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Geoff,Thanks for your input. If the desire to move forward with this exists and constructive action is being planned/taken in the absence of any motion, I'm willing to hold off on introducing a motion, if you think that's a better approach.I like your vision of a shop with lots of "products" from which to choose (similar to my dream of LP conventions with hundreds or thousands of vendor booths). To me that's not marketing, but actual *content* or *substance*, which from the donor's point of view is much better than marketing. Having a framework that allows all levels of LP affiliates to show their projects to prospective donors, and having donations go directly to the affiliates without the LNC ever touching the money, both sound excellent.Adding an edit/control function to prevent affiliates from asking for money for unlibertarian projects seems to me unnecessary however. That is not to say this I would be unconcerned by such a project proposal -- I would be very concerned. However, it would merely be a *symptom* of a greater problem, namely the insufficient understanding of, and/or dedication to, libertarian beliefs which would cause someone in the LP to propose such a project in the first place. If other Libertarians were to see someone's name attached to a fundraising proposal to raise money for something that goes against our principles (and I do think names should be attached to the proposals), this could facilitate a number of other useful things happening:• Leaders at the national and state level could make inquiries about what was going on at that affiliate• Particular topics could be identified on which a need exists for more/better internal education ("inreach"), perhaps leading to articles in LP News, website blog posts, etc.• LP members might think twice before selecting a person behind a dubious project as a national delegate or party leader, supporting him or her as a candidate, etc.• Occasionally, a reappraisal of our position or stance on a topic might occur -- a proposal might turn out to be more in synch with libertarian principles than it appeared at first blushAlternately, an edit/control mechanism could be built in as a crowdsourced function rather than imposed as a unilateral top-down decision -- projects receiving a certain number or percentage of negative votes from site visitors could be removed or at least made less visible (e.g. moved to the bottom of the project listings). I believe acting as direct censors tends to lead to bitter disputes and dissatisfaction over censorship which do not serve the LP's interests, and that such heavy-handed control should generally be avoided except to the extent it's necessary for the very survival and sustainability of our organization as a libertarian party. Most of the time I think we're better off letting "the market" handle it.Until we develop something like this in-house, what do folks think about listing LP fundraising projects on existing crowdfunding websites like Kickstarter.com, GoGetFunding.com, or IndieGoGo.com, and linking to those projects from a donations page on LP.org? Is anyone aware of any existing or previous LP or libertarian projects being hosted on crowdfunding sites? If you have links to such, or can describe how such projects went if they are concluded now, this could be helpful information to have in planning a similar feature for LP.org.If people prefer to host something like this on a freestanding site rather than on LP.org, I have acquired a couple domain names that I think are promising and which I would be willing to donate to the LP for a worthwhile project-based fundraising effort of this sort -- CrowdfundFreedom.com, and CrowdfundLiberty.com . If that does not materialize, I'm also open to working with others to develop one of these sites as an independent effort, for-profit or otherwise. I could imagine such a site serving as a portal through which to donate to all manner of pro-freedom projects and causes.Love & Liberty,((( starchild )))At-Large Representative, Libertarian National CommitteeOn Aug 27, 2012, at 10:02 AM, Geoffrey Neale wrote:Yes - I have a lot of suggestions, and I won't go into all of them.
First, I'd like to state for the record that I've been talking about this in
an "ad hoc" manner for a very long time, but my vision might very well
exceed what others have thought of.
I see a "fundraising central" kind of solution that would allow donors to go
to a single place, and see all of the activities going on at national, at
states, at counties, and decide how they want to give their money. In other
words, if a "customer" goes to a "shop" and sees lots of things to buy, the
chances that they will spend more is significantly more likely. It's just
marketing.
I would like to see a framework that would support all levels of LP
affiliates, but we would have to set up some expectations of appropriate
behavior for all, and perhaps some kind of edit/control function. After
all, we cannot let just anyone ask for money for anything they want, if the
appeal is for something that violates our Bylaws or principles.
Also, we have to consider both FEC and IRS implications. While there are no
FEC restrictions on us sending money to affiliates, there are restrictions
on whether or not we can accept money from the affiliates. Also, if we were
to "channel" funds into the LNC, and then out to the affiliates, we WILL
have to consider that there are maximum donations that we can take in a
calendar year. I'd prefer a way to "channel" the donations directly to the
affiliate, without us ever touching the money. Also, with the IRS, if we
charge a fee for providing a service that is taken out of a donation, we may
very well be subject to having to pay tax on unrelated business income.
Even if we didn't have to pay tax, we might have other bookkeeping
implications I am unaware of.
In short, I strongly favor working out a plan for this, and would like to
see it launched with the entire LP in mind, because I do not think it is
that problematic to do so. I also think this could be so valuable to all of
us.
That said, I am totally opposed to trying to "craft" this with a mail ballot
at this time, because there are so many possible implications that we have
not worked out. I also am not inclined to dump a "good idea" on staff given
their workload at this time. I do not know what this will cost, and who
will bear that cost. I can see getting the IT Committee involved with this.
I can also see getting the overhead for this covered under the Affiliate
Support Committee. There must be other possibilities as well, but this is
not currently budgeted, and we don't even know the costs.
Let's have a more well-rounded plan before we talk about motions, okay?
Geoffrey Neale
Chair
Libertarian Party
PS: An investor that provides their own money towards a venture is commonly
known as an "angel". I have already purchased (on behalf of the LP)
www.libertarianangels.com and .org. I cannot communicate strongly enough
that this is something I am excited about, and will advocate and work
towards.
-----Original Message-----
From: lnc-discu...@hq.lp.org [mailto:lnc-discu...@hq.lp.org]
On Behalf Of Starchild
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 9:09 PM
To: lnc-d...@hq.lp.org
Cc: grassrootsl...@yahoogroups.com; Mark Hilgenberg
Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Small Projects motion
The general concept is definitely something I think is important in
terms of improving our fundraising practices and the amount of money they
bring in, and I'm inclined to make a motion along these lines.
Before I do so, does anyone have any suggested edits that you think
would improve the language Utah vice chair Mark Hilgenberg offers below?
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
On Aug 24, 2012, at 9:53 AM, travelli...@gmail.com wrote:Forwarded to LNC for consideration.-paulieOn Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Mark <hi...@yahoo.com> wrote:As opposed to trying to get LNC consensus on what projects to fund, whynot just create an open source list for projects from anyone. The LP could
provide the listing on the website and process the fund raising in exchange
for a fee to the LP if the project funded is not from the LP.This type of system is how crowd funding and other sites work. It is veryLibertarian IMHO.Here is my quick and dirty, needs editing motion."The LNC will promptly undertake a project-targeted fund raising websitepage similar to Crowd funding to generate money for LP projects such as
Facebook and other internet advertising campaigns on the theme "Vote
Libertarian!" This page will also allow other affiliates, groups,
individuals and companies the opportunity to promote their activities and
raise donations.In exchange for this service, non-LP projects will pay a fee of 10% of themoney raised to the LP for establishing the webpage and donation system and
the processing of the donations."Mark HilgenbergVice ChairLibertarian Party of UtahNothing new below, included only for context:--- In LNCDiscu...@yahoogroups.com, Starchild <sfdreamer@...> wrote:Begin forwarded message:From: travellingcircus@...Date: August 21, 2012 9:09:40 AM PDTTo: region1rep@..., lnc-discuss@...Subject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Draft motions for LNC:Reply-To: lnc-discuss@...I'm hoping that we get project fundraising started ASAP and Norm has agood explanation of how and why it works below.As for the specific projects that George proposes, you can of coursesubstitute other projects if and when someone introduces the motion(s) and
debate their relative merits, and I hope to see some other ideas introduced
for those.-paulie 415-690-6352
On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Norm Olsen region1rep@... wrote:With regard to item 1):This is an excellent strategy. That is, plan and implement smallprojects successfully, regularly, and then brag about the success. I have
used this strategy in other organizations successfully. So regular that
there is an annual plan which produces small projects scheduled round
Liberty News publications, which are followed up by a fund raising effort;
all schedule for maximum effect as much as 12 months in advance.The important thing is to achieve something, and then tell the wholeworld about. It is next to impossible to grow an organization where the only
thing it seems to do is beg for money. When our Monday messages, or our
Liberty News' habitually announce the successful completion of a project or
effort, regardless of how small, building membership and monthly pledges
becomes so much easier.Frankly, I disagree with the "small" projects suggested; I have inmind others that I (of course :>) think would be better. However, since the
suggested projects are small, there will not be a big effort against them
(one of the side benefits of this approach) and LNC approval is much more
likely, perhaps not even required. Therefore, at least something will get
accomplished.I am very much in favor of this approach: Regularly achieve an"accomplishment", regardless of how small, and then brag the hell out of it
in preparation for the next "accomplishment". After a while, fund raising
for the bigger projects will become easier and achieving larger and more
meaningful "accomplishments" will become a habit.With regard to item 2: I will considering introducing a motionconcerning Oregon.With regard to item 3(?J): I am still thinking about it; thanks forthe prod.Norm--Norman T OlsenRegional Representative, Region ILibertarian National Committee7931 S Broadway, PMB 102Littleton, Colorado 80122-2710303-277-9967Norman.Olsen@..."First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fightyou, then you win." -- GandhiFrom: lnc-discuss-bounces@... [mailto:lnc-discuss-bounces@...] OnBehalf Of travellingcircus@...Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 6:06 AMTo: George Phillies; lnc-discuss@...Cc: StarchildSubject: Re: [Lnc-discuss] Draft motions for LNC:I've asked people on the public lists for some time to come up withideas in the form of motions for things that the LNC is allowed to do which
it should do. Here's the only response so far.1) The LNC and staff shall undertake short-term projects, likely to bevisible to the membership, fundable and funded as projects, to demonstrate
that we can do politics effectively. In particular:1) The LNC will promptly undertake project-targeted fundraising togenerate money for facebook and other internet advertising campaigns on the
theme "Vote Libertarian!", targeting young voters, and targeting issues that
other parties are avoiding, including ending all foreign wars, ending the
war on drugs, and ending internet and phone wiretapping.2) The LNC will soon undertake project-based fundraising to republishkey brochures in foreign languages corresponding to recent large-scale
immigration, including Spanish, Mandarin, Russian, standard Hindi in
Devanagari script, Hmong, and Vietnamese.3) The LNC will soon undertake project-based fundraising to supportcreating Libertarian Party affiliates in U.S. Associated Commonwealths and
Territories that do not currently have affiliates.4) The LNC will promptly undertake project-based fundraising to offerexternal support, e.g., advertising, for Libertarian Senatorial and
Congressional candidates who meet objective standards, in particular (1)
they are FEC filing, (2) they have an active web site and social media
presence, and (3) they are identifiably doing legitimate fundraising or are
self-funding.In all cases, at least 75% of all money raised for a project will bespent on that project.[p: We may wish to produce key brochures in English as well. Whatwe have now are outdated brochures from the 1990s citing outdatedfacts and statistics from that time. ][p: I am strongly in favor of project based fundraising ingeneral. I'm not sure whether these are the exact projects I wouldpropose first - I'd have to think of a few others, which I will dolater if this discussion goes anywhere]From the same person:2) In order to demonstrate to the membership that the LNC supports itsown Bylaws, the LNC will promptly take necessary action to validate the LP
Judicial Committee affirmation that the LP of Oregon is the group chaired by
Wes Wagner. In particular, it will cease to support (as by providing
publicity or internet services) the so-called Libertairan State Leadership
Confernece, until such time as that organization accepts Wagner and group as
the legiitmate party organization.[p: I believe the author means Libertarian State LeadershipAlliance]Would any of the voting members like to introduce either or both ofthese motions in either original or modified form?Paulie 415-690-6352_______________________________________________Lnc-discuss mailing listLnc-discuss@...http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-discuss_hq.lp.org