Discrimination at the Moon & Sixpence - Perth
Sandgroper
Just like to let everyone know that the Moon & Sixpence pub in Murray St Perth
are discriminating against some people and hiding behind the anti drunk laws as
an excuse.
I usually go there once a month after a union meeting to have a few beers while
waiting for a bus , on Wednesday night 9/6/99 after going to the meeting and
having a few beers with the blokes I went to the Moon & Sixpence as usual to
have a few beers while waiting for a bus.
Admittedly I wasn't sober but I wasn't staggering around , obnoxious , abusive
or mouthing off to anyone and I was served 2 beers and nothing was said.
I got talking to a couple of people and as one of them was a shop steward
within the same union , but different section , we started talking about union
things.
After I finished talking to them , I went to another part of the bar for a
quiet drink and I was just standing there doing nothing and this bimbo of a
barmaid comes up and says to me that she wasn't going to serve me any more
because I was "too drunk" .
I have been in the Moon & Sixpence many times and I have see drunks staggering
around the place , yelling and screaming at the top of their voice in the
lounge and they still got served , but I got refused service for just standing
at the bar by myself ,doing nothing and saying nothing
I reckon the barmaid refused me service because either of 2 things
1) She didn't like the look of me
2) She didn't like the fact that I was talking about union matters to a shop
steward ( and eavedropping on a private conversation )
I demanded to see the manager , and the first thing that this manager by the
name of Chris said to me is that " because I am arguing with the bar manager ,
then I must be drunk " !.
What a lot of bullshit , anybody with a bit of backbone who has been accused of
something which seems wrong will argue , drunk or sober .
After the talk I had with him , I eventually was able to get "one more drink",
but that is not the point , I was definitely discriminated against by a 19 year
old bimbo behind the bar.
I didn't realise until today that there was nobody standing at the bar last
night , but everybody was out side , so perhaps other people have had the same
treatment while standing at the bar and have learnt their lesson and only go to
the bar to get a refill.
So people , if you ever go to the Moon & Sixpence in Murray St ,Perth , be
careful , if they don't like the look of you or some of the things you talk
about , then they are just as likely to refuse to serve you anymore and will
hide behind the anti drunk laws and say that you " are too drunk to be served".
--
Sandgroper
==========
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--
Sandgroper
==========
Remove XXNOSPAMXX in reply address
Eddie
--
Regards
Eddie
VK6KED
You may have to remove NOSPAM from my address if replying by email.
Paul Raj Khangure
: So people , if you ever go to the Moon & Sixpence in Murray St ,Perth , be
: careful , if they don't like the look of you or some of the things you talk
: about , then they are just as likely to refuse to serve you anymore and will
: hide behind the anti drunk laws and say that you " are too drunk to be served".
Assuming that your charming online persona reflects on your real life
person, I think that next time I'm at the Moon & Six, I'll be drinking
to the bar maid ;)
PS: a quiet request, in a civil tone, to speak with a manager, goes down
much better than an outrageous demand.
Paul Raj Khangure
--
I stayed up all last night playing poker with tarot cards.
I got a full house and four people died.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Sandgroper
Paul Raj Khangure <p...@sweet-thang.digitaljunkie.net> wrote in article
<7jo96t$2pt$1...@she-bitch.digitaljunkie.net>...
> In iinet.general Sandgroper <stev...@xxnospamxxwantree.com.au> wrote:
>
> : So people , if you ever go to the Moon & Sixpence in Murray St ,Perth , be
> : careful , if they don't like the look of you or some of the things you talk
> : about , then they are just as likely to refuse to serve you anymore and
will
> : hide behind the anti drunk laws and say that you " are too drunk to be
served".
>
> Assuming that your charming online persona reflects on your real life
> person, I think that next time I'm at the Moon & Six, I'll be drinking
> to the bar maid ;)
>
> PS: a quiet request, in a civil tone, to speak with a manager, goes down
> much better than an outrageous demand.
>
One thing that I didn't do is yell or scream at any time , when I said I
demanded to see the manager , I said it in a civil tone with underlying anger
," I want to see the bar manager "and didn't do any yelling or screaming or
make any "outrageous demand" as you put it .
It was discrimination pure and simple.
Yeah , the next time you have a drink at the Moon & Sixpence , if they see you
don't fit into their perception ,YOU MAY GET THE SAME TREATMENT, unless they
consider you to be one of the "beautiful people "
Incidentally , what I have seen and heard about the Moon & Sixpence bar staff ,
they are mostly foreign itinerant backpackers/tourists.
Paul Raj Khangure
: One thing that I didn't do is yell or scream at any time , when I said I
: demanded to see the manager , I said it in a civil tone with underlying anger
: ," I want to see the bar manager "and didn't do any yelling or screaming or
: make any "outrageous demand" as you put it .
Fair enough.
: Yeah , the next time you have a drink at the Moon & Sixpence , if they see you
: don't fit into their perception ,YOU MAY GET THE SAME TREATMENT, unless they
: consider you to be one of the "beautiful people "
*snicker*
I've been called many things in my life, but "beautiful" is not one of
them.
Alfa
<esp...@carmen.murdoch.edu.au> wrote:
>Eddie
>VK6KED
CQ CQ CQ CR6OZ..... ;-)
I used to be a radio amateur too.
CR6OZ (Angola)
ZS1ABG (South Africa)
CT4VQ (Portugal)
73's and good DX's
Alfa
Jason Cornelius
news:7joefb$4b4$1...@she-bitch.digitaljunkie.net...
>
> I've been called many things in my life, but "beautiful" is not one of
> them.
I have.. But it was from some drunk guy at the Moon and Sixpence.
He got thrown out some time later by a disgruntled barmaid.
Jason.
Ben Horwood
Sandgroper wrote in message <01beb340$aa20aea0$3ce637cb@panther>...
>
>Paul Raj Khangure <p...@sweet-thang.digitaljunkie.net> wrote in article
><7jo96t$2pt$1...@she-bitch.digitaljunkie.net>...[snip]
>One thing that I didn't do is yell or scream at any time , when I said I
>demanded to see the manager , I said it in a civil tone with underlying
anger
>," I want to see the bar manager "and didn't do any yelling or screaming or
>make any "outrageous demand" as you put it .
>
>It was discrimination pure and simple.
>
>Yeah , the next time you have a drink at the Moon & Sixpence , if they see
you
>don't fit into their perception ,YOU MAY GET THE SAME TREATMENT, unless
they
>consider you to be one of the "beautiful people "
>
I find this surprising, since the staff have always been infinitely
courteous to me. I've never been discriminated against in such a way, and
I'm certainly not "beautiful". I wear black, black and more black, which is
considered a lot less acceptable than "clean street clothes", and TM&TS is
one of the few places where I've found this to never matter.
I find it hard to believe you were discriminated against on this basis.
Maybe you looked less sober than you felt.
I can appreciate how outraged you must feel though, since the vast majority
of punters in there on a Friday night are legless, the amount of vomit I
frequently see in the gents is testament to this.
Maybe that's what they're trying to clean up.
>Incidentally , what I have seen and heard about the Moon & Sixpence bar
staff ,
>they are mostly foreign itinerant backpackers/tourists.
>
Whoever they are, they always call me "sir", and serve me with a smile :)
Darrin
>
>1) She didn't like the look of me
>
>2) She didn't like the fact that I was talking about union matters to a shop
>steward ( and eavedropping on a private conversation )
Its the moon, obviosuly you didn't have anough peircings through your
eyebrow and you were hetrosexual?
Anthony Shipley
>I've been called many things in my life, but "beautiful" is not one of
>them.
Not even in braille?
anthony shipley
xpct th nxpctd
Sandgroper
Ben Horwood <pert...@iinet.net.au> wrote in article
<7jpd3a$756$1...@news.iinet.net.au>...
be.
They call me "sir" with a smile , but you can tell they do that because they
have to .
You have just proven that the Moon & Sixpence discriminated against me on
Wednesday night , 9/6/99 on the grounds of looks or what I was talking about
to a couple of people when you said :
" the vast majority of punters in there on a Friday night are legless, the
amount of vomit I frequently see in the gents is testament to this".
Thank you for your proof .
Sandgroper
Darrin <fm...@noSPAM.iinet.net.au> wrote in article
<37608687...@news.m.iinet.net.au>...
I am definitely hetro and I am a reasonably big and solid average looking
character around 40 years and an aussie.
I don't wear suits or trendy clothes nor do I wear any grotty clothes to a pub
, especially at night.
Are you saying that the Moon and Sixpence is where some the poofters hang out
??
Sandgroper
Greg <gre...@wantree.com.au> wrote in article
<3779f433...@news.wantree.com.au>...
> You are doing the righty Sandgroper, If they treat you like shit,
> don't go back and bag the pricks to everyone you can.
> Try the Elephant and the Wheelbarrow, opposite Pharoahs, they have
> served me and friends when we've been pissed as rats.
>
Thanks for the encouragement.
I will definitely tell everyone about what they did to me.
--
Paul Raj Khangure
: You have just proven that the Moon & Sixpence discriminated against me on
: Wednesday night , 9/6/99 on the grounds of looks or what I was talking about
: to a couple of people when you said :
: " the vast majority of punters in there on a Friday night are legless, the
: amount of vomit I frequently see in the gents is testament to this".
: Thank you for your proof .
Proof?
*snort*
Using your definition of 'proof', the fact that the staff there are just
itinerant backpackers means they have no interest whatsoever in your
union debate, nor in throwing you out, they just want their money.
Hence, you were't discriminated against.
(I suggest you do some research into logic and proofs. They are not what
you think they are.)
Dave Austin
staff ,
> they are mostly foreign itinerant backpackers/tourists.
> Sandgroper
Reading your interminable blatherings about your night at the pub is like
watching a dog with a bone......let it go! Dry your eyes and get on with
your life.
Dave
DJ-Fu
Sandgroper wrote in message <01beb318$5ef5b2e0$d3e637cb@panther>...
>Admittedly I wasn't sober but I wasn't staggering around , obnoxious ,
abusive
>or mouthing off to anyone and I was served 2 beers and nothing was said.
>I got talking to a couple of people and as one of them was a shop steward
>within the same union , but different section , we started talking about
union
>things.
>
>After I finished talking to them , I went to another part of the bar for a
>quiet drink and I was just standing there doing nothing and this bimbo of a
>barmaid comes up and says to me that she wasn't going to serve me any more
>because I was "too drunk" .
>
>I have been in the Moon & Sixpence many times and I have see drunks
staggering
>around the place , yelling and screaming at the top of their voice in the
>lounge and they still got served , but I got refused service for just
standing
>at the bar by myself ,doing nothing and saying nothing
>
>
>1) She didn't like the look of me
>
>2) She didn't like the fact that I was talking about union matters to a
shop
>steward ( and eavedropping on a private conversation )
>
the
>name of Chris said to me is that " because I am arguing with the bar
manager ,
>then I must be drunk " !.
>
>What a lot of bullshit , anybody with a bit of backbone who has been
accused of
>something which seems wrong will argue , drunk or sober .
>
>After the talk I had with him , I eventually was able to get "one more
drink",
>but that is not the point , I was definitely discriminated against by a 19
year
>old bimbo behind the bar.
Hmmmm............an interesting topic.
I myself work behind a bar - and in fact - over the last six years have
worked behind many. I cannot speak for the barmaid that served you of
course - but I could provide many a hypothetical reason for her refusal of
service to you. I understand your reaction also - as no one I have *ever*
cut off from any bar I have worked at (rightfully or otherwise) has been
happy with my decision.
Lets examine your assertions on her reasoning for cutting you off:
1. She didn't like the look of you
Well - in all frankness - this is a strong possibility. I can't really offer
more help here, as I don't know what you look like, what you looked like
that day, how you acted or any other important factor in this decision.
Chances are though that it is highly unlikely that this decision was made by
one person alone. In my experience, whenever I or a co-worker has thought to
refuse service to someone it is *always* conferred upon with other staff or
management to ensure fair treatment for the punter. This has been the case
in even the worst of the pubs/clubs I have worked in and is regarded as
general bar etiquette amongst staff. If you were refused service it is
likely (though not necessarily proven) that the 'bar bimbo' that served you
had questioned other staff/management for an opinion. Please don't
misunderstand me - I am *not* saying that you were drunken or misbehaved but
view it like this:
There are *very* hefty financial penalties for bar stool serving what is
considered to be an 'intoxicated person' (a loose definition - but
nonetheless the current legal one to my knowledge). These penalties apply to
both a venue and the individual serving. In the past manslaughter charges
have been laid on bar staff who have served the drinks to drunk drivers who
have later killed pedestrians. This is a tough issue to confront at around
$10 an hour. Given the choice - if in doubt - I *will* refuse service, even
at the risk of embarrassment of myself or the venue.
In fact - I have previously refused service to a disabled patron of a venue
I worked at because I was unaware of his disability. Whilst this was most
embarrassing for myself, I would do the same again tomorrow - with the
accompanied apology also - as the penalties are too severe to allow for an
error in judgement the other way.
From what you say, she had made the wrong decision. Nonetheless - I would
have done exactly the same if I had any doubt in my mind that you were
'intoxicated'. Again - it is a difficult call to make as even legally the
degree of intoxication is ill-defined.
2) She didn't like the fact that I was talking about union matters to a shop
steward (and eavedropping on a private conversation)
No offence - but I think this is a ridiculous assumption. What would a '19
year old bar bimbo' know of union matters? Or if informed in this regard,
why would she care? At the risk of being flamed here I will paint a
stereo-typical picture for you...
19 year old 'bar bimbo' Candi works at the Moon and Sixpence. She is quite a
good bar attendant and manages to pull about 5 shifts a week in between
studying at TAFE as a beauty therapist. The bar job is the only job that she
can get that will be flexible enough with her studies (as she is vastly
under qualified at this point for anything else). She has had a long day -
with the usual lunchtime rush filled with yobbos and rude w@nker customers
who don't even have the politeness to say 'please' or 'thankyou' let alone
state their order clearly. All she can think of is how she wished she could
clock off early and get home to study for that all important exam tomorrow.
Why would she be concerned with your conversation regarding union matters?
My example would be somewhat of an industry 'cliche' - but has a strong
basis of truth to it also. Though not every bar person will be a 'Candi' (I
know many door men whom are studying law for example) the situation is
likely to be comparable. People are people Sangroper, and many will be far
more engrossed in their own situation other than your own - whether a bar
person, bus driver or otherwise. If a bus driver refused to let you onto a
bus in similar circumstances would you say that it would be for the same
reason?
As far as the manager's conduct goes - he was offering you a standard
response to a situation he has to deal with probably hundreds of times a
week. It is never an easy task, but perhaps what he was pointing out was the
*way* you were arguing with him? Sober and drunken people argue very
differently, and perhaps due to your outrage at being refused service, he
made the mistake of considering you drunken? To me this seems likely, as
later he permitted you to purchase another drink when he had realised his
error.
Please understand that I have no intention to offend you with this posting,
merely to point out another angle. I have no doubt that you feel as though
you were hard done by in this situation, and can offer no reasons why, as it
was not myself who was serving you.
With respect,
JT
>Perhaps you look and fit into their perception of what their customers should
>be.
>They call me "sir" with a smile , but you can tell they do that because they
>have to .
Actually it's easier to call everyone sir/madam than remember their
name plus it becomes a bit of a habit., the smile and polite mannerism
is a good way to win a tip and also becomes a habit, smiles are also
catching and happy people tend to buy more drinks and tip more often,
so alot of bar staff adopt it, treat them like shit though and you'll
find yourself served a little differently. Protocol does get quite
amusing at times though at supermarkets. with the chekout chicks, the
number of times i've heard "have a nice day" spoken in a monotonous
voice with no meaning behind the words as they're pushing me out the
factory line and ushering the next job through is not funny.
>You have just proven that the Moon & Sixpence discriminated against me on
>Wednesday night , 9/6/99 on the grounds of looks
probably on the grounds of looks, maybe they had an inspector due in
sometime that day or something so they were being extra careful and
thought you looked quite a bit over the limit, maybe they thought you
were someone else who had drank a tank load earlier that day. Maybe
someone had complained to staff about you. Don't presume to know why
you were refused service.
JT
DJ-Fu
Sandgroper wrote in message <01beb3fe$108884c0$5fe637cb@panther>...
>> >
>> >1) She didn't like the look of me
>> >
>> >2) She didn't like the fact that I was talking about union matters to a
shop
>> >steward ( and eavedropping on a private conversation )
>>
>> eyebrow and you were hetrosexual?
>>
>
>I am definitely hetro and I am a reasonably big and solid average looking
>character around 40 years and an aussie.
>I don't wear suits or trendy clothes nor do I wear any grotty clothes to a
pub
>, especially at night.
>
>Are you saying that the Moon and Sixpence is where some the poofters hang
out
>??
Oh dear. It seems this conversation has begun to show some colours.
Sandgroper - I would expect that 'poofters' hang out just about everywhere
you frequent. The bus stop. The local pub. Hell - you probably even work
with a few. Welcome to the end of the 1990's. As a side point - I am under
the impression that Darrin is confusing the 'Moon and Sixpence' with the
'Moon Cafe' judging by his previous posting (please correct me if I'm wrong
Darrin). Either way though, the previous comment of mine still stands.
I am not gay (just for the record) or bisexual for that matter - but it
disturbs me to think that this really makes a difference to where you will
go or 'be seen'.
All this aside from your comments regarding 'foreign itinerant
backpackers/tourists' (like that makes a difference?) ... you are beginning
to worry me Sandgroper.
With respect.
Darrin
>you frequent. The bus stop. The local pub. Hell - you probably even work
>with a few. Welcome to the end of the 1990's. As a side point - I am under
>the impression that Darrin is confusing the 'Moon and Sixpence' with the
>'Moon Cafe' judging by his previous posting (please correct me if I'm wrong
>Darrin). Either way though, the previous comment of mine still stands.
I was refering to the generalisation of the crowd who go to the mood
cafe, not the Woodvale "sixpence and moon" bar. Wasn't putting gays
down or anything like that.
I reckon you should make a formal complaint, add that she served other
"more legless" customer?
Good luck
JT
wrote:
>>Sandgroper - I would expect that 'poofters' hang out just about everywhere
>>you frequent. The bus stop. The local pub. Hell - you probably even work
>>with a few. Welcome to the end of the 1990's. As a side point - I am under
>>the impression that Darrin is confusing the 'Moon and Sixpence' with the
>>'Moon Cafe' judging by his previous posting (please correct me if I'm wrong
>>Darrin). Either way though, the previous comment of mine still stands.
>
>I was refering to the generalisation of the crowd who go to the mood
>cafe, not the Woodvale "sixpence and moon" bar. Wasn't putting gays
>down or anything like that.
oh that's right there are two Moons, woodvale and perth city
JT
Sandgroper
DJ-Fu <dj...@iinet.net.au> wrote in article <7jsaan$cgo$1...@news.iinet.net.au>...
Thanks for your post , it is well written.
I quite understand about the anti drunk laws that the pubs use and how that at
times they are needed , but as from my experience at the Moon & Sixpence last
Wednesday night ( 9/6/99 ) it shows that they can use this law at their own
discretion and discriminate against people if they don't like you.
A couple of the posts in this thread has shown that people have been absolutely
"maggoty " and still was served and another saying that on Friday nights
everybody is "legless ".
I have also been in there on occasions and I have seen people really drunk ,
yelling and screaming and jumping up and down and having a good time in the
lounge part and they still got served with out any problems.
So why was I singled out and victimised just because I was standing by myself
at the bar saying nothing , talking to 2 people for 15 minutes and then , when
I went and stood at another part of the bar by myself , I was refused service.
Either the barmaid didn't like the look of me or perhaps she was overhearing my
conversation with the others and didn't like unionists or what they stand for ,
or perhaps she had a bad experience behind the bar with unionist , if this is
the case then she is discriminating against me because of her own PERSONAL
VALUES not the law.
I am always polite to the barstaff when I am in a pub and I always say " thanks
" when they serve me and I never lean over the bar shouting at the barmaid for
another drink or any other type of abuse.
There were about 4-5 bar staff working the bar and the adjoining lounge bar ,
but this young barmaid was the one that fronted me and refused service , so
either she was the one that didn't like me or it was the management that used
the barmaid as a front to make it look like it was coming from her personally
and not the pub itself.
When I am accused of something that I think is wrong , I spit the dummy , it
doesn't matter where I am , I spit the dummy and argue , it doesn't matter
whether I am drunk or sober , I do it because I don't take shit from nobody
especially if I am accused of something that I didn't do ....etc.
I argued with the bar manager , but this time I didn't go off the deep end ,
because I know about the anti drunk laws and how the manager can use it to his
own personal advantage , but I pointed out a number of things to him and
especially the fact that arguing with a bar manager is not absolute proof that
you are " too drunk to be served ".
When you say that you have made than error in judgement concerning an disabled
person , it is quite possible that this can happen , but how many people really
make an issue of it when they are want to "just have a night out" , a lot of
people would just go to another pub and meekly accept the fact that "that pub
wouldn't serve them".
As I said in my original post the Moon & Sixpence are victimising and
discriminating against people that they don't like the look of or what they
talk about and are hiding behind the anti drunk laws as an excuse.
Bryan
No one at the bar till next day.
;-)