From the "Not our problem" department
Sean Hannan
Just over a month ago I posted an articel here regarding a problem with
Wantree and how the tech support guys insisted a problem was at our end
and to reinstall all our copies of Windows/Service Packs etc...
After several hours, a number of phone calls and a lot of insistence that
the support staff actually check the Wantree end, the problem was finally
located and acknowledged by support staff - on the Wantree end.
Well, it's happened again. What sort of criteria is there for Wantree
support staff to get employed and/or what training do they get for
support?
Today's problem (abbreviated)
Someone in our other office was unable to access a web site but could
access others. A quick call to support and the reply was "We can't
access that site either so the problem must be at the site you are trying
to access". Fair enough so far. The user at the other office called
other offices both logged on under separate Wantree accounts and both
WERE able to acces the URL in question. (Error was an unresolved domain
name)
Back to Wantree support - "Nope, sorry, problem must be at the site you
are trying to access."
I was able to ping the site from here (again through Wantree) and told
the user with the problem to access the web site directly via the IP
address - everything accessed ok except that some URL links from that
page explicitly linked to the domain name so were inaccessible. We added
the domain name and IP address to the HOSTS. file on the local PC to
resolve the domain name locally and everything was able to be accessed.
Based on the fact that out of 3 separate Wantree accounts accessed from 3
separate locations, 2 could access the site and 1 could not, the problem
could easily have been on the client's side. However, the fact that
Wantree support staff also reported that they were unable to access the
site would seem to indicate that the problem is located somewhere on the
Wantree end.
Is it too much to ask that support staff actually consider the fact that
the problem may actually exist at the ISP and then to get them to
actually look into it? The 2 locations that had no problems are both
routed through a proxy server on NT PC's whereas the location without the
access was simply a Windows 95 PC.
The point of this post: Out of all our calls to Wantree support, 95% turn
out to be problems located within Wantree as we generally check
everything out our end first before calling support HOWEVER the response
is usually the reverse, ie: 95% of the time we are told the problem is
nothing to do with Wantree. Anyone else experience this? Certainly gets
pretty damn frustrating when the support staff keep saying - "The problem
is at your end, try doing this ... If it still doesn't work, reinstall
Windows". Pretty damn pointless doing all this reinstalling if the
support staff don't bother looking into the problem at the ISP first!
We rang support to let them know that we have got it to work by resolving
the domain name manually and we believe the problem to be theirs and a
follow up post will be made when they return the call!
</RANT>
Woodster
Sandgroper
Sean Hannan wrote in message ...
><RANT>
>
>Just over a month ago I posted an articel here regarding a problem with
>Wantree and how the tech support guys insisted a problem was at our end
>and to reinstall all our copies of Windows/Service Packs etc...
>
>After several hours, a number of phone calls and a lot of insistence that
>
>the support staff actually check the Wantree end, the problem was finally
>
>located and acknowledged by support staff - on the Wantree end.
>
>Well, it's happened again. What sort of criteria is there for Wantree
>support staff to get employed and/or what training do they get for
>support?
>
Perhaps the gnomes at iinet/wantree are in reality just funny little
leprechauns .
:))
Sandgroper
==========
Remove XXNOSPAMXX in reply address
mister c of nine
<wood...@spamfree.wantree.com.au> spat out a tooth, picked out an
eye, squatted in the corner and spoke the following stuff:
>Is it too much to ask that support staff actually consider the fact that
>the problem may actually exist at the ISP and then to get them to
>actually look into it?
yes, as a matter of fact, it is.
haven't you considered all the work they do for you already? they
don't have time to investigate every anomoly! they've got to... umm...
support some stuff which is really in need of supporting!
why, i saw one support guy holding up a pencil, once.
went in to one isp and helped their support guy burn quake cds, while
he ignored the ringing phone.
yes, support people are fun.
of course, omen's bunch were always cool, but i expect that to
deteriorate now that the businessmen have taken over.
goodbye smooth internet, and hello wacky bumpy rides, i expect, sadly.
--
alt.CMMCollective: #0042 of 0069
"Mooching is Irrelevent."
---
"Blessed be the Followers of the
Coke Truck." - Old CMM Saying.
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and the CMM Collective
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<message ends>
Zac Charlesworth
Jan 2000 17:12:13 +0800 a mysterious being known only as Sean Hannan
<wood...@spamfree.wantree.com.au> escaped the abyss to utter the
following foreboding words:
>After several hours, a number of phone calls and a lot of insistence that
>the support staff actually check the Wantree end, the problem was finally
>located and acknowledged by support staff - on the Wantree end.
Shit happens. I'd guess you don't really know the amount of pressure
phone support puts a person under, especially when more often than not
the problem IS something the user has done, not a (rare) network
fault. While it may be frustrating if it happens to you, all you can
really do is be very firm in staling why you think it's a network
problem. Ask to be put through to a senior support person.
When people ring me for support about 95% of the time it's something
they've done themselves, not a hardware fault. It's much more
productive to go through some standard diagnostic stuff first rather
than assuming the computer is faulty. Sure, it may turn out that the
computer has a hardware fault, but more often than not it's just an
unplugged cord or errant program.
If you are *certain* there is a problem with the ISP end then make
sure you are very insistent about it to the support office and tell
them what you've already checked. Make them test the equipment. (Just
make sure you are correct before pushing the matter, otherwise you'll
look pretty stupid :))
Zac
Bill Cullen
> When people ring me for support about 95% of the time it's something
> they've done themselves, not a hardware fault. It's much more
> productive to go through some standard diagnostic stuff first rather
> than assuming the computer is faulty. Sure, it may turn out that the
> computer has a hardware fault, but more often than not it's just an
> unplugged cord or errant program.
I work as a UNIX sysadm and support PC's and networks for a
living so I'm not a newbie when it comes to diagnosing problems
with my internet connection. I'd put the calls I tend to make
into three categories (although I usually don't know which
of the first two categories the call falls into until after
the call):
1. Some service is unavailable at Wantree or
2. I've stuffed something up at my end after changing something
3. Trying to dial-in from some other location and need the
phone number and DNS server addresses
I guess the above might seem obvious but when a call turns out
to be from category 1 the support guys (and I haven't had a girl
yet - does that say something about this business? most of the
women seem to go into programming) already know about the
problem.
When it's not from cat 1 or 3 then in every case its been because
I stuffed something up (ie. somehow changed the username on
my dialup connection and then couldn't figure out how why I
couldn't connect).
Having supported users in a corporate environment it's
amazing how often a user will report a problem and swear
until they are blue in the face that they haven't changed
anything when they have.
So a rule of thumb for tech support based on my calls would be:
If [ we know about any problems at out end ]
then
acknowledge the problem and promise to restore service ASAP
else
run the checklist to see what the luser at the other end has
stuffed up
fi
I image almost all of the calls they get from others would
be similar to the calls from me.
I guess that's why tech support guys have newsgroups such as
alt.tech-support.recovery, read the BOFH and dream of the
ultimate LART.
Note that I have excluded hardware issues (which are obviously
a problem at the client) and modem problems (which are usually
because of bad lines, other equipment on the users line
or dodgy modems - people selling winmodems should be gaoled
IMHO).
Bill.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Cullen, ENFP, bi...@wantree.com.au, Perth, Western Australia
Life's too important to take seriously.
=====================================================================
Mark Haselden
> I guess the above might seem obvious but when a call turns out
> to be from category 1 the support guys (and I haven't had a girl
> yet - does that say something about this business? most of the
> women seem to go into programming) already know about the
> problem.
Although, if you call for support now, and get the merged
iiNet/Wantree support desk, you're far more likely to get
a woman answering your call. For the record, Wantree had 1
female support tech out of around 9 or so total. iiNet has
many out of around erm.. many total :)
Cheers
Mark (INTP)
Paul Raj Khangure
: Shit happens. I'd guess you don't really know the amount of pressure
: phone support puts a person under, especially when more often than not
: the problem IS something the user has done, not a (rare) network
: fault. While it may be frustrating if it happens to you, all you can
: really do is be very firm in staling why you think it's a network
: problem. Ask to be put through to a senior support person.
That's my general procedure when dealing with support staff in any
industry.
Get as much info as possible before I call, state my issue clearly to
the support person, with all the background info, and then ask
questions.
If the answer isn't satisfactory, or is contradictory, then I press for
further information / explanation. eg "Ok, I see how that could cause
it, but shouldn't X also be affected?"
Assuming a satisfactory answer isn't received, I'll keep asking
questions until the support officer admits they don't know or aren't
sure. At which stage I'll request to speak to a next level support
person, etc.
Paul Raj Khangure
--
I stayed up all last night playing poker with tarot cards.
I got a full house and four people died. - Stephen Wright.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Zac Charlesworth
Jan 2000 16:08:31 +0800 a mysterious being known only as Sean Hannan
>seen so many times in this ng. Generally a lot of these are directed
>towards you Zac, but I am sure you already knew that! (sic) :) ]
:)
>We do, just the hard part is getting the to actually check it without
>taking the attitude: "Well you say you've checked it, are you sure you
>checked it correctly?"
Yeah, that's a very annoying problem. If I ever get confronted with a
support person like that I usually either hang up and ring again or
ask to be transferred to a second level support person. (And wear
myself out telling them I'm SURE that they can't help me.)
I think the most important thing is to stick on the line and if the
support person isn't listening to you then ask to be transferred.
(Tell them they're not listening to you, you're annoyed and want to
talk to the support supervisor. That'll make them listen).
Alternatively, work on your MM impressions and threaten to dock their
pay :)
>P.S: Still have not received the "promised" return phone call from
>Wantree support from last Friday.
Well then I'd be complaining severely about it. I'm not sure if Glen
is still the poor soul in charge of Support, but if he is then
complain to him. Everything is logged and tracked(usually). If he;s
busy though don't expect a reply quickly.
Zac
(Or you could just strap explosives to yourself and walk into the
building :))
Paul Raj Khangure
: (Or you could just strap explosives to yourself and walk into the
: building :))
Yeah.
We've moved to level 18, so just go up the middle lifts, walk into the
reception, and detonate.
Sean Hannan
> >Wantree support from last Friday.
>
> Well then I'd be complaining severely about it. I'm not sure if Glen
> is still the poor soul in charge of Support, but if he is then
> complain to him. Everything is logged and tracked(usually). If he;s
> busy though don't expect a reply quickly.
Might have to do that. I don't mind if they are busy. At least if they
say "We are busy right now and it may be x hours before we can get back
to you", rather than - "We'll call you back <click>"
> (Or you could just strap explosives to yourself and walk into the
> building :))
Now all I need to do is find those explosives.
Woodster