lucky...@gmail.com> написал(а):

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[Laid Civic]

Hello Benjamin

I appreciate your notes.
Regarding tables, you really don’t need them at all. When you for instance open the amp selection menu, the voiceover is focused on edit field where you can type the name of desired amp model, or you simply hit down arrow and pop up menu will appear with all models. It works the same with pedal selection.
Tables can’t be made accessible at this point anyway, mostly because of the juce framework which handles it in kind of weird way, that’s why I came up with that pop up menu thing, their developer successfully implemented it and it works all the time.
Anyway, I saved your mail for refference.

Cheers

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[TheOreoMonster]

Its unfortunate that AmpKit doesn’t seem to be updated anymore as it got it right. I definitely think checking out ampKit may give some ideas of things to implement in AmpHub.
Also another tip for AmpKit, if you use a tool like loopback or blackhole or etc. You should be able to route AmpKit into the DAW. So then you can disable the cabs in AmpKit and use an IR Loaderr (or a convolution reverb plug in) to load cab impulses for it.

As for notes on AmpHub, I want to play with it more before compiling some notes, but if memory serves correct it appears that in the cab section some of the parameters are unlabeled. The cab section is where I struggle with the most, but I haven’t explored the effects section much yet as I am still exploring a basic amp tone at the moment in the little time. I have had with it so far.

I’ll second the idea of key commands in the stand alone app.

-T.O.M
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[Herman Fermin]

I would refrain from telling them to provide support for Jaws or any specific screen reader. In my opinion, that is counter productive. I do not need a developer to spend money and buy a specific screen reader like Jaws or any other paid for screen reader and learn it in order to make something accessible. Developers should be learning accessibility standards and use what is easily and already available on computers. Narrator in Windows and VoiceOver on the Mac.

Over in Windows, I have a bit of a focus issue when getting to some of the knobs/controls when getting to the end of the navigation. Example, if I have 3-4 stomps and sometimes will only see the controls for the first one and not the last two. Usually if I arrow backwards through them and then go forward, I can then see the rest of the controls for the other stomps/effects.

Also, wonder if there is an easier way of telling the screen reader user where a set of controls begins and ends. So using my last example of 3-4 stomps, if I am not paying close attention, I could easily tweak the wrong stomp/effect because I thought I was on the next one or the previous stomp/effect. I haven't tried this on the Mac so don't know what the experience is there. Are you able to easily see where one set begins and ends?

I agree that saving a preset within the plug-in interface should be easier to do on both platforms but as far as I know, all Daws have their own mechanism of saving presets.

Herman

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[Laid Civic]

Ok, firstly to oreomonster.
I didn’t use that amp kit but I’ll surely check it out to see can I get some ideas from there.
Everything should be labelled, it is so on my side definitely.
In short, in cabinet view you have a section for internal cabinets, and section for external impulses, and finally mutual controls for both of these sections.
Regarding internal cabinets, you have option to load two of them.
The cabinet selection menu is structured as preset selection menu, so instead of preset banks you have cabinet models, and instead of presets, you have microphones for cabinets. So, in order to choose a cabinet model you choose it from the list, but in order to activate the selection you must choose one mic from the list. There are 6 microphones for each cabinets.
For each of two cabinets, you have on/off buttons, and next and previous microhpones buttons.
Note: you can focus on cabinet selection menu and use up and arrow keys instead of next and previous buttons, as same as with presets.
Then also you have cabinet balance slider, which determines what percentage of each cabinet you want to hear, percentages are display on left and right to the slider, for cabinet 1 and cabinet 2.
And finally, you have volume, mic angle, and mic distance sliders for each of the two cabinets.

In the section for external impulses, you have option to load two of them as well, on/off buttons for each, and next and previous for each, so if you have a folder with let say 20 impulses, you can use these next and previous buttons instead of going to the folder each time.

Finally, you have highpass, lowpass and resonance sliders for each of two selected cabinets, you can of course use one internal and one external and blend them in, it’s completely on you.

Sorry if my explaination is complicated, I sometimes overcomplicate things when explaining in english, but hope you get an idea.
Anyway if you still find something confuzing or not working, well, shoot a message man. If possible I’ll help, if not, I’ll write it down for stl tones guys :P.


Now to Herman.
Basically I agree with you on jaws matter and to be honest, nobody whom I worked with in last 6-7 years didn’t want to do anything special for jaws. I mean, if it’s paid software then make it worth of paying for.
BTW, stl tones amp hub was tested with narrator as well and to my surprise it worked really well.
Issue with saving or choosing presets is kind of annoying, but I think that there are much more important things to work on. Of course, just my oppinion, I’ll report that issue as well.

Issue with losing the focus is not something I expirienced when testing on windows so good to know it. It doesn’t happen on mac, at least it didn’t happen to me til now, but who knows.

About the second thing, I already thought about it.
On mac, there are no any special landmarks or borders which could tell me where is the start of pedal1 controls and end of it.
But, here’s how I know it.
Controls for first pedal starts immediately after the last pedal slot, and almost all pedals end with Status button, which is on/off switch, so if there’s anything after the status button I know that controls for the second pedal starts.
The only slight issue with this is that some pedals, digital reverb, digital delay and spaceverb comes to my mind, end with spill over button, which is great option, but can be annoying when you have more then one pedal and consider that status button is last control for most of them.

I was thinking about suggesting that, after you add certain pedal, controls of it appears immediately after it’s slot, so in this case controls for the first pedal would be displayed between first and second slot, then controls for second pedal would be displayed in between second and third slot etc, I think this would be much better.

Last thing to mention.
You can really write here anything you find is not working properly or any suggestion, I’ll take note of everything, but you should keep in mind two things.
First, none of developers will change the visual aspect of their apps in order to make it accessible, literaly none of them. Anything that can be done without changing the plug-in visually can be considered, but in years of accessibility consulting, testing and development I haven’t found anyone who would do that.
Second thing, many developers nowadays use juce framework, it’s same with stl tones.
This framework has some accessibility limitations at its current state, so it may be possible that juce framework itself won’t make something possible to do, which will limit all developers in providing greater accessibility improvements.
Tables you can find in amp or pedals selections menu are one example of that, which is reason why I came up with that pop up menu in order to select desired model.

Cheers

[Benjamin Shvarts]

Hello!
I found two versions of a STL plugin in my account. Here their names:
STL+Ignite +-+ AmpHub+1.2.6+202204.pkg
STL AmpHub - AVX

Please explain what is the difference between them?
My second question following:
There are a lot of sets from famous musicians on STL sight. For example pac of Andy James. May I use them with my subscription- 10 dollars a month? Or they need to be bought separately?
Thanks!

[Herman Fermin]

The FAQ explains this and I would confirm it before installing to ensure you have the correct one as I can't verify at this moment but if memory serves, the AVX one is for older systems.

Herman

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[Laid Civic]

Hello

Benjamin, I strongly advice you to read manual and FAQ from stl tones, most questions if not all will be answered that way.
In the mean time, AVX version is the version that will run on most computers today.
Non-AVX version however, is made to be used on older systems or newer macs with M1 processors.
So, which one will you use, only depends on what machine you have.

Cheers

[Benjamin Shvarts]

Hello!
I found some problems in the new STL version:
1. Voice Over ceased to read values of settings at their change. Reads only by the first pressing of VO+ up/down and then does not read. I found this problem on my macbook pro 13 late 2011 with Hi Sierra. Probably this problem on new systems is absent. But I while did not check it.
2. In section of effects the order of settings is mixed. For example, if to deliver to the first Delay and the second Reverb that their settings are mixed. It is very difficult to understand that where is. Both effects have many similar names for settings. And it does use even more difficultly.

Now wishes:
1. Urgently availability in the section Midi is required. I wanted to use STL at a concert but it is absolutely impossible to adjust MIDI controler. Voice Over can read nothing.
2. The menu пресетов on Mac became more convenient. Now correctly lists пресетов by left Arrow open. But it would be desirable to have fast navigation according to names in this menu. Like as it is made in Finder. For example I start printing the name and at once I pass to it. Also it is not necessary to go up and down and to spend time.
3. It concerns a set of effects. It not about Voice Over. I did not manage to find effect of Auto Wah. Maybe somebody saw it?
4. I do not have enough keys of fast navigation between effects. For example, I have Delay and Reverb. I would like to pass with a fast key at once into Reverb and not to go through Delay.
Thanks!f

[Laid Civic]

Hello Benjamin

All of this will be reported, almost everything has been mentioned before.
Your OS is maybe too old and that’s reason why it happens, but I’m not sure obviously so I took note of this.
Effects parameter are not mixed then simply displayed all in one place, can be annoying but this is already reported.
I also don’t have auto wah so this is not only your issue.
I can immediately tell you that first letter navigation won’t be possible, at least with current version of juce framework, as it’s not currently possible with juce. We already tried to make this before first accessible release.
Midi assignment is already reported as not accessible, hopefully it will be soon as it’s really great.

Thanks for your notes anyway man


Cheers

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[Benjamin Shvarts]

Hello! I installed May STL’s updating. Probably I am mistaken, but it seems any updatings of availability is absent.
Here that is specified in the file of changes:
___
Version 1.2.7 2022.05
- Added Vicarius Grey 50 amplifier model
- Added 2x12 Vicarius V30 cabinet model (12 microphones)
- Fixed bug causing the Basic Volume Pedal effect model to not work in Stereo mode
- Fixed wrong capacitor value on Lancaster VR100 amplifier model overdrive 2nd stage
- Fixed poweramp/speaker interaction inaccuracy at some volume settings on Meridian 65 amplifier model
- Fixed poweramp/speaker interaction inaccuracy at some volume settings on Lancaster VR100 amplifier model

Version 1.2.6 2022.04
- Added native Apple Silicon support
- Added Lancaster VR100 amplifier model
- Added preset bank by guitarist Tramaine Jonathan
- Improved Droptaver stompbox/effect model with 3 selectable polyphonic algorithms
- Improved poweramp/speaker interaction on Meridian 65 amplifier model
- Fixed wrong resistor value on Lab Mr Hectic amplifier model input section

Version 1.2.5 2022.03
- Added Technyc Drive Direct Bass v1 stompbox model
- Added Droptaver stompbox + effect model
- Added Giano Guitar Doubler effect model
- Added Orbital Delay effect model
- Added Chainsaw Eq effect model
- Digital Flanger, Digital Phaser and Digital Tremolo now available as stompbox models
- Improved screen readers support for visually impaired users

___

Whether there is information on when STL will continue work on accessability?
Thanks!

[Laid Civic]

Hello Benjamin

I’m sure they will continue working on it based on what they’ve done, but nobody can garantee that.
I haven’t received any news from their developer for some time now, I guess they are busy with something else right now because he always replys to my messages, we’ll see.
I’ll write here anything new that pops up.

All bugs that you guys found out or I found out got reported to them, so they surely have knowledge of what’s good and what’s bad regarding accessibility.
All of you can report same things if you feel need for it, maybe it will force them to act quicker or something, don’t know. I already done what I could. It’s all on them now.

Cheers

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